Rattle can painting - number of coats of each?

[rosso]

I am not a body shop guy and am trying to keep rust at bay and rattle can paint my 510 wagon project (72 510 wagon prova).

 

How many coats of each layer of paint and how thick are they? I am sanding down to bare metal and sanding out the surface rust then using Gempler's rust converter to neutralize rust in the pits. When I paint what does everyone recommend?

 

For example:

3 wet coats primer

1 dry coat color, two wet coats

3 coats clear

 

This is all from rattle cans and the next piece I am doing is the rear hatch.

Where I am at now...

[john510]

I suggest you don't sand down to bare metal where there isn't rust.That old stock factory paint is tougher than anything new in a rattle can.Leaving the old stuff on would probably protect metal better than new paint and primer.

[rosso]

Thanks, I should have been clearer - I am sanding the rusted areas down as much as possible for the rust and some bare metal around the rust. Where I have red paint or primer showing but no rust I will only sand to scuff the surface.

 

[reza]

I suggest going to harbor freight and buying the 20 dollar spray gun, then go to a automotive paint store and buy a quart of paint with the best color match. You want to choose this out of the industrial color card book, as it is cheapest. These paints will be a single stage and similar to what a datsun was originally painted with. Nissan didn't use a clear coat from the factory, throw some hardener and shoot it. Don't use spray cans, it'll cost the same with worse results. 

Tell the paint tech you have no idea what you are doing and he will spell it out for you, he is hourly and no doubt would like to flex is knowledge on the subject. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by reza

[rosso]

Reza,

So many questions about spray guns it's more than I can handle. - gravity feed, hvlp or lvlp, and multiple tip sizes - some better than others for clear vs color vs primer.

 

Not sure I can deal with it.

 

I did go to a paint store and get paint color matched to car. I took the wiper cowl panel in and had them match that, thought I was good to go (and they could put some in rattle cans for me so I did not have to buy a gun) until they said I needed to clear coat too. Paint was lacquer. I didn't think the original paint was clear coated but what do I know - I'm a newbie.

 

They did mention a two part paint with a button on the bottom of the spray can that you hit to mix a hardener in - I figured then you had to use the whole can at that time. I wanted to paint bits and pieces all over the car at different times and not all at once. True or not?

 

And I have no place for cleaning the gun and dealing with the mess and all the paraphernalia. And then there is the mixing ratios and the mixing cups and the filters etc.....

 

So, do you still recommend buying a gun? I may never paint another car.

 

Harbor freight guns:

https://www.harborfreight.com/painting/paint-sprayers/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-62300.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/32-oz-automotive-siphon-feed-air-spray-gun-69708.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/painting/paint-sprayers/32-oz-heavy-duty-multi-purpose-air-spray-gun-69704.html

 

Thanks, I appreciate your input - I am not a body shop or paint guy.

[MikeRL411]

13 hours ago, rosso said:

Thanks, I should have been clearer - I am sanding the rusted areas down as much as possible for the rust and some bare metal around the rust. Where I have red paint or primer showing but no rust I will only sand to scuff the surface.

 

 

Early Datsuns used Amino Acrylic Enamel paint.  If properly surface prepared, it is a good bond to Polyurethane paint.  Enamel chalks under strong sunlight, Poly doesn't and the inherent gloss looks good.

[pdp8]

21 hours ago, rosso said:

Reza,

So many questions about spray guns it's more than I can handle. - gravity feed, hvlp or lvlp, and multiple tip sizes - some better than others for clear vs color vs primer.

 

Not sure I can deal with it.

There's a lot of territory between a rack full of guns and boxes of spare tips... and a rattle can.  If you bought just one gun you'd still have more ability to control the finished product than a rattle can as it would pay for itself really quickly vs. custom-filled cans.  Do you have an air compressor at least?

One gun: go for the HF 20OZ HVLP gravity feed gun as a mid size gun.  Any tip size between .8 and 1.4 will work better than a can.

 

21 hours ago, rosso said:

 

I did go to a paint store and get paint color matched to car. I took the wiper cowl panel in and had them match that, thought I was good to go (and they could put some in rattle cans for me so I did not have to buy a gun) until they said I needed to clear coat too. Paint was lacquer. I didn't think the original paint was clear coated but what do I know - I'm a newbie.

No, the original wasn't cleared but that was a solvent-based factory-applied (likely baked) paint.  I don't know what you really got pumped into your cans, but there is a good chance it needs the clear because your base doesn't have UV inhibitors and would fade and chalk without something over it.  I prefer a single-stage (no clear) look for old cars, but to each their

own.  You can buy single-stage paints with outstanding UV resistance, but the decent ones aren't cheap.  I'm paying over $75/pint for PPG Concept but you can get pretty good stuff for half that, ore even less with some careful Ebay and CL shopping.

