destruction of america

[datzenmike]

On 5/6/2026 at 3:39 PM, datzenmike said:

 

$1.90 seems about right. I haven't bought gas for my Datsun since 2020. Travelled to Edmonton at least twice since then but when travelling buying gas is more convenience rather than hunting around for cheapest. Alberta gas is way cheaper.

 

Tomorrow I may bike to Cumberland and on the way back I do pass a gas station in town and will update. It did spike to about $2.05 maybe a month ago when this nonsense began.

 

Well it was $2.149 a liter or $9.77 a gallon. 

[frankendat]

19 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

You are supporting a guy that is making billions in crypto after catering to the crypto cartel, tax breaks for billionaires, raising our national debt at record levels, tarriffs that you and I have to pay and starting a war. All of this while you piss and moan about your tax bill? Trump and his buddies are enriching themselves at obscene levels while the average Joe is worried about paying his mortgage, insurance, taxes and hoping to have enough to buy groceries at the end of the week.

Yes. Politicians are corrupt, all politicians. I do not agree with tariffs, but could be persuaded that sacrifices, e.g. paying more for certain items etc, like was the case in the world wars, IF there was a plan for the United States to prosper from the sacrifice. As for starting wars, same. I am the below average Joe worried about paying his mortgage, insurance, taxes and hoping to have enough to buy groceries at the end of the week.
The Democrats are the snake in the garden, they promise help with mortgage, free insurance, lower taxes (for below average Joes) and coupons for groceries each week. The cost of this help will be subservience, ideological alliance and forced submission. The property tax misanthropy that is the yoke on my neck is an excellent example of miscarriage of justice so extreme (The tax has been supported and increased by both parties) it should be acknowledged by every Idahoan, if not every American. What you dismiss and degrade to "pissing" and "moaning" is the canary in the coal mine, the early casualties in a war coming to your door. I remember you trust the government, you are happy to declare your firearms and put your name on the list. When "they" decide that you no longer "need" a firearm, or a more likely first step, you should pay an annual "fee" or "tax" on the firearms that you own-to go to a fund to help victims of "gun violence" of course (and other stuff) All will be fine, as long as you can pay, until the next item or freedom it is decided you no longer "need". You will "piss and moan" when what is taken or forced from you by tax or confiscation is something, which to you held value. And your numbers will be small, or you might be alone, because while it happened to others, you dismissed it as piss and a moan.   

Edited May 8 by frankendat

[frankendat]

7 hours ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Gotta take your word for it. I was doing nationwide hotshots (hauling trailer rims) Thursday-Monday & keeping a full semester of college Tuesday-Wednesday. 48 hours without sleep was pretty common. Hallucinations resulting were not fun. I remember mustard based BBQ sandwiches (three meat blend, weird) in the Ozarks being 2 for $1 & everyone around Tupelo, Mississippi going out of their way to tell me they were kin to Elvis. Also dolphins chasing my truck as I exited the underwater portion of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Virginia. After 1997 I dedicated my CDL to straight trucks & local jobs. No regrets. 

I've been there, hauling frak water and oil. There was a big safety push after a bunch of accidents in the early 2000's, so it was rare I went into the 40's without sleep. Most days you were scheduled for 14, rarely did only 14, not including the over an hour commute, that I could do in my Sentra in 30 min. If I kept it at 70-80 in the gravel and 100+ on pavement (Sentra was the GXE but wouldn't do much more on the hilly roads) If I didn't shower, ate in the car or truck and didn't have anything to do, e.g. get gas, go to the store, stop at the post office, pay rent etc. and I went right to sleep, then 7hrs until I was back in the saddle. Most days it was 4hrs, unless I was needed to pull a double. Like you said, double shifts were fairly common, but I was part of the "reformed" industry, so a double 36hrs was common 40hrs notsomuch-off road, temps from -40F to 100F, snow, rain, hail, mud, full chains often, driving truck/pup or double trailer if you were a sadist. I did not like double trailer. Hallucinations, didn't bother, my misspent youth provided how to handle, but the occasional lost time messed with my mind. Showing up to a location, understanding it was a 30 min drive, at least, but there I am and I couldn't tell you how I got there. 
It is not a life. Days blur into weeks, months pass, then years. I'm lucky the trucking industry, especially in oil, are evil fuckwads, because if they would have treated their employees, halfway decent, I would have stayed. I hate change and to get me to leave is really hard. In hindsight, I am glad that I left and should have left much earlier. But, the money kept me solvent after the tech bubble and the construction bubble burst. 
 

