destruction of america

[gh0stwerx76]

America first is NOT fascism. Liberal leadership, media and the current educational system has been highly successful at convincing people who don't understand how the world works that being at the mercy of imported goods and wares (oil food textiles raw materials) is the answer while simultaneously suppressing the FACT that a nation with a bill of rights and a well thought out and implemented constitution leaves NO Opportunity  for fascism to succeed. As a capitalist republic we MUST produce and export afore mentioned items or what you are left with is high gas prices, low wages, and a huge reliance on bloated government to support more and more people. This is the actual path to fascism. Am I wrong? Anyone notice that in the last 2 years we've been under a government that has the house senate and president and what have we seen? Governmental mandates, an outright attack on the first and second amendments , reliance on our foes to meet our needs and no opportunities for the poorer classes to ever become independently comfortable. But somehow trump is the fascist? ALL HAIL KING BIDEN AND QUEEN PELOSI for they know what's best for us all and your opinions should they contrast them will be deemed mis/dis and you will be swiftly dealt with. This is TYRANNY and the death of democracy. If this is the kind of thing people want, there are plenty of places in the world they can go to live that life. Its is encouraged to do so as anyone who would try to change our great nation to be what we are not, by very definition, is a domestic enemy and if this continues the divide will inevitably lead to another civil war. shameful that there are people who finished basic education in America don't know these simple truths. 

[Jesse C.]

[paradime]

1 hour ago, gh0stwerx76 said:

America first is NOT fascism. Liberal leadership, media and the current educational system has been highly successful at convincing people who don't understand how the world works that being at the mercy of imported goods and wares (oil food textiles raw materials) is the answer while simultaneously suppressing the FACT that a nation with a bill of rights and a well thought out and implemented constitution leaves NO Opportunity  for fascism to succeed. As a capitalist republic we MUST produce and export afore mentioned items or what you are left with is high gas prices, low wages, and a huge reliance on bloated government to support more and more people. This is the actual path to fascism. Am I wrong? Anyone notice that in the last 2 years we've been under a government that has the house senate and president and what have we seen? Governmental mandates, an outright attack on the first and second amendments , reliance on our foes to meet our needs and no opportunities for the poorer classes to ever become independently comfortable. But somehow trump is the fascist? ALL HAIL KING BIDEN AND QUEEN PELOSI for they know what's best for us all and your opinions should they contrast them will be deemed mis/dis and you will be swiftly dealt with. This is TYRANNY and the death of democracy. If this is the kind of thing people want, there are plenty of places in the world they can go to live that life. Its is encouraged to do so as anyone who would try to change our great nation to be what we are not, by very definition, is a domestic enemy and if this continues the divide will inevitably lead to another civil war. shameful that there are people who finished basic education in America don't know these simple truths. 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not here to play left right patty cake.  It's astonishing how every attempts I've made to illustrate the futility of bias shit L vs R rhetoric, the harder the Destruction crew fights for division. I live in the Bay Area ultra Den stronghold so I'm surrounded by the equally pointless lib version of futile bias shit rhetoric. The whole F'n thing reminds me of Ideocracy. Unfortunately it's not funny because this BIAS SHIT is destroying the country and no one has the self awareness to realize their shit stinks. Both sides jumped off the "United States" highway and took the road of good intentions. The finger pointing reality is SO fucking sad.

[datzenmike]

Lets just agree that the American empire is in decline. Having agreed to this everything now makes a lot more sense.

[Ooph!]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not here to play left right patty cake.  It's astonishing how every attempts I've made to illustrate the futility of bias shit L vs R rhetoric, the harder the Destruction crew fights for division. I live in the Bay Area ultra Den stronghold so I'm surrounded by the equally pointless lib version of futile bias shit rhetoric. The whole F'n thing reminds me of Ideocracy. Unfortunately it's not funny because this BIAS SHIT is destroying the country and no one has the self awareness to realize their shit stinks. Both sides jumped off the "United States" highway and took the road of good intentions. The finger pointing reality is SO fucking sad.

 

Okay let's hear your solutions

[paradime]

4 minutes ago, Ooph! said:

 

Okay let's hear your solutions

 

I think this country would be in a much better place if EVERYONE stoped relying on MSNM bias shit for blaming the "other side" for what's wrong, if people voted their conscience rather than the party line, and started relying on their own values and beliefs to navigate their actions locally. I remember when our US government was functional before the Great "BS" Divide.