 

Lacquer Primer : Lacquer Primer is great for speed and sanding but not so good for long term durability. Shrinkage, cracking, and bubbling are common long term problems.

Enamel Primers/Sealers : Enamel primers are economical and provide fair sealing/corrosion resistance but can be susceptible to lifting/wrinkling.

Did you put and epoxy primer base down, or at least an etch prime to help with corrosion resistance and improve bonding?

21 hours ago, rosso said:

They did mention a two part paint with a button on the bottom of the spray can that you hit to mix a hardener in - I figured then you had to use the whole can at that time. I wanted to paint bits and pieces all over the car at different times and not all at once. True or not?

 

And I have no place for cleaning the gun and dealing with the mess and all the paraphernalia. And then there is the mixing ratios and the mixing cups and the filters etc.....

 

So, do you still recommend buying a gun? I may never paint another car.

 

Harbor freight guns:

https://www.harborfreight.com/painting/paint-sprayers/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-62300.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/32-oz-automotive-siphon-feed-air-spray-gun-69708.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/painting/paint-sprayers/32-oz-heavy-duty-multi-purpose-air-spray-gun-69704.html

 

Thanks, I appreciate your input - I am not a body shop or paint guy.

Yes, if it's activated paint you have to use it all at once.  You will also do serious harm to your body if you use that stuff without proper gear, at an absolute minimum an organic-vapor respirator, gloves, spray hood, and long sleeves.  A full mask is really better but at least put on some goggles or safety glasses so you don't absorb it through your eyes.

 

It's true, by the time you get a mixing cup, stirrers, strainers, thinner, hardener, reducer, and all the other stuff you really should have it can add up.  I would like to suggest however that if you have a failure in your paint job you could have a return of rust and have to do all the sanding and prep work all over again as well as pay for materials for another paint job.  So sit down for a minute and think about what your time is worth.  Also figure out how much one of your cans covers, what it costs, and how many of them you'll actually need to finish the job.  It can really add up is all and to spend that much for a paint job that might not last seems unwise.

 

[pdp8]

To get an even gloss, it really helps to apply the paint evenly and quickly.  This is where a spray gun really helps, the spray cans don't have enough paint in them, enough propellant to get the paint out quickly, a large enough spray pattern, or big enough nozzle to get the paint on the surface quickly enough and evenly enough to do the job in an efficient manner.

Blotching, uneven gloss, and tiger-stripes are common issues.  You can fix a lot of that by color-sanding the basecoat but it's a lot of work compared to doing it right from the gun.

[wayno]

Just recently I did some work on my Mini, I put in new floor boards and installed rockers/sills, I went to the paint store with a flare from my Mini and had them color match it and put it in a rattle can they have, I sprayed them rockers with that rattle can and it went on better than any rattle can paint I have ever used, it went on way better than the paint I used on the Datsun 320 I painted, I used a Binks 2001 paint gun on that vehicle, there is a lot more involved than just having a good paint gun, that rattle can they filled was awesome, that paint went on so nice that a beginner could paint with it.

They also said that British Racing Green was a tough color and I would need 3 coats, it turned out awesome, no runs or orange peal, it's awesome to use something that everything is right when you pull the trigger, with a paint gun you have to know how to set it up, know how to control the compressor pressure, not have any moisture in the compressor, mix the paint, with that can I just pointed and sprayed, but it can get expensive also.

I am likely going to try and do an engine compartment with them rattle cans fill with paint, I was considering doing the 521 kingcab engine compartment in red like the rest of the truck, if it goes on like it did them rockers I will likely do a complete truck a panel at a time.

I was very impressed with them pre-made rattle cans they sell that they fill with a pre-determined amount of paint, at first I thought it was the type of paint, but after I talked to them for a while about it I realized it was the same paint I used on the 320.

[rosso]

Here's the paint I have - I bought the can and they filled three rattle cans with it and I have the remaining left in the can.

 

 

I am using a rust converter to coat the sanded areas before priming and painting to help prevent rust down the road.

 

I appreciate all the input - I am still on the fence about the best way to go - not wanting to buy anything more than what I already have.

[pdp8]

Many rust converters are known to have poor adhesion qualities, make sure you scuff it well at a minimum and check to see if there is an adhesion-promoter/tie-coat.

I know for instance POR-15 sells a tie-coating if you are planning to paint over it. Omni is the cheap-seats PPG line but I've heard it's not too bad for older formulations like ours.  That is one you should plan on clearcoating over though.  If your shop mixed it in Concept you would have needed a hardener but no clearcoat.

