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1 hour ago, john510 said:

You're saying Government policies don't have an effect on oil prices ? I guess you're right.What was i thinking when i believed Newsom's latest gas tax hike increased the cost of a gallon by .12 cents ? Or that underground holding tank fee of .02 cents on every gallon.It's simply just supply and demand.Those great prices we had under Trump were all just coincidence.Biden gets elected and within 2 months we're paying a dollar more,more coincidence.And from the other post ? when did gas almost double in price while Trump was still in office ? How did i miss that ? I fill up a tank twice a week.

 

Seriously, this is your position? Or are you still trying to irritate liberals?

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, paradime said:

All cars could run for free if they had a nuclear reactor in the tank.

 

That would definitely make fender benders a bit more interesting.

Ford_Nucleon.jpg

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17 hours ago, datzenmike said:

On the internet you can find what ever proof you are looking for. Getting others to believe your truth, well, that's another matter. It's basically a waste of time to think that you can change another's  mind or position with argument, even logical argument. We believe what we believe. Change of belief moves at a glacier pace, there is no eureka moment unless your position is already precarious. Who waltzes through life conscious of their precarious beliefs? When our beliefs are questioned we hold on to them even tighter. My beliefs in a lot of things has been sorely shaken in the last 4 or 5 years. Truth, I'm sure is theoretically out there, but a great evil has plastered over it with bullshit to such a depth that for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist except as a theory.    

Wise beyond his years 👏... I have argued until I've been blue in the face with all of the supporting facts and information feeling in my heart that I'm 100% in the right and I know all the answers and no one I have ever been in an argument with has cared, it takes a very special person to be swayed by someone else and just immediately go " ah ok yeah you're right and I am wrong" especially with this political value and economic stuff, it takes years to change your thought process with multiple influences... I mean damn you can use ratsun and datsuns as an example.. how many arguments are there for best bang for the buck performance mods in a b210 or whatever chassis, few guys go "get a ka" couple guys go "just get a l20B" couple guys go "just build a a14 its lighter" .... but the crazy thing is you guys have been reading arguments and similar threads from each other for years and you are still all set in your ways of whatever you like or think is right... but no one is really ever totally wrong there  are half truths to everything and you can validate your truth by searching the right words... I feel like we can learn so much from datsuns 😁

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8 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

Since you are attributing the last pres to cheap gas I guess you will attribute the current pres to the current stock market gains.

https://www.thebalance.com/dow-jones-closing-history-top-highs-and-lows-since-1929-3306174

I guess we could even though the numbers don't make sense.Now when it crashes it will be because of Trump,just watch.What is it Biden has done to encourage the market gains ? His policies and ideas should be hurting it.

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1 hour ago, john510 said:

.What is it Biden has done to encourage the market gains ? His policies and ideas should be hurting it.

I will agree with you there. I think the market is overvalued. My point was presidents don't have any sway over oil prices. They don't have much sway over the stockmarket either. The previous president claimed he did and the gullible believed him. We have an empty paper bag for a president now and things just kind of trumble along. Oil is adjusting for supply and demand worldwide.

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Agreed^ 

 

It would appear the only rational explanation is that presidents are not in the WH to weald power, but to take attention away from it.

 

Like actors, candidates are selected based on image appeal, personality, and their ability to deliver superficial tag lines as though they matter. Then corporate interest super packs spend $100s of millions so we'll elect their cast member for a lead role in the clown show known as "government for and by the corporation."

 

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to work I go...

Edited by paradime
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On 10/6/2021 at 5:14 PM, paradime said:

Okay, explain how that has anything to do with the price of gas at the pump today.

 

Well, as we no longer can produce the capacity that we use, and a bunch of it is still being exported, no doubt due to previous contracts, and now that we have to import oil again. And given that hardly any ships can dock anywhere to offload said oil, and OPEC sticking it to us again, as oil prices keep going up. 

 

Gee, I don't know. 

 

Oh yeah, and more people are back on the road, trying to get back to work and travel, and Climate Change is once again hot on the agenda, and................