[bottomwatcher]

7 hours ago, frankendat said:

Yes. Politicians are corrupt, all politicians. I do not agree with tariffs, but could be persuaded that sacrifices, e.g. paying more for certain items etc, like was the case in the world wars, IF there was a plan for the United States to prosper from the sacrifice. As for starting wars, same. I am the below average Joe worried about paying his mortgage, insurance, taxes and hoping to have enough to buy groceries at the end of the week.
The Democrats are the snake in the garden, they promise help with mortgage, free insurance, lower taxes (for below average Joes) and coupons for groceries each week. The cost of this help will be subservience, ideological alliance and forced submission. The property tax misanthropy that is the yoke on my neck is an excellent example of miscarriage of justice so extreme (The tax has been supported and increased by both parties) it should be acknowledged by every Idahoan, if not every American. What you dismiss and degrade to "pissing" and "moaning" is the canary in the coal mine, the early casualties in a war coming to your door. I remember you trust the government, you are happy to declare your firearms and put your name on the list. When "they" decide that you no longer "need" a firearm, or a more likely first step, you should pay an annual "fee" or "tax" on the firearms that you own-to go to a fund to help victims of "gun violence" of course (and other stuff) All will be fine, as long as you can pay, until the next item or freedom it is decided you no longer "need". You will "piss and moan" when what is taken or forced from you by tax or confiscation is something, which to you held value. And your numbers will be small, or you might be alone, because while it happened to others, you dismissed it as piss and a moan.   

You have been brainwashed by the NRA. I am sure you have them so look back at thier magazine from 30 plus years ago. Same thing every issue. Government is going to take your guns, read this story about a good guy shooting a bad guy and by the way send us more money because we are the only thing standing between the Government and your guns! Did I get the plot right? If things keep going like they are you will get to keep your guns but will be living in the back of your truck down by the river.

[datzenmike]

Pretty much the way I see it also. Hasn't changed in my lifetime. 

[a.d._510_n_ok]

8 hours ago, frankendat said:

I've been there, hauling frak water and oil. There was a big safety push after a bunch of accidents in the early 2000's, so it was rare I went into the 40's without sleep. Most days you were scheduled for 14, rarely did only 14, not including the over an hour commute, that I could do in my Sentra in 30 min. If I kept it at 70-80 in the gravel and 100+ on pavement (Sentra was the GXE but wouldn't do much more on the hilly roads) If I didn't shower, ate in the car or truck and didn't have anything to do, e.g. get gas, go to the store, stop at the post office, pay rent etc. and I went right to sleep, then 7hrs until I was back in the saddle. Most days it was 4hrs, unless I was needed to pull a double. Like you said, double shifts were fairly common, but I was part of the "reformed" industry, so a double 36hrs was common 40hrs notsomuch-off road, temps from -40F to 100F, snow, rain, hail, mud, full chains often, driving truck/pup or double trailer if you were a sadist. I did not like double trailer. Hallucinations, didn't bother, my misspent youth provided how to handle, but the occasional lost time messed with my mind. Showing up to a location, understanding it was a 30 min drive, at least, but there I am and I couldn't tell you how I got there. 
It is not a life. Days blur into weeks, months pass, then years. I'm lucky the trucking industry, especially in oil, are evil fuckwads, because if they would have treated their employees, halfway decent, I would have stayed. I hate change and to get me to leave is really hard. In hindsight, I am glad that I left and should have left much earlier. But, the money kept me solvent after the tech bubble and the construction bubble burst. 
 