[datzenmike]

I think their values and beliefs are already way too fucked up and the damage of NSNM is too ingrained. Have to disagree that functionality was lost way before the "Great Divide". You would never withstand a WW2 today. People just are not going to sacrifice like they did back then. The US is at perpetual war (about a half dozen years not at war since WW2 and constantly since about '82 and all of this century) and hard to believe, but it wasn't always that way. The military is using money that would be better spent on infrastructure, education, health care.. just about anything BUT the military. 

 

Agree that a hundred years ago, maybe a little less, people voted what was best for the country, (I would call that sacrifice) now it's what's best for them! 

[john510]

2 hours ago, paradime said:

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not here to play left right patty cake.  It's astonishing how every attempts I've made to illustrate the futility of bias shit L vs R rhetoric, the harder the Destruction crew fights for division. I live in the Bay Area ultra Den stronghold so I'm surrounded by the equally pointless lib version of futile bias shit rhetoric. The whole F'n thing reminds me of Ideocracy. Unfortunately it's not funny because this BIAS SHIT is destroying the country and no one has the self awareness to realize their shit stinks. Both sides jumped off the "United States" highway and took the road of good intentions. The finger pointing reality is SO fucking sad.

There's a lot more to it than bias.Bias is what the media practices to get their way.People are the victim.Some fall for it,some are wise enough to see through it.When a particular party creates policy that could potentially hurt Americans a finger should be pointed at them.Don't care who does it,wrong is wrong when it comes to putting America first.Now my bias will show again when i make the claim that one party seems more interested in helping and protecting non citizens (among many other things) while ignoring those that are.LOL.Is that bias or wanting what's best for the country i live in ? 

[paradime]

As my Iowa conservative Dad would say "Own your bias Ron, but always be aware of it." He also taught me that personal biases are part of what forms our sense of what's good or bad, right or wrong. Bias shit rhetoric on the other hand is what our "news" media uses to form opinion rather than inform it.

 

Trust me John, idiot liberals believe just as strongly that idiot conservatives create policies that harm Americans. They also point a finger, and neither thinks their BS stinks. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on anything, only trying to raise awareness of the game being played and the futility of pointing fingers at each other. For instance "We need to start putting America first" vs "There is no US without a strong global community" On the surface both are feel good slogans with valid pros and cons. They're also BS political rhetoric meant to form opinion rather than inform it. Both slogans push buttons that create the equal and opposite reaction I'm describing.

 

So what's the point of playing the big divide game and who benefits? 

[thisismatt]

🤗🤗🤗

[john510]

7 hours ago, paradime said:

As my Iowa conservative Dad would say "Own your bias Ron, but always be aware of it." He also taught me that personal biases are part of what forms our sense of what's good or bad, right or wrong. Bias shit rhetoric on the other hand is what our "news" media uses to form opinion rather than inform it.

 

Trust me John, idiot liberals believe just as strongly that idiot conservatives create policies that harm Americans. They also point a finger, and neither thinks their BS stinks. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on anything, only trying to raise awareness of the game being played and the futility of pointing fingers at each other. For instance "We need to start putting America first" vs "There is no US without a strong global community" On the surface both are feel good slogans with valid pros and cons. They're also BS political rhetoric meant to form opinion rather than inform it. Both slogans push buttons that create the equal and opposite reaction I'm describing.

 

So what's the point of playing the big divide game and who benefits? 

I'll ask what Republican policies in recent years have hurt the working American citizen.Name them please.As far as your last question goes,ask the media why.Imagine the media reporting truth or even something close to it without an obvious bias towards one side of politics.Doing that would definitely change this country and help stop dividing us.Of course there will be some that would refuse to believe the reporting as truth.Trump was reported on as a terrible,horrible person for years (and still is) yet this country was a better one whether or not anybody will admit it.Now look at the mess we're in and Biden rarely if ever gets called out on anything.When he does it's a few days of negativity and then it's gone and forgotten.

[datzenmike]

I think that if the media changed it will still take generations to heal the damage.

[john510]

36 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I think that if the media changed it will still take generations to heal the damage.

Maybe but they did a damn fine job of influencing an election in just a few months.

[paradime]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

I think that if the media changed it will still take generations to heal the damage.

Agreed given the current I , me, my perspective. Political myopia is curable, but America has to want to see beyond its own nose.