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9 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

I will agree with you there. I think the market is overvalued. My point was presidents don't have any sway over oil prices. They don't have much sway over the stockmarket either. The previous president claimed he did and the gullible believed him. We have an empty paper bag for a president now and things just kind of trumble along. Oil is adjusting for supply and demand worldwide.

So that corporate tax cut from Trump didn't help the market ? It sure appeared that it did.

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On 10/7/2021 at 1:31 AM, Dav said:

Heres a not true story you’ll never read - “Real estate in all those fracking states (not a slight) has collapsed, house prices are down 85% from last year, all because all the oily covered young men who used to frack with each other no longer do (break my back mountain reference) because the prez has shut down fracking.”

The problem is that I have direct (in person) experience that is contrary to the your statement. Real estate prices did drop and there is less fracking in the mountains of Utah, after Biden. But, the bottom didn't drop out of it, as has been the case, when regulations hit it in the past. First, by "drop", real estate prices in the oil "boom towns" went from grossly over valued to just very over valued. When I was there, a spot for my trailer, with electricity (which was not included)  and a sewer hookup (which was included) was $800 a month (with electric and heat(propane) around $900, I super insulated my trailer and my monthly costs were the lowest in the park, so said the park owner). I felt lucky to get a spot, in the packed RV  park. I understand now, the spots are $500 and there isn't waiting lists at most parks. In my mind, even $500 for a strip of earth with a sewer hookup a garden house and a 220v outlet, in the middle of nowhere and less than 10ft from other trailers, is getting skinned. The fact that it cost me near a grand, was rape.

There are an ass load of other reasons why fracking has slowed, as well as, an ass load of reasons why real estate hasn't bottomed out and none of it means shit, and I don't give a shit.

If you want/need the moral high ground, take it. I'll be the first to say fracking is awful for the environment, but unless you're pro nuke there are dark days ahead. As for my understanding of the USA oil production numbers, (information I cannot confirm and have not witnessed) in terms of gasoline, because of environmental regulations it is more cost efficient to export oil from the USA to be refined and then imported back. While that is understandable, I do not have a source confirming and doubt I will take time to research. Americans, which I am proudly one, in general, don't want to know how the "sausage" is made, or even how we get meat to eat. America has devolved from the land of rugged individualists to groups of dainty, pretty, princesses that cry and eschew the savagery that provided their opportunities.   

I love America and have done a little traveling. Other countries have worked out somethings better and somethings worse, but experience cemented my belief that the United States of America is the best in the world and I will fight organizations, politicians, gangs and individuals who oppose.

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1 hour ago, frankendat said:

The problem is that I have direct (in person) experience that is contrary to the your statement. Real estate prices did drop and there is less fracking in the mountains of Utah, after Biden. But, the bottom didn't drop out of it, as has been the case, when regulations hit it in the past. First, by "drop", real estate prices in the oil "boom towns" went from grossly over valued to just very over valued. When I was there, a spot for my trailer, with electricity (which was not included)  and a sewer hookup (which was included) was $800 a month (with electric and heat(propane) around $900, I super insulated my trailer and my monthly costs were the lowest in the park, so said the park owner). I felt lucky to get a spot, in the packed RV  park. I understand now, the spots are $500 and there isn't waiting lists at most parks. In my mind, even $500 for a strip of earth with a sewer hookup a garden house and a 220v outlet, in the middle of nowhere and less than 10ft from other trailers, is getting skinned. The fact that it cost me near a grand, was rape.

There are an ass load of other reasons why fracking has slowed, as well as, an ass load of reasons why real estate hasn't bottomed out and none of it means shit, and I don't give a shit.

If you want/need the moral high ground, take it. I'll be the first to say fracking is awful for the environment, but unless you're pro nuke there are dark days ahead. As for my understanding of the USA oil production numbers, (information I cannot confirm and have not witnessed) in terms of gasoline, because of environmental regulations it is more cost efficient to export oil from the USA to be refined and then imported back. While that is understandable, I do not have a source confirming and doubt I will take time to research. Americans, which I am proudly one, in general, don't want to know how the "sausage" is made, or even how we get meat to eat. America has devolved from the land of rugged individualists to groups of dainty, pretty, princesses that cry and eschew the savagery that provided their opportunities.   

