Covid-19 Prepared?

[Skib]

On 10/1/2021 at 9:38 PM, Mattndew76 said:

 

 

continue..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dguy210]

3 hours ago, ratpatrol66 said:

I got the vax for my piece of mind not my employer, currently unemployed. I make my choices for me, sometimes others can influence me. This rarely happens though. As far as work goes they have company policies, hearing protection required and such. Funny thing is a few guys were spouting off about freedom of speech and perched on their soap box. Well they got their asses handed to them. I do hope the anti vax fuckers get fired. The 3 of them in my job code are worthless fuckers so good by losers.

 

You have every right to get it if you think it is the right choice for YOU. Having that decision taken away from you by mandate or risk of losing your job is what is NOT right.

 

Also, last I checked you can take hearing protection off when you get home. It is not a PERMANENT MODIFICATION to your body demanded by your employer.

 

Most employers have no loyalty to their employees but think it is perfectly acceptable to force them to undergo a medical procedure that has a RISK OF DEATH.

 

Let's all crunch the numbers now. We will use CDC accepted numbers even if they are likely bullshit or under reported.

 

# of vaxxed Americans= 209,701,005 

# of vax deaths reported (VAERS) what CDC uses= 16,310

# of vax permanent disabilities (VAERS)= 23,712

# of vax life threatening events = 17,618

# of vax hospitilizations = 75,605

 

So we can then divide the adverse event/number of total vaxxed Americans and get your chance of something bad happening.

Chance of death 16,310/209,701,005 = 1 in 12857. So if you mandate the vax for a company of 13,000 people you will kill 1 with the mandate. 

Chance of permanent disability 23713/209,701,005 =1 in 8843. So for that same company of 13,000 people you have now maimed at least 1 and almost 2 people.

Chance of life threatening event= 17618/209,701,005 =1 in 11902. Another person has had a life threatening event, or could be the same person.

Chance of them being hospitalized= 75605/209,701,005= 1 in 2773. So 4.6 or call it 4 to 5 people you've sent to the hospital.

 

IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO KILL 1 RANDOM PERSON IN 13000 TO POTENTIALLY PREVENT OTHER PEOPLE FROM DYING. 

 

The overall death rate from COVID is 185 per 100,000 people, so scaling to 13,000 people it is 24 people from 13,000.

 

So for the vaccine mandate you need to kill 1 person for every 24 you could potentially save and let me remind you the vaccine does not prevent 1. death from covid, 2. catching covid, spreading covid.

 

KILLING 1 PERSON TO POTENTIALLY SAVE 24 IS NOT ETHICAL. 

 

BIDEN'S vax mandate through OHSA is expected to force 80,000,000 people to get the vax. It will statistically kill 6,222 people who would otherwise not die. HIS ACTIONS WILL KILL 6000 people. That is literally twice what died on 911 and we went to war over that.

THAT IS EVIL.

 

NOTE: WE know these numbers of adverse events are highly under reported by likely a factor higher than 10.

 

If you give people a choice and tell them the risks that is fine but as soon as you force it you are responsible for killing or hurting those people.

 

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Edited October 15, 2021 by Dguy210

[ratpatrol66]

28 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

 

You have every right to get it if you think it is the right choice for YOU. Having that decision taken away from you by mandate or risk of losing your job is what is NOT right.

 

Also, last I checked you can take hearing protection off when you get home. It is not a PERMANENT MODIFICATION to your body demanded by your employer.

 

Most employers have no loyalty to their employees but think it is perfectly acceptable to force them to undergo a medical procedure that has a RISK OF DEATH.

 

Let's all crunch the numbers now. We will use CDC accepted numbers even if they are likely bullshit or under reported.

 

# of vaxxed Americans= 209,701,005 

# of vax deaths reported (VAERS) what CDC uses= 16,310

# of vax permanent disabilities (VAERS)= 23,712

# of vax life threatening events = 17,618

# of vax hospitilizations = 75,605

 

So we can then divide the adverse event/number of total vaxxed Americans and get your chance of something bad happening.