[jbirds510]

Until the federal government goes on a diet Americans will suffer. The bigger it grows..the deeper the roots. There is a reason you don't get taught civics in public k-12 anymore. That should have been the first warning sign everyone seemed to overlook. Sadly most Americans have absolutely ZERO understanding of how the government works or what each branch’s job even is..they watch the news and act like they understand but the very moment you initiate a conversation their ignorance hits you in the face like a blast furnace door flying open. The reality is until ignorant people learn the system will worsen.

Edited May 15, 2022 by jbirds510

[paradime]

THIS 👆

[datzenmike]

I'm getting a government job. Here if you are a government employee there are only two way to be terminated. One is conviction of a crime, (I was told only murder) the other is treason.

[Ooph!]

17 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I'm getting a government job. Here if you are a government employee there are only two way to be terminated. One is conviction of a crime, (I was told only murder) the other is treason.

 

Nah you wont get fired for that, in California Angela Davis was a participant in the murder of 4 people and was hired by the University of California Los Angeles and then at UC Santa Cruz. A Communist Marxist activist she purchased guns 2 days before a courtroom kidnapping, she ran from the law but was found and was later set free by the courts and remained a professor.

 To top all that off the Left wing terrorist group Weather Underground ( Bill Ayers Who helped launch Barack Obama's senate career ) bombed the Marin County courthouse in retaliation.

 So truthfully the only crime you would be fired for ( as a federal contractor I was actually told this ) is not filling out your time card properly.

[frankendat]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:48 PM, paradime said:

Whether you value it or not, Fascism has been studied by historians, sociology, economics, social psychology, philosophy, and political science for nearly a century. It is a denialist falsehood that all of them carried a leftist agenda. Based on extensive historical record, Fascism has been defined as far-right authoritarianism, hyper ethno-nationalism, suppression of freedom for "other" minorities, dictatorial social structure, tight control over thought and education, strong regimentation of social norms, and based on nostalgia for a mythic past.

I believe a stumbling block has been identified.  Perhaps, parties can agree " Fascism has been defined as far-right authoritarianism, hyper ethno-nationalism, suppression of freedom for "other" minorities, dictatorial social structure, tight control over thought and education, strong regimentation of social norms, and based on nostalgia for a mythic past. (I understand some academics apply that last bit, to the definition, but it is silly and redundant. I would rather not continue on this point, but asserting unqualified pejoratives, often derails post intention. To justify the former slander, I assert, while Hitler is a well known fascist, neither Hitler nor the Nazi party were the originators of fascism. Further, some fascist proponents engaged in derivations of liberalism (left)as opposed the better known fascist derivations of conservatism (right.)

To complete this concept, I will appeal to a  commonly held understanding, that I lack time  to cite, in hopes its truth will be accepted. The reality that beliefs, even foundations of what is the "political left" and what is the "political right" change over time. There are many examples of the phenomena, first to come to mind is that in the early United States, democrats (left) were concentrated in the South and were the Confederate slave owners, vs present day where more African Americans vote Democrat.

The definition, provided for fascism "has been" acceptable, because Hitler was a simple and easy example. My contention is while Hitler embraced the definition provided and is considered "far-right", as you dig into the history of fascism, examples of "far left" policies forced via authoritarianism, suppression of freedom for "others", dictatorial social structure, tight control over thought and education, strong regimentation of social norms.

Therefore, either the term fascism be dismissed, be retained and referenced only in the study of history, or modified, removing  "left" and "right". In lieu of left and right, the tenants to different methods of government will be studied. Elimination of this terminology confliction would restore congeniality, to spirited debate. Bastardized and easily gaslit identifiers, like "left" and "right" are prejudiced and ineffective.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[thisismatt]

FaLsE eQuIvAlEnCy

[paradime]

6 hours ago, frankendat said:

I believe a stumbling block has been identified.  Perhaps, parties can agree " Fascism has been defined as far-right authoritarianism, hyper ethno-nationalism, suppression of freedom for "other" minorities, dictatorial social structure, tight control over thought and education, strong regimentation of social norms, and based on nostalgia for a mythic past. (I understand some academics apply that last bit, to the definition, but it is silly and redundant. I would rather not continue on this point, but asserting unqualified pejoratives, often derails post intention. To justify the former slander, I assert, while Hitler is a well known fascist, neither Hitler nor the Nazi party were the originators of fascism. Further, some fascist proponents engaged in derivations of liberalism (left)as opposed the better known fascist derivations of conservatism (right.)