I love America and have done a little traveling. Other countries have worked out somethings better and somethings worse, but experience cemented my belief that the United States of America is the best in the world and I will fight organizations, politicians, gangs and individuals who oppose.

First you’d have have to jump the hurdle that fracking is about oil n not natural gas.  I was corrected by another poster that oil by fracking has only been about 7 B barrels of oil in 70 years or something like that (no source provided for that statement - but ok).  Then you’d have to jump over the hurdle of the prez actually having made a policy that limited fracking n caused oil prices to jump.  Perhaps I missed that policy in my daily reading.

 

I’m sorry you had to live in Utah, my condolences.

 

I wrote nothing about being against fracking n don’t need the moral high ground.

 

The point by person who started thread was the prez was responsible for higher gas prices n gave three reasons why.  I attempted to show those reasons were false arguments.  We seem to agree that supply n demand determines gas prices more than other tings.  I blamed it on producers (oil price not high enough to support more production (prolly due to competition)) n traders (making money where they will).

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8 hours ago, Jesse C. said:

 

Well, as we no longer can produce the capacity that we use, and a bunch of it is still being exported, no doubt due to previous contracts, and now that we have to import oil again. And given that hardly any ships can dock anywhere to offload said oil, and OPEC sticking it to us again, as oil prices keep going up. 

 

Gee, I don't know. 

 

Oh yeah, and more people are back on the road, trying to get back to work and travel, and Climate Change is once again hot on the agenda, and................

 

The quote you used I was asking you to explain your assertion that gas prices were high today because Biden "stopped drilling permits, halted fracking and shut down Keystone." All debunked with references to published data from multiple sources.

 

Again without references you through out more baseless claims that 1. we consume more than we produce, 2. we're bound to contracts that force us to export our oil, 3. now we have to import oil again, 4. hardly any oil tankers can offload anywhere, and 5. OPEC is sticking it to us. 

 

1. The US produces more than twice as much crude oil than we consume. 

2. Much of the crude oil we import is refined here into an excess of light crude. US oil producers, refineries, midstream pipeline companies, ports, and shipping fleets are making HUGE profit moving that light crude to European and Asian markets, where they can get higher a price. 

3. Out necessity or otherwise, the US has always imported oil since 1947. Trump's admin continued it as a from of strategic leverage in the market.

4. In the past 7.5 years before CV-19, the US had expanded it's tanker port capacity by 35%. If you're referring to the bottleneck of tankers off California, do your homework. That was due to a price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia along with huge decline in demand from COVID-19. As a result, US oil prices actually dropped to negative levels for the first time in history. West Coast refineries slashed production and onshore facilities filled to capacity.

5, In 1977 OPEC was the source of 71% of US petroleum imports. Today it's 7%. If anyone is sticking it to us, it's our own oil companies.

 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php

https://www.aogr.com/magazine/cover-story/port-pipeline-upgrades-accelerate-rapid-growth-in-u.s-crude-oil-exports

https://grist.org/energy/oil-demand-plunge-coronavirus-tankers-california-coast/

Edited by paradime
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1 hour ago, Dav said:

First you’d have have to jump the hurdle that fracking is about oil n not natural gas.  I was corrected by another poster that oil by fracking has only been about 7 B barrels of oil in 70 years or something like that (no source provided for that statement - but ok).  

 

Although I named the source, I actually went back and added a link to the reference shortly after posting it.

 

All true. However, according to the Independent Petroleum Association of America, since 1947 (84 yr) fracking has produced a grand total of 7 billion barrels of oil, and 600 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. So it's safe to say "Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline."

https://www.ipaa.org/fracking/

Edited yesterday at 04:15 PM by paradime

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4 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

Although I named the source, I actually went back and added a link to the reference shortly after posting it.

