Lug nut studs/brake drums

[wayno]

Right now don't worry about the rear gearing, I was just wondering.

 

I don't know about the key, we don't have that type of drum on our 320 trucks, that is not something anyone except you have, I would be very careful not to ruin that drum as I have no idea where you would get another one.

If it were my truck I would likely transfer a 320 rear axle under the truck, that way you would have access to brake drums as all the drums are the same thru 1980 something I believe, I personally had never seen a drum like that until you posted the photo, I expect that 1960 truck I looked at also had the same thing but I was not looking at the truck for myself, I took photos of it and posted them on here somewhere, I don't think it sold.

 

If you really want to find out the rear gearing lift the driver or passenger side rear wheel off the ground(only lift one side), mark the tire(I mark the top) and the drive line(I mark the side) where you can see both marks at the same time, put it in neutral and release the e-brake, now turn the wheel two complete turns while counting how many times the drive line turns, if it almost turns 5 turns you would have 4.88 gears, if it turns just over 5 turns you would likely have the 5.13 gears, only one rear tire can be off the ground as the other side should not move, if it moves then you have to start over, so only lift one side off the ground.

[mklotz70]

A lot of vehicles from this era had similar rear axles.  You might type this into google....there seems to be quite a bit of info out there about them for other cars/trucks.  Looks like your best puller uses the studs, but you've already punched too many out. 😞

 

removing rear drum on tapered axle with key

 

Also....from the early '50's to 1960?, Datsun had a deal going with Austin.  You might check into Austin parts and info from around the same year as your truck.  

 

This is just FYI for others that enjoy Datsun history.  This might be standard wiki info, but it's the best write up of Datsun history that I've ever come across.  Please, check it out, enjoy it, but don't comment on it here.  I don't want his thread hijacked.  If that starts to happen, I'll delete this post.   https://www.1aauto.com/datsun-parts/ma/34

 

 

[Charlie69]

Heat the drum red hot around the axle shaft area and then tap on the outer edge of the drum to help loosen before it cools too much.  You should never remove studs before removing drum.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Charlie69

[mklotz70]

In this case, I agree on the studs, but on a typical rear axle, they can be removed to help eliminate some of the rust and surface contact that can be bonding the drum to the axle.  Most of the early advice was given based on the assumption that it was a standard axle, not a tapered axle.

[Rusty Dawg]

Thanks for the insight fellas.  Although I accidentally hit a few studs in, most were broken or missing when I purchased the vehicle unfortunately.  Even though I see smoke coming from behind the drum before tapping on the drum, I don't feel as though I sufficiently heated up the drum.  I use a small hand torch, but should I be using my acetylene torch on it?

 

A friend of mine had mentioned that with stubborn drums he has drilled a hole in them and tapped it.  He then takes a bolt and drives it into the hole thus pushing the drum off of the axle.  I've seen drums that already have such a set up from the factory.

 

Would finding a 320 rear end for sale be fairly easy? 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Rusty Dawg

[Ooph!]

1 hour ago, Rusty Dawg said:

 but should I be using my acetylene torch on it?

 

A friend of mine had mentioned that with stubborn drums he has drilled a hole in them and tapped it.  He then takes a bolt and drives it into the hole thus pushing the drum off of the axle.  I've seen drums that already have such a set up from the factory.

 

 

Yes on the Acetylene with a rosebud tip, you don't want to melt it so stay back and move it around to spread the heat if you have to use a cutting tip.

You don't know whats behind the drum to push against if anything, drilling and tapping a hole would work if you already had the drum off for next time.

[Rusty Dawg]

10-4, thanks Ooph!

[wayno]

I look at that photo of the drum with the 4 studs missing and I am thinking them studs are mounted in the drum, there is no flange on the end of the axle.