To complete this concept, I will appeal to a  commonly held understanding, that I lack time  to cite, in hopes its truth will be accepted. The reality that beliefs, even foundations of what is the "political left" and what is the "political right" change over time. There are many examples of the phenomena, first to come to mind is that in the early United States, democrats (left) were concentrated in the South and were the Confederate slave owners, vs present day where more African Americans vote Democrat.

The definition, provided for fascism "has been" acceptable, because Hitler was a simple and easy example. My contention is while Hitler embraced the definition provided and is considered "far-right", as you dig into the history of fascism, examples of "far left" policies forced via authoritarianism, suppression of freedom for "others", dictatorial social structure, tight control over thought and education, strong regimentation of social norms.

Therefore, either the term fascism be dismissed, be retained and referenced only in the study of history, or modified, removing  "left" and "right". In lieu of left and right, the tenants to different methods of government will be studied. Elimination of this terminology confliction would restore congeniality, to spirited debate. Bastardized and easily gaslit identifiers, like "left" and "right" are prejudiced and ineffective.

 

Interesting observation as always. 

 

The origins of the political "left and right" were referring to the seating positions of post French Revolution 18th century parliament, and even then left meant liberal and right meant conservative. I think today's heated political prejudice is far more complicated than these labels being used to condescendingly describe and gaslight one and other. Although I see your point, I fear any attempt to redefine the meaning and or use of these words would accomplish nothing more than to open a new can of warms.

 

It's accepted that extreme left ie Communism/Socialism, and extreme right ie Fascism share aspects of rigid societal control, however the two ideological extremes are mutually exclusive like up and down.

 

During the North/South divide leading to the Civil War, Republicans were Northern liberal, and Democrats were Southern conservative. With the post war industrial revolution, appealing to economic growth and prosperity "liberal Republicans" adopted pro business laissez faire free market policies, fought labor reform/unions, and passed prohibition. Appealing to the dispossessed, more and more  "conservative Democrats" adopted pro labor reform, social acceptance, and greater wealth distribution policies which was instrumental in attracting blue collar voters. Lines were blurred and eventually the two parties changed their attractive left right spots to what we have today. 

 

It's accepted that in 1919 after WWI Benito Mussolini came up with the term “fascism” for his national superiority far right movement. In 1923 Hitler took il Duce's ball and ran with it. Meanwhile back East Euro, far left Vladimir Lenin took Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and ran with it, and (possibly compensating for a far smaller penis) Hirohito had his own Empiricist militarism, nationalism and totalitarianism ball. We know the outcome of the all out party those guys threw.

 

I see a danger in either side redefining the meaning or use of these historical terms because its also a way of redefining history to reenforce and better suit a political bias. It's also accepted that historical "objectivism" is often compromised in favor of the victor. 

 

[a.d._510_n_ok]

[datzenmike]

The take away is, about all we can do is impotently bitch about the way things are. The few that think they are above all the bullshit and really see what the fuck is going on are basically helpless to change anything anyway, which manifests itself in more bitching about it. I stated this hundreds of pages ago: "Oh? You know, the more I think about it the more I think you're right! I was wrong in my narrow faulty beliefs and I see now that you are correct.".... said no one EVER. Nothing changes. The enlightened and the dullards ride together on the ever faster turd circling the bowl.

[john510]

16 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

The take away is, about all we can do is impotently bitch about the way things are. The few that think they are above all the bullshit and really see what the fuck is going on are basically helpless to change anything anyway, which manifests itself in more bitching about it. I stated this hundreds of pages ago: "Oh? You know, the more I think about it the more I think you're right! I was wrong in my narrow faulty beliefs and I see now that you are correct.".... said no one EVER. Nothing changes. The enlightened and the dullards ride together on the ever faster turd circling the bowl.

I'll admit i was wrong about a hot topic,gun control.I was always in the "gun control,ban assault style gun camp" Not anymore,buy that shit up,stock up on ammo,enjoy.After what i saw with the rioting and zero effort to stop it from the Democrats (and i point them out because that shit was in their cities) while they were offered help from a Republican President that was berated for even suggesting some law and order.If the Government won't help the good citizens i guess the citizens will have to help themselves.My mind was changed ! I was wrong and i'll admit it.Hell i was wrong about Biden,figured i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and roll with it.Thought his campaign rhetoric was just that.He'd get elected and stab all of his supporters in the back.I was so wrong because i had no idea how bad he could possibly screw things up.Now can i get a Trump hater to admit that Trump actually did a decent job ? I seriously doubt it.