 

 

All true. However, according to the Independent Petroleum Association of America, since 1947 (84 yr) fracking has produced a grand total of 7 billion barrels of oil, and 600 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. So it's safe to say "Fracking is done for natural gas, and has (in all practical terms) nothing to do with the price of gasoline."

https://www.ipaa.org/fracking/

Edited yesterday at 04:15 PM by paradime

You seem to think I think fracking has some affect on oil prices, when I do not. I was debunking someone else’s claim that the prez n his halting of fracking has caused oil prices to go up.  Are you stuck on it being 84 years versus 70?

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6 minutes ago, Dav said:

You seem to think I think fracking has some affect on oil prices, when I do not. I was debunking someone else’s claim that the prez n his halting of fracking has caused oil prices to go up.  Are you stuck on it being 84 years versus 70?

 

No Dav, I didn't assume you were, I was backing your point. Not stuck on the number, just I did the math.

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20 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

No Dav, I didn't assume you were, I was backing your point. Not stuck on the number, just I did the math.

Ok - it seemed like it was Opposite Day.

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1 hour ago, paradime said:

 

The quote you used I was asking you to explain your assertion that gas prices were high today because Biden "stopped drilling permits, halted fracking and shut down Keystone." All debunked with references to published data from multiple sources.

 

Again without references you through out more baseless claims that 1. we consume more than we produce, 2. we're bound to contracts that force us to export our oil, 3. now we have to import oil again, 4. hardly any oil tankers can offload anywhere, and 5. OPEC is sticking it to us. 

 

1. The US produces more than twice as much crude oil than we consume. 

2. Much of the crude oil we import is refined here into an excess of light crude. US oil producers, refineries, midstream pipeline companies, ports, and shipping fleets are making HUGE profit moving that light crude to European and Asian markets, where they can get higher a price. 

3. Out necessity or otherwise, the US has always imported oil since 1947. Trump's admin continued it as a from of strategic leverage in the market.

4. In the past 7.5 years before CV-19, the US had expanded it's tanker port capacity by 35%. If you're referring to the bottleneck of tankers off California, do your homework. That was due to a price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia along with huge decline in demand from COVID-19. As a result, US oil prices actually dropped to negative levels for the first time in history. West Coast refineries slashed production and onshore facilities filled to capacity.

5, In 1977 OPEC was the source of 71% of US petroleum imports. Today it's 7%. If anyone is sticking it to us, it's our own oil companies.

 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php

https://www.aogr.com/magazine/cover-story/port-pipeline-upgrades-accelerate-rapid-growth-in-u.s-crude-oil-exports

https://grist.org/energy/oil-demand-plunge-coronavirus-tankers-california-coast/

 

Obviously it is all based on my own observations, assumptions and point of view, I am not an expert and I am not spending all day doing the research. You want to be the expert and shoot it all down, go for it. 

 

All I know is that since Biden took over, things are fucked all over. Simple as that.

 

And as for attacking each other, maybe you see it that way, I just see it as a bunch of guys letting it loose in the garage after hours. 

 

You mileage may vary. 

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4 hours ago, john510 said:

So that corporate tax cut from Trump didn't help the market ? It sure appeared that it did.

The corporate tax cut was good. The other crap wasn't. Part of the issue was letting the wildcatters run free to try to drill themselves to profitability and venting not even flaring natural gas and methane severely environmentally destructive and unsustainable for short term gains.  The pissing match with OPEC  led to the collapse of the us oil patch in which I worked for in the gulf of mexico. OPEC was running that show and Trump was in over his head but that's foreign affairs of which he had no clue  but I get that. The funny thing is when I  think of the most destructive actions to my personal income or quality of life was from Obama. 

1. His promotion of the junk home loans which ended up devaluing  properties my wife and I owned free and clear.

2. Eliminating the inexpensive health insurance we had because they were "skinny plans" forcing our health insurance to skyrocket.

 

We have a continuous chain of shitweasels from either party and I doubt we will have anybody worth a shit running anytime soon. Just waiting for the technology to clone Reagan.

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