[rosso]

pdp8 - I am using Gempler's Rust Converter and it does have something for bonding because they say you do not have to primer and can paint right over. I have used a primer anyway. You can see the process I am using on my project page 1 named

 

'72 510 Goon - Prova - because it will be a test

 

Scroll down a bit and you can see the steps for doing my battery tray. I have been clearcoating it all.

 

I do have an air compressor and thanks for the recommendation for the HF spray gun model. I have the rattle can primer so will use it then decide about the color and clear coats.

 

Any recommendations for how many coats of each and how thick?

 

 

[Lozer]

Have you thought of rolling paint on the car?  And yes im serious. 3 coats  wetsand with 600 3 more coats wetsant with 800 1 coat 1000 grit 1 coat 1200 till you hit 3k. Lot of work but you will have a flawless mirror of paint. Use a 3" foam roller and let the coats get tacky before the next and dry for 24 before sanding.

 

Btw this is for single stage. Or you could rent an industrial compressor go buy a harbor freight gun and wet sand the orange peel out after 4 coats

 

[Z23T]

I'm not a pro painter, but I play one on TV.

 

Since you have the paint in the cans, spray that shit. Cover your bare spots with a high fill spray bomb filler primer, I like the Duplicolor stuff, sand down to 600 grit, wipe down with some wax and grease remover, and spray. Follow the manufactures recommendations for prep and spraying multiple coats, or top coating with clear.  If it looks like shit, sand with 600 and try again. If you get a run, wait till the paint dries and slowly scrape it off with a single edge razor, Google it. If you get a good coat down, sand with 1000, then 1500, then 2000, and cut and buff with some polishing compound. 

 

Spending a bunch of cash on spray equipment and a moisture filter system for your compressor would make sense if you were spraying the whole car, but with some good prep work you should get some good results from the rattle cans the paint store put together for you for shooting your rear hatch. The paint in those cans is so much better than than the super thin and brittle Krylon shit, you'll be amazed.

[rosso]

Thanks all, in process using what I have. Better than it was all faded red and rusted.

 

[Ken Layton]

Looks 100 times better. 🙂

[edekalil]

Using a spray gun and compressor you can do the whole car. Good paint can cost a lot. Do not do what I did way back and buy the paint before you are ready to paint the whole car. I bought all the paint before I got any bodywork done and due to life interruptions it's still sitting in the box I got it in 23 or so years later. So there went $460.00 worth of paint. I'm sure it's no good now. So far your looking good. It does help to have a place and equipment for doing it but sometimes you gotta do with what you have. It took a long time to get where I am and I still don't have the time to do what I want. And like the cars I'm getting older every day. Good luck.

Edited August 16, 2020 by edekalil

[jagman]

I bought PPG paint for a project car that I subsequently sold before I painted it.  23 years later I painted another car with it.  Two part epoxy enamel lasts longer than you might think if it is unopened.

[john510]

Epoxies have a very long shelf life.I've got a two part epoxy kit that's 25 years old i use for gluing fishing rod components together.It was a free sample from a vendor that i just never used until recently.

[Stinky]

A little late, but I sorta like what Lozer said.  I have used X.O.Rust (the True Value brand) and Rustoleum.  They have it in a can, and a spray can and the 2 colors match.

 

For the lower panels, you can brush it on...same as the roof.  For the visible parts, use the rattle can.

 

Depending on the color...tan, pale gray, sky blue, it doesnt  pay to spray it.  The lighter the color, the easy it is to get it right.

 

2 coats is more than enough.

 

My Suburban is Almond...you cant tell that it was brushed, more than 10 ft away.  The job is at least 5 years old.  I wanted desert-sand/tan, but they didn't have it in both spray and can.

[angel6er]

On 4/11/2020 at 9:09 PM, rosso said:

Thanks all, in process using what I have. Better than it was all faded red and rusted.

 

may I ask what kind of paint brand and color you went with? looks good!

[rosso]

I went to an automotive paint supply store in Seattle and had them mix to match my paint code (906 Safari Brown). I also took my wiper cover and they scanned it to match the paint. Here is a photo of the can - it's an affordable paint but not major manufacture. I am not a paint guy but was happy with the results since this is a daily driver not a full resto.

 

 

Here is the finished hatch after clear coat and finishing.

 

and the new hatch vents

[datzenmike]

Wow, better than 50/50 (viewed at fifty feet at fifty miles per hour) looks really good. Those vents really make it pop. Small details.

[rosso]

Thanks Mike, the ratty vents were bothering me since I got the car two years ago. I have a 510 emblem to install and needing the Datsun emblem to finish the hatch off.

[sick620]

big improvement.