Freaking saltwater! i caught a month of that in 2017. Said they'd train me during daylight then switch me to nights when they cut me loose. Instead they trained me at night. I got an offer to drive a bus for military daycares & went from 6pm-8am to 730am to 330pm. Hauling saltwater is like bull hauling - it takes a certain breed & you have to be into it. Never hauled cattle btw but a buddy of mine said bull haulers come in two categories - those who use speed to haul cattle & those who haul cattle so they can use speed. I got my cdl in 1994, went to hauling trash, then OTR, then propane bobtail then tapped my GI Bill for college. One semester the college said I owed 'em $20. I told 'em VA would cover it, they said you can't enroll until ***YOU*** pay for it soooooo to teach them a lesson I went and applied to an independent concrete company for $6.50 an hour (in 2000). They stuck me in a double stick 1971 Mack mixer with a chain drive bowl. Only gauge that worked on it was the mechanical oil pressure gauge Stayed there until May of 2001 when picking up slack in the afternoon every day for the boss' son who was drunk by noon (while driving a mixer) got old so I jumped to another mixer company called Stokes for a whopping $8 an hour. Loved that company but one psycho dispatcher made me walk away. Naturally they fired him a few months after I left. Eventually I made my way to a company called Dolese. They own ready mix plants in Oklahoma & Louisiana but ship rock from their quarries all over the USA (yellow rail cars marked DOLESE). Said they'd start me at $10.49 an hour. I told the interviewer he was a goddamned liar because no son of a bitch in Chickasha, Oklahoma was making $10.49 an hour, $9 is max anywhere! He said he'd put it in writing for me & did. Days staring at midnight & running to 7pm were very common especially if we were doing a Super Walmart or distribution center or a windmill farm or a gas substation or a bridge deck or a hog farm or......when I left they cut me a profit sharing check & a 401k check. Their profit sharing was based on a 40 hour work week. I never worked a week less than 50. I physically worked there 10 & 1/2 years but because of their 40 hour rule I was entitled to 13 years of profit sharing. Paid cash for a house, bought my '55 Chevy & stuck the rest in an IRA, now it's double what they sent me down the road with. About two years ago I started getting nasty letters from a materials company called Vulcan saying I was about to lose my 401k. Never worked for Vulcan, figured it was a scam. They got persistent enough I asked my IRA guy for advice. He did some research, said they were legit. Called Vulcan, figured out they had purchased Stokes (company I had quit in 2004) & had been maintaining a 401k I had drained in 2003 for 21 years but had replenished itself then tripled. That was a pleasant surprise that went into the IRA. Got hired by Halliburton in '22 to move trucks then got thrown into a paint booth (learned to love it) then in '24 my VA disability pay got to be more than the Halliburton $ so I went to the house. Military daycare wants me back (no thank you), Halliburton ex coworkers keep dropping hints (no thank you), local school reaaaaaallllly needs bus drivers (no thank you), wife & kids say, "Stay the fuck home! You're done!". 😆 

[frankendat]

10 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

You have been brainwashed by the NRA. I am sure you have them so look back at thier magazine from 30 plus years ago. Same thing every issue. Government is going to take your guns, read this story about a good guy shooting a bad guy and by the way send us more money because we are the only thing standing between the Government and your guns! Did I get the plot right? If things keep going like they are you will get to keep your guns but will be living in the back of your truck down by the river.

I have them from 50 plus years ago and up until the late 60's, early 70's "Gun grabbing" wasn't an issue, even early 70's. Then it started to show, when you could no longer buy firearms mail order and places that sold firearms had to be licensed. The 1968 Gun Control Act started the fall.  
Which means in my lifetime, I have witnessed a sustained, prolonged, political and social attack on the 2nd Amendment and the ability for individuals to own firearms. It is not hyperbole. Look at the record of Congress, see how many new gun regulations are proposed and some even passed in the current Congress. Rhode Island and a couple other States are attempting to pass "assault" rifle bans and they are doing it just to be assholes. There is a chance the bans will stick, but it is slim, but the bans will stick if they are unopposed. Who can pay to fight these city governments? Not me, not any normal individual. The NRA. 
True there are times some Democrat pushes legislation through that is so stupid and such an affront to the Constitution, I wonder if the whole thing is funding theater.  Democrat brings bill to outlaw every firearm except muskets, Republican brings bill to force any and every confirmed pregnant woman to be housed and monitored in special unborn safety centers. Where they are "guided" to act in the best interests of the child. Pro Gun, Pro Choice and Pro Constitution folks dump their hard earned into the machine and the Democrat and the Republican share a wink. 
But, I believe no matter how solid the evidence, you do not wish to understand. I can site pages of quoted politician anti-gun rhetoric, historical examples, evidence from the news, distortion, prejudice and misinformation pushed by the media (for decades) anecdotal evidence, but still you would remain unbothered if a government employee asks you to list the firearms and their serial numbers that you own. 
Even taking what the NRA promotes with a grain of salt, which I do and advocate, it is undeniable that both the current political parties are attempting to grab all the control they possibly can and attempting to maintain political dominance over a long period of time, if not indefinitely, without regard for the will of the people.
Since my property is now worth money, taking it from me is a very bi-partisan issue, so living in a truck down by the river is a strong possibility. I wouldn't want to live down there unarmed. 
There was another forum on Idaho property tax and I am shocked am amazed at the political cooperation when it comes to stealing from the few to fund the many. NOBODY likes tax, but EVERYBODY loves a SOMEBODY tax, as long as the SOMEBODY taxed isn't them.

