LSD/Disc Rear Ends

[Dnatoli]

Which models have rear ends with an LSd(or something similar) and discs? I have a 4-link kit on the way and need to start hunting locally (Houston, TX) for a rear end that has those requirements. Since the rear will be coilover and 4-link I will be cutting off all the factory mounting points, so as long as width is right, I am pretty open.

[datzenmike]

What's it going into because the H-233 from a WD21 Pathfinder is pretty wide.

 

 

 

[Dnatoli]

Well, I'm in the 720 platform and I have an '84 720 in my bio to the left... so likely the '84 720. If it's not too much wider I can likely make it work. Roughly 2"/side should be doable. It is a 2wd as well that will be lower than factory height. 

[Lockleaf]

Yes wd21 axle 92-95 can have disc brakes and lsd.  It's a clutch pack lsd so it can be packed to your breaking torque preference.  It should be 3.5 inches or so wider than 720 axle.  Beyond that you could look for something 80s Toyota?  Or go custom and build what you need.

[Dnatoli]

Perfect! Thank you Lockleaf. So, to clarify, I need to find a 92-95 pathfinder rear end?

[datzenmike]

It's TOO wide if lowering or body will hit. Rim off set will look retarded like a FWD car with lug nuts out past the tire. This thing is a monster, big and heavy, larger than a Ford 9". A Z24 will never spin the tires, you don't need it. Narrow it and do it right.

 

H233 and H-190 axles

 

 

 

 The Pathfinder is a 4 pinion LSD in 4.375 or 4.625.... the only gear options for it.The 3.889 or 4.11crown and pinion from a D21 Hardbody will probably swap from similar years.

My 4.625

[Dnatoli]

Thanks for the input datzenmike. The truck body will be flared, so hitting the body will not be an issue I'm too worried about. I can space out the front to match so it doesn't look wild. It will not have a z24 and nowhere near to stock power levels, so I don't mind the extra weight for an LSD and rear discs. There is very little about my truck that is conventional, so keep that in mind. Once I get it most of the way completed I will be posting a lot more about it on here, I'm sure. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Dnatoli

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but I wouldn't waste the time with a Nissan axle. Compare the parts availability between Nissan and Toyota axles and you may understand where I'm coming from.

 

Toyota Pros

- same 6 lug pattern, but 5 lug pattern used on some 2wd models, if that's your thing

- available in varying widths from 55" to 63"

- R&P gears from 3.70 to 5.71

- aftermarket diff flanges available to accept just about any driveshaft including un-drilled flanges to suit your own requirements

- LSD, Detriot locker, air locker, electric locker, spool, plus cheapo lunchbox lockers all available (LSD is around $500 new)

- plenty of aftermarket (chromoly and 300M) axle shafts from sources like Dutchman and others

- full float possible using mix and match of OEM and aftermarket parts

- rear disc brake kits available from as little as $300 all the way up to $1700 with many options in between

- junkyard availability just about anywhere in the country

 

Nissan Pros

- it's Nissan

That's all I can think of...

Edited April 13, 2020 by Stoffregen Motorsports

[Lockleaf]

Stoff is not wrong.  Gearing is single most difficult thing to overcome on the H233 axle.  But if you want a Nissan axle under there, then yes 92-95 came stock with disc brakes.  I don't believe any other years did.

[Dnatoli]

I have no quarrel with switching to Toyota, and I could happily go with 5 lug. Can you point me in the direction of which model I can pull a rear end from that is LSD and roughly the same width as the factory 720 rear end?

 

That being said though, I have already located a 93 pathfinder rear end at a salvage yard I can get for $175.00 complete and can pick it up as early as tomorrow. But if I can save weight, still have an LSD, roughly same width and run disc brakes in the rear I am all in to bail on this craigslist find. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Dnatoli

[datzenmike]

I put a Toyota SAS in my 620. With 33 you couldn't see it but about 1" wider per side than the rear. What ever that was.