Some one likely has an axle, I only have the one under my 1963(1962) truck that I am going to likely remove some day to put a slightly wider axle under my truck, as when I put front disc brakes on my truck it made the front stance wider, so I kept another axle that was a few inches wider to make it look proper in the rear, but I really have no plans to do that anytime soon, and your a long ways away anyway.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

On 4/15/2020 at 9:04 PM, Rusty Dawg said:

 

 

Would it be a foul to push the key inwards on the drum/axle?

Yeah, don't do that.

 

The suggestion of the Austin connection, I think you'd have to as far back as the Austin Seven to see a similar tapered axle.

[Rusty Dawg]

The studs are in fact mounted in the drums.

[Rusty Dawg]

Thanks mklotz70 for the informative, in-depth read about Datsun history.

[Rusty Dawg]

Good evening,

 

I've work on all suggestions, but to no avail and about the only thing I have left to do is in fact drill a hole, tap it and try to push off with a bolt.  

 

The only other thought would be to weld a few studs on the cast iron drums and then try to pull it off with a puller.  I can then grind the studs off afterwards.  I remember my cousin, who was a mechanic, doing this in the 80's when I was just starting to turn wrenches.

[wayno]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:45 AM, Rusty Dawg said:

Nothing here sirs...

 

Does the other side have more studs?

I would suggest rent a large puller that grabs that drum from the back edges in at least 3 places as already suggested, put the center in that dimple on the end of the axle and start cranking away and pounding on the center of the puller like you would a small puller, crank a turn hit the center shaft of the puller, repeat over and over till it comes off.

Also it likely would help to heat the metal right around the axle the drum is mounted on with a real torch(already suggested), you heat the drum not the axle, heat it turn the puller, hit the end of the puller, repeat over and over, heat crank, pound on the center of the puller, you might pound on the outside of the drum also, but not hard enough to damage it, if you destroy it then find a 320 axle.

Personally I would not be drilling holes in the backing plate as that is what holds all the brake stuff in position and I believe a puller would have more power than hitting a punch thru the back side.

You need to either save the parts you have or find a 320 axle, I am doubting you will easily find another drum to replace the one you have, if you had another drum you could cut that one off.

Have you tried removing the other side?

 

[mklotz70]

Any chance you have a fairly big slide hammer?  5-10lb.  Like the ones used for body repair years ago.  I have one from HF, but I don't know if they still sell them.  

 

As an option to the studs being gone......maybe some higher grade "L" bolts...?  Might be possible to put the short end in and rotate it past the bend in the bolt.  If you could get three of those in, you could use a puller that typically mounts to the studs.  The L bolts might work with the slide hammer too.  I'd still use a good bit of heat around the center of the hub.  

 

I'm not sure about the welding....at first it sounded like a great idea, but if it's cast iron instead of cast steel....it won't work well and could ruin the drum.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Welding would probably not work, unless it was a hot weld and let to cool slowly, ie- wrapping in welding blankets. I would get a good puller and try with lots of heat this time.

 

The pics I have seen online show nothing more than a large three finger puller. Good three finger pullers are not super expensive, less than the cost of a 320 axle. Here's one that may be large enough - https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/84963933

 

One safety trick when using a puller like that is to wrap a ratchet strap, large hose clamp (or similar) around the puller so it can't slip off.

 

Re - big slide hammer. I made my own using the head of a broken 20# sledge hammer that I had laying around. Heavy, but works great.

 

Another option would require some fabrication. Have someone cut a large circle out of 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick steel. Drill and tap a hole in the center (or weld a large nut), then drill three holes around the perimeter for the puller fingers. Use a donor puller for the parts. Probably take an hour to make and cost $100 or less.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Stoffregen Motorsports

[Rusty Dawg]

Unfortunately it does not.  I have already tried a puller that grabs the back edges and it ripped the ring that was tacked/pressed on the drum, so in that particular instance I only have about 3/16" between the drum and the backplate to get a puller in there. Doubt that I will find such a device, although I continue to look online.  As for the hole, it was suggested that it be drilled in the drum itself, tapped and then we would screw a bolt in there to push off the axle.  I believe Nissan vehicles along with other manufacturers come this way from the factory now a days.