Chance of death 16,310/209,701,005 = 1 in 12857. So if you mandate the vax for a company of 13,000 people you will kill 1 with the mandate. 

Chance of permanent disability 23713/209,701,005 =1 in 8843. So for that same company of 13,000 people you have now maimed at least 1 and almost 2 people.

Chance of life threatening event= 17618/209,701,005 =1 in 11902. Another person has had a life threatening event, or could be the same person.

Chance of them being hospitalized= 75605/209,701,005= 1 in 2773. So 4.6 or call it 4 to 5 people you've sent to the hospital.

 

IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO KILL 1 RANDOM PERSON IN 13000 TO POTENTIALLY PREVENT OTHER PEOPLE FROM DYING. 

 

The overall death rate from COVID is 185 per 100,000 people, so scaling to 13,000 people it is 24 people from 13,000.

 

So for the vaccine mandate you need to kill 1 person for every 24 you could potentially save and let me remind you the vaccine does not prevent 1. death from covid, 2. catching covid, spreading covid.

 

KILLING 1 PERSON TO POTENTIALLY SAVE 24 IS NOT ETHICAL. 

 

BIDEN'S vax mandate through OHSA is expected to force 80,000,000 people to get the vax. It will statistically kill 6,222 people who would otherwise not die. HIS ACTIONS WILL KILL 6000 people. That is literally twice what died on 911 and we went to war over that.

THAT IS EVIL.

 

NOTE: WE know these numbers of adverse events are highly under reported by likely a factor higher than 10.

 

If you give people a choice and tell them the risks that is fine but as soon as you force it you are responsible for killing or hurting those people.

 

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

GOD DAMN you are going to drive yourself crazy about this. If you want to get vaccinated so be it, if not fine. I don't give a fuck about Joe Biden's opinion. I don't give a fuck about Donald Trumps opinion or Hillary Clinton's opinion either. I'm a free thinker. CNN or FOX doesn't influence what I do with my life. Ease up and enjoy life man.

Edited October 15, 2021 by ratpatrol66

[john510]

10 hours ago, Mattndew76 said:

 

It was annoying as hell. I didn't have immunity but it also had an extremely low risk factor for me. So the risk benefit I chose worked out. For some they have to chose that with either a vaccine or natural infection. 

 

I wanted the infection because of the data I was seeing showed a much more robust genetic memory response over time vs artificial stimulation.  I didn't intentionally get infected, but I am very glad it finally happened. If I was in a high risk category I would have chosen one of the vaccines early on, but knowing my risk category this was best for me. 

 

I really don't dislike the vaccine, but I also do not think people are being honest about its efficacy, and with a recent manipulation of the VAERS data system coupled with the UK/ Israeli studies It just kinda made it even harder for me to have any trust for the ever changing goal posts associated with these vaccines.

 

Everyone should have a choice and no mandates required. Naturally or vaccine stimulated you have nothing to fear from people who have chosen to stay jab free. 

I agree 100% with this last sentence.The mandate thing is just wrong.Now the kids are being forced into it which just isn't right.

[datzenmike]

 

# of vax deaths reported (VAERS) what CDC uses= 16,310

 

Just how is this determined???? Just like jbird's saying his father got the jab and died of a blood clot 3 days later. How is this separated from those who had other risk factors such as environmental, heredity and life style??? If terminal cancer patients or accident victims who died and just happened to test positive for exposure to co-vid were marked as 'co-vid deaths' by doctors...... who do you believe????? Vaxers do die from other causes, how do those get sieved out from actual deaths caused by the vax???? and why should I believe it????

 

[Dav]

8 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

 

You have every right to get it if you think it is the right choice for YOU. Having that decision taken away from you by mandate or risk of losing your job is what is NOT right.