[thisismatt]

3 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but I wouldn't waste the time with a Nissan axle. Compare the parts availability between Nissan and Toyota axles and you may understand where I'm coming from.

 

Toyota Pros

- same 6 lug pattern, but 5 lug pattern used on some 2wd models, if that's your thing

- available in varying widths from 55" to 63"

- R&P gears from 3.70 to 5.71

- aftermarket diff flanges available to accept just about any driveshaft including un-drilled flanges to suit your own requirements

- LSD, Detriot locker, air locker, electric locker, spool, plus cheapo lunchbox lockers all available (LSD is around $500 new)

- plenty of aftermarket (chromoly and 300M) axle shafts from sources like Dutchman and others

- full float possible using mix and match of OEM and aftermarket parts

- rear disc brake kits available from as little as $300 all the way up to $1700 with many options in between

- junkyard availability just about anywhere in the country

 

Nissan Pros

- it's Nissan

That's all I can think of...

 

Do you know of a disc brake swap with parking brake for the 79-84 axles (I think that's the correct range). What I've read is that it's a semi floater and has a bit of run-out so you don't want fixed calipers, but I don't know that for a fact. Ruffstuff sells a repop floating caliper (El Dorado I think), but I don't know of any brackets available for the early Toyota axles

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

20 hours ago, thisismatt said:

 

Do you know of a disc brake swap with parking brake for the 79-84 axles (I think that's the correct range). What I've read is that it's a semi floater and has a bit of run-out so you don't want fixed calipers, but I don't know that for a fact. Ruffstuff sells a repop floating caliper (El Dorado I think), but I don't know of any brackets available for the early Toyota axles

There are only a couple factory disc rear axles from Toyota. They are FJC and new 4Runner rear axles, but are very wide and not much use for the mini truck guys.

 

Rear disc kits are widely available, but as you mention, most of them are not very well thought out. The culprit is the axle wheel bearing. Most of them were not designed for disc brakes and they do have the play that you describe. Therefore, the majority of the rear disc kits out there use a "floating" Chevy style caliper. In truth, that caliper was not designed to float for the purpose of being used with a wobbly bearing, it was designed that way to take up slack as the pads wear. A common problem with this is brake pad drag, which leads to noise and premature pad wear. For general use, this is not the end of the world, as there are hundreds of these conversions in use, but for perfectionists like me,  it's not ideal. 

 

The good disc brake kits available utilize Toyota front axle hubs and spindles and an adapter plate, making them a full float design. There are a couple  brake options when going this route. One is to use a front brake caliper, with four pistons, but no parking brake. Another option is to use a Toyota Supra caliper with parking brake. The best option is the modern 4Runner brake kits designed by my friend Brian Ellinger who owns Front Range Off Road/Diamond Axle. They use a custom milled backing plate and have an integral drum parking brake. The cost is substantial, at nearly $1700 for the conversion.

 

One company who seems to make very nice products is Tundra Racing. They are in Florida and have a variety of rear disc kits available, most of them utilizing all Toyota components. They are also reasonably priced, though I have not had the chance to use any of their kits, so I can't speak firsthand of their quality.

[thisismatt]

10 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

There are only a couple factory disc rear axles from Toyota. They are FJC and new 4Runner rear axles, but are very wide and not much use for the mini truck guys.

 

Rear disc kits are widely available, but as you mention, most of them are not very well thought out. The culprit is the axle wheel bearing. Most of them were not designed for disc brakes and they do have the play that you describe. Therefore, the majority of the rear disc kits out there use a "floating" Chevy style caliper. In truth, that caliper was not designed to float for the purpose of being used with a wobbly bearing, it was designed that way to take up slack as the pads wear. A common problem with this is brake pad drag, which leads to noise and premature pad wear. For general use, this is not the end of the world, as there are hundreds of these conversions in use, but for perfectionists like me,  it's not ideal. 