 

As for the other side, I have not been able to remove that one as well.

[Rusty Dawg]

Thanks for the link Stoffregen and I agree that it is cheaper than a rear end, but I am not sure that those fingers will fit between the drum and backplate which only has around 3/16" to work with. 

 

As for your other option, I am not quite following how that will work.  I've read it 10 times and I'm just not smart enough to wrap my head around that one...LOL!

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The "other option" is basically a large puller that you make yourself using a smaller puller for it's parts. Because you're not likely to find a large enough puller that is affordable.

 

Think a large round plate - about 8" in diameter (or just larger than the drum) with three or four fingers that are held in place through holes around the edge of the plate, and a hardened bolt in the center to push off with. Basically just a home made puller, bigger than most of what you can buy.

 

If you need to, you can bend back the backing plate to better grab the drum. I believe the edge of the backing plate is just a sheetmetal dust guard, at least it is on the 320 and later trucks.

 

Drilling a hole won't likely do anything because there probably isn't anything there to push off of. A flanged axle, yes, there is a large are to push off of, but on a tapered axle, there's just a tapered shaft.  You would be pushing off the backing plate, and that's likely not strong enough to get the job done.

[difrangia]

Rather than make/improvise a lot of stuff and just tear stuff up and bust knuckles, I'd consider dropping the driveshaft and U-Bolts and jerk the rearend out. Take it to a tractor/implement/semi-truck shop and have them dis-assemble it. They most likely have the tools and experience to handle much larger jobs. You could have the rear end laying out on the ground in an hour or two with a six-pack or two for lubrication.

[Rusty Dawg]

Thanks for the suggestion difrangia.  I think I'm going to give it until the weekend and then drop the axle to take in. 

 

As for the backing plate, it's made of steel.  I thought about cutting into it to fit the puller fingers, but I didn't know if it would jeopardize anything.  The drums are 12" and Napa has puller that I can borrow.

 

Thanks for clarifying the question about the axle since I wasn't fully understanding what I had and that drilling a hole for a bolt would not work.  Bottom line is that a puller with heat is the only way to get these off.

[difrangia]

Just remember, anything that you cut into or tear up is not going to be available in spares. You'd be better off to find a 320 rear axle unit or something later and update. When you're slidin' down the road and everybody is grinning and snapping pics, no one but the man upstairs can see the rear axle anyway !!

[Rusty Dawg]

Good point, but I can be stubborn sometimes(always according to the wifey) and although I didn't wind up with the original engine, I like to keep my trucks in their original form as much as possible.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Rusty Dawg

[nicklp]

I'm in Carmichael, CA and I own a 1960 222. I've had the rear drums off with one of those pullers that attach to three studs, then you tighten the puller with a hammer. Mine came off at that point.... If not, you can build up the tension and then smack the end of the puller shaft to send a shock through it. They are on a tapered shaft. I think I would mig another stud or two on there and grind them off later. I'm worried that if you try to grab the edges of that drum you will end up destroying it. Maybe the drop it out and take the whole thing to a shop option is best at this point if you don't like the weld on a stud or two option. Good luck, I'll try to remember to check back tomorrow

[Rusty Dawg]

Thanks nicklp.  I've seen studs welded on a drum for removal and then removed, but being that the drums are cast iron makes it a bit trickier to weld onto them.  Why do you think that grabbing from the edges might destroy the drums?  They seem to be fairly beefy for a 1/4 ton truck.

[nicklp]

I didn't realize they are iron, are you sure? Maybe take a file to them and see what it looks like. But if you're right, you're right. I'm just concerned because of how stuck I've seen other tapered shaft hubs get before (rear end of Triumph TR-6 is that way. Notorious). I kind of like the idea above about L-shaped bolts through the stud holes and trying that with the kind of puller I mentioned. Or maybe you can get enough tension on there by pulling on the edges and heat the hell out of it. Good luck! That should be a 5.13 (41x8) rear end. I have the 222 parts manual.There really is no flange to push against for the drill and tap idea.