[frankendat]

9 hours ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Freaking saltwater! i caught a month of that in 2017. Said they'd train me during daylight then switch me to nights when they cut me loose. Instead they trained me at night. I got an offer to drive a bus for military daycares & went from 6pm-8am to 730am to 330pm. Hauling saltwater is like bull hauling - it takes a certain breed & you have to be into it. Never hauled cattle btw but a buddy of mine said bull haulers come in two categories - those who use speed to haul cattle & those who haul cattle so they can use speed. I got my cdl in 1994, went to hauling trash, then OTR, then propane bobtail then tapped my GI Bill for college. One semester the college said I owed 'em $20. I told 'em VA would cover it, they said you can't enroll until ***YOU*** pay for it soooooo to teach them a lesson I went and applied to an independent concrete company for $6.50 an hour (in 2000). They stuck me in a double stick 1971 Mack mixer with a chain drive bowl. Only gauge that worked on it was the mechanical oil pressure gauge Stayed there until May of 2001 when picking up slack in the afternoon every day for the boss' son who was drunk by noon (while driving a mixer) got old so I jumped to another mixer company called Stokes for a whopping $8 an hour. Loved that company but one psycho dispatcher made me walk away. Naturally they fired him a few months after I left. Eventually I made my way to a company called Dolese. They own ready mix plants in Oklahoma & Louisiana but ship rock from their quarries all over the USA (yellow rail cars marked DOLESE). Said they'd start me at $10.49 an hour. I told the interviewer he was a goddamned liar because no son of a bitch in Chickasha, Oklahoma was making $10.49 an hour, $9 is max anywhere! He said he'd put it in writing for me & did. Days staring at midnight & running to 7pm were very common especially if we were doing a Super Walmart or distribution center or a windmill farm or a gas substation or a bridge deck or a hog farm or......when I left they cut me a profit sharing check & a 401k check. Their profit sharing was based on a 40 hour work week. I never worked a week less than 50. I physically worked there 10 & 1/2 years but because of their 40 hour rule I was entitled to 13 years of profit sharing. Paid cash for a house, bought my '55 Chevy & stuck the rest in an IRA, now it's double what they sent me down the road with. About two years ago I started getting nasty letters from a materials company called Vulcan saying I was about to lose my 401k. Never worked for Vulcan, figured it was a scam. They got persistent enough I asked my IRA guy for advice. He did some research, said they were legit. Called Vulcan, figured out they had purchased Stokes (company I had quit in 2004) & had been maintaining a 401k I had drained in 2003 for 21 years but had replenished itself then tripled. That was a pleasant surprise that went into the IRA. Got hired by Halliburton in '22 to move trucks then got thrown into a paint booth (learned to love it) then in '24 my VA disability pay got to be more than the Halliburton $ so I went to the house. Military daycare wants me back (no thank you), Halliburton ex coworkers keep dropping hints (no thank you), local school reaaaaaallllly needs bus drivers (no thank you), wife & kids say, "Stay the fuck home! You're done!". 😆 