 

The good disc brake kits available utilize Toyota front axle hubs and spindles and an adapter plate, making them a full float design. There are a couple  brake options when going this route. One is to use a front brake caliper, with four pistons, but no parking brake. Another option is to use a Toyota Supra caliper with parking brake. The best option is the modern 4Runner brake kits designed by my friend Brian Ellinger who owns Front Range Off Road/Diamond Axle. They use a custom milled backing plate and have an integral drum parking brake. The cost is substantial, at nearly $1700 for the conversion.

 

One company who seems to make very nice products is Tundra Racing. They are in Florida and have a variety of rear disc kits available, most of them utilizing all Toyota components. They are also reasonably priced, though I have not had the chance to use any of their kits, so I can't speak firsthand of their quality.

 

Thanks.  That seems to be about what I've read but the info seems really scattered.  Looks like closer to $3k all said and done for a full conversion 😨

[Dnatoli]

Well I found a 1995 pathfinder rear end, complete with discs and all local for $175.00, so I might just roll with that and see how it works out. My experience with cars has always been IRS, so this is more of a learning experience than anything. 

 

To clarify, there is no bolt on rear disc conversion for the factory 720 rear end and no LSD's? 

[datzenmike]

LSD? Not until '89 on the 2wd D21 Hardbody.

BeeBani might have a rear disc conversion for the H-190.

[Dnatoli]

I've heard the name BeeBani, previously. I ordered the rear disc kit on eBay, emailed him and messaged him and never heard anything, wasn't charged and never received anything. Any suggestions on how to reach him? That was end of last summer I did that.

[Dnatoli]

I found this limited slip that works with all H190 open diggs allegedly. May give it a go. I sent an email to the company to verify fitment before ordering.

 

https://www.tractionconcepts.com/Nissan-LSD-kit-Fits-H190-Diffs-p/tcxni9301.htm

 

[wayno]

I believe that used to be called Phantom Grip, I would stay away from that, you will be ripped off.

15 minutes ago, Dnatoli said:

I found this limited slip that works with all H190 open diggs allegedly. May give it a go. I sent an email to the company to verify fitment before ordering.

 

https://www.tractionconcepts.com/Nissan-LSD-kit-Fits-H190-Diffs-p/tcxni9301.htm

 

 

[Dnatoli]

Just now, wayno said:

I believe that used to be called Phantom Grip, I would stay away from that, you will be ripped off.

 

Good to know. What happened to others that ordered it?

[wayno]

I didn't say they did not get the part, it just didn't work, Mike explained how he thinks it is supposed to work in the past, maybe he will chime in.

Search Phantom Grip, I believe they are the same, others suggest that it didn't work also.

Edited April 15, 2020 by wayno

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

That type of device is supposed to put side load on the spider gears with spring pressure between the two blocks. That style has been used in domestic cars before. Ford had a similar setup. They are not a true LSD, but they do work, though not nearly as well as a true limited slip.

[datzenmike]

Phantom Grip I think went under and reincarnated as Traction Concepts... https://www.tractionconcepts.com/  ... Both use a strong spring to force the side gears outward into tight contact with the differential case more or less locking them together. This is certainly NOT what the makers of open differentials intended for their product. Real LSDs use clutch packs designed to grip/slip and last, the heat generated absorbed by the differential fluid and certainly NOT metal to metal contact. If this worked all differentials would have this. It's appeal is by the ignorant that balk at the cost of a $1,000 clutch LSD in their $400 honda and are simply gullible. When it comes to LSDs there is no free lunch. 

 

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/showThread.cgi?forum=Archive-000001&thread=20090219-2-082235&style=printable

[Dnatoli]

Sounds like a horrible option. Well, I am going to just use the factory rear end for now then it seems (roller coaster of a decision) with 4-link and coilovers because I have all of that and drive it for now while I focus on other aspects of this weird build. Can anyone advise me on how to get a hold of Beebani?

[Charlie69]

I have a freind that purchased a bunch of stuff from Beebani and before the sale of the parts Beebani was good at answering his questions after the sale Beebani was not much help.