I am not sure if the frak water had salt in it or not, it might have, it had every other kind of crap in it, usually poison. Water haulers are the bitches of the field, there is so much turnover the old hands refuse to learn your name for months. People asked how you stay awake, alone, miles away from any other person, in the pitch black. Actually, it was easy, between the monster drinks and coming close to dying at least once or twice a night, I never had trouble staying awake. Corporate would come in preaching safety and how they care about drivers yada, yada, yada, then they would hand me a route, a 4wd road, in the dark up and down and around some mountains. They would say they were out there watching and monitoring progress via GPS and max speed was 25 mph on these roads and you would get charged for damaging the truck if you were reckless. I would look the route map and it was 30 miles round trip. You would be called in and asked to write a statement addressing your time and ways in which you could be more efficient on future routes if your drive time was over an hour. I do not claim to be a master at math, but I called them out on this type of stuff my first day. It was not the best way to make a first impression and it didn't change anything. After three months of hell and many after shift explanation writing sessions (which ate into sleep time) I was at the end of my rope. There were a number of veterans working there and learning that I served, one pulled me aside and squared me away. "Shut the fuck up and get it done." Old school military style. After that I always made time and didn't have to stay and write. I also cut back on monster drinks, because driving those dirt roads at night, at the speeds I was driving was enough to keep my eyeballs wide open. Sliding sideways on the ice, spinning the truck  360 on a hill that transitioned quickly to a corner, if a night with straight truck, I drove it like my old Caddy, fishtailing up mountains with the hammer down, caught air in it once, if truck pup, used the pup as an anchor to keep it on the road going around corners fast, if driving two tanker trailers, then I didn't do shit, white knuckled it all shift (true doubles on those dirt roads scared the hell out of me) Had hazmat, so sometimes hauled oil.
Life is about stories and those few years gave me many. (But none of them positive) Oil is a massive operation and I love the mountains. We were high up and deep in, because of the drilling and such, hunting has been pretty much shut down. I saw more trophy size antelope and mule deer and elk, than I had seen in many, many, years. It was the first time that I had seen a mountain lion in the wild and birds....an incredible amount of birds, every kind you can think of, including bald eagles. 

Edited May 9 by frankendat

[datzenmike]

Why is all the US news on the Iran war filtered through Trump????? Do you actually rely on him or his lap dog Hegseth to tell the truth??? Over 60 days in and he's saying there is a cease fire ongoing while Iran strikes the US navy and the US navy strikes back. Everything out of your mouth is bullshit.

[frankendat]

I haven't followed this Iran thing at all, couldn't tell you when it started, couldn't tell you how it is going. If past performance is indicative of future results, and it usually is, then there is 90% shit talking and mean mugging each other, 5% actual engagement, 1% engagement that puts American soldiers in harms way and 4% drone, jet, helicopter, remote missile and bombing, which kills a bunch of bad and not so bad on the ground and concretes the reasons the bad want to destroy America, turns many not so bad into bad and kills many who really have no idea what is going on. Then we claim victory, spend billions in the region (which somehow only goes to a few people and a number of anti-American groups) and return to do it again in six months to a year. How's my take? I have watched zero, news/podcasts etc. on the subject. 

[datzenmike]

.

 

 

[bottomwatcher]

This is crazy shit Iran makes these just like the Chinese made the videos of Trump during the tarriffs.

Check out this video, "iranian lego cartoons" https://share.google/fLwlgrJpaHHafpCZN

[Smoking Joe]

I’m from the south and I too am sick of the left wing nuts calling me Racist and another name they can create to control people and

mostly politicians. My Dad sponsored Two NASCAR teams in the early 70s when it was still stock car racing. Albeit they weren’t stock cars anymore but they sure weren’t all professionally built to the exact same standards with a fictitious name slapped

on them.  Myself I loved NASCAR back then and was fortunate enough to know a number of the drivers from that era later in life.  I however was

more attracted to Drag Racing and by the grace of God I was fortunate enough to make Professional Drag Racing my career. I retired in 2004 with a pretty successful history of championships and records in the ProModified category.  I say all this because I love America and I love Jesus Christ. And I am sick of the liberal mind attempting to transform this great nation. However I do think Mr Trump has set there agenda back several years and that’s what I voted for wish he could run for another term. 

[datzenmike]

58 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said:

This is crazy shit Iran makes these just like the Chinese made the videos of Trump during the tarriffs.

Check out this video, "iranian lego cartoons" https://share.google/fLwlgrJpaHHafpCZN

 

Give me a break. Lego???? Mine doesn't look like lego. 

 

Is there some fact that is incorrect? Say so, don't blame the messenger. You may be in denial that Trump is a clown and started this shit and is getting his ass handed to him by a 'third world country'.  

[frankendat]

4 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Give me a break. Lego???? Mine doesn't look like lego. 

 

Is there some fact that is incorrect? Say so, don't blame the messenger. You may be in denial that Trump is a clown and started this shit and is getting his ass handed to him by a 'third world country'.  

Speaking of China, according to the internet, your part of Canada where you reside has the highest population of Chinese in all of Canada and the United States. Is that true?

[datzenmike]

For the record, you were talking about the Chinese. I thought the lego shit was home grown Iranian like their drones.

 

Fucked if I know. The old coal town near me had the highest population of Chinese other than Francisco back a hundred years ago. Must be the mainland. Only Chinese hear are in the restaurants. 

[Rustbin]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

For the record, you were talking about the Chinese. I thought the lego shit was home grown Iranian like their drones.

 

Fucked if I know. The old coal town near me had the highest population of Chinese other than Francisco back a hundred years ago. Must be the mainland. Only Chinese hear are in the restaurants. 

 

I think there are more people of Vietnamese and Korean ancestry then Chinese locally these days.  I have noticed a lot of immigrants from Calgary in the last ten years though. 

[bananahamuck]

My middle sons girlfriend is first gen Japanese American and she looks like a short Samoan. My sister ( who throws out "alt-right accusations like it's candy at Halloween) thought she was Korean ..

  Other boys Colombian national  wife, has been called Mexican at least twice in my presence,, so maybe the saying "they all look the same" is true. 

[ratpatrol66]

1 hour ago, bananahamuck said:

My middle sons girlfriend is first gen Japanese American and she looks like a short Samoan. My sister ( who throws out "alt-right accusations like it's candy at Halloween) thought she was Korean ..

  Other boys Colombian national  wife, has been called Mexican at least twice in my presence,, so maybe the saying "they all look the same" is true. 

BRO, total racist undertones there.  

[bananahamuck]

3 hours ago, ratpatrol66 said:

BRO, total racist undertones there.  

 

That was exactly my point . 

[datzenmike]

8 hours ago, Rustbin said:

 

I think there are more people of Vietnamese and Korean ancestry then Chinese locally these days.  I have noticed a lot of immigrants from Calgary in the last ten years though. 

 

I've noticed a lot of Alberta trucks come and go mostly with the economy there. Usually big Dodges with construction company logos on them. Gotta go where the work is.

[datzenmike]

3 hours ago, ratpatrol66 said:

BRO, total racist undertones there.  

 

By that yardstick, I'm worried about my profile picture. 

 

 

[EDM620]

10 hours ago, frankendat said:

Speaking of China, according to the internet, your part of Canada where you reside has the highest population of Chinese in all of Canada and the United States. Is that true?

Possibly true. There was a huge influx of rich Chinese last decade who were investing in property, helped drive the real estate market up past where average person could still afford a mortgage. Foreign ownership laws weren't written to handle the market change and effects are still haunting home buyers.

 

Comparatively, I see way more East Indians throughout the lower mainland than ever before. Seems like they have almost entirely taken over the trucking industry, evidenced by trucks that don't get maintained, terribly lacking in skill, and doubtful they got their license legitimately. I drive for a living and note that as I go east the percentage of Caucasian increases, trucks in better repair, etc. Noticed in a trip to Cali last summer the same pattern in truck stops. Ever notice that gas stations run by East Indians typically have no paper in the pump printer, and the station is probably dirty and itself in poor condition? Their culture seems to be to only do the minimum amount of work required.

 

Semi-related, the East Indians are taking over in the world of the hospitality industry. Noting my above observation, hotel/motel standards are falling.

33 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

I've noticed a lot of Alberta trucks come and go mostly with the economy there. Usually big Dodges with construction company logos on them. Gotta go where the work is.

Indeed. Now if we could just get deep water ports on both ends of the country... every single commodity this nation produces needs that.

[datzenmike]

I was on the mainland years ago in Surrey? delivering and picking up parts and we went out for some lunch. His name was Jason Wong which kind of gives away the ending but slowly I noticed I was the only Oxidental in the room. I didn't notice going there but this was true in the parking lot when we left. 

 

It got weird.

 

[ratpatrol66]

10 hours ago, bananahamuck said:

 

That was exactly my point . 

Wish someone had a pic of you and I sitting on the front bumper of the RatPatrol  in North Vancouver years ago...