 

Also, last I checked you can take hearing protection off when you get home. It is not a PERMANENT MODIFICATION to your body demanded by your employer.

 

Most employers have no loyalty to their employees but think it is perfectly acceptable to force them to undergo a medical procedure that has a RISK OF DEATH.

 

Let's all crunch the numbers now. We will use CDC accepted numbers even if they are likely bullshit or under reported.

 

# of vaxxed Americans= 209,701,005 

# of vax deaths reported (VAERS) what CDC uses= 16,310

# of vax permanent disabilities (VAERS)= 23,712

# of vax life threatening events = 17,618

# of vax hospitilizations = 75,605

 

So we can then divide the adverse event/number of total vaxxed Americans and get your chance of something bad happening.

Chance of death 16,310/209,701,005 = 1 in 12857. So if you mandate the vax for a company of 13,000 people you will kill 1 with the mandate. 

Chance of permanent disability 23713/209,701,005 =1 in 8843. So for that same company of 13,000 people you have now maimed at least 1 and almost 2 people.

Chance of life threatening event= 17618/209,701,005 =1 in 11902. Another person has had a life threatening event, or could be the same person.

Chance of them being hospitalized= 75605/209,701,005= 1 in 2773. So 4.6 or call it 4 to 5 people you've sent to the hospital.

 

IT IS NOT ETHICAL TO KILL 1 RANDOM PERSON IN 13000 TO POTENTIALLY PREVENT OTHER PEOPLE FROM DYING. 

 

The overall death rate from COVID is 185 per 100,000 people, so scaling to 13,000 people it is 24 people from 13,000.

 

So for the vaccine mandate you need to kill 1 person for every 24 you could potentially save and let me remind you the vaccine does not prevent 1. death from covid, 2. catching covid, spreading covid.

 

KILLING 1 PERSON TO POTENTIALLY SAVE 24 IS NOT ETHICAL. 

 

BIDEN'S vax mandate through OHSA is expected to force 80,000,000 people to get the vax. It will statistically kill 6,222 people who would otherwise not die. HIS ACTIONS WILL KILL 6000 people. That is literally twice what died on 911 and we went to war over that.

THAT IS EVIL.

 

NOTE: WE know these numbers of adverse events are highly under reported by likely a factor higher than 10.

 

If you give people a choice and tell them the risks that is fine but as soon as you force it you are responsible for killing or hurting those people.

 

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

This is a false argument.  If you don’t want the vaccine, don’t get it.  If you don’t want to have your kid get it, don’t.  It is a choice that you have and can make.

 

In civilized society, we live under laws made by other people.  That has been true for some time.  Some laws we like, some we don’t.

 

Home school is a valid option.  Get another job, work for yourself, or go be homeless.  Nobody (yet) is coming to your residence with a gun to shoot you if you don’t get the shot.

 

Don't conflate getting a vaccine to killing  the people who get it - as though there is no choice involved.  If you have such strong beliefs, then be true to them and don’t get the vaccine.  Go live in the wilderness somewhere where they will never find you.

 

There is no force, there is no gun, so nobody is killing or hurting anyone by force - it is a choice.  Make it.

[Ooph!]

 

They hold the threat of violence over all of us by virtue of being the Government.

This is only the opening salvo and if they keep getting their way there will be no place to hide survivalist or not.

These mandates are orders, you will obey. They will now use this precedent against us for everything you could think of.

 

You need logic to interpret something you know has been fiddled with.

As Dguy210 points out the numbers are probably under reported and some of us think intentionally unprecise ( who died from it vs with it ) to avoid having us get an actual understanding of how fucked up it really is. When the vaers numbers were originally reported a media smear campaign responded to undercut any reliability and we have seen that time and again repeated against anyone and everything other than those vaccines.

 At first I thought it was just politics orange man bad but it is still headed south so to speak about any opinion other than the accepted orthodoxy. Think of the drugs that had potential therapeutic benefits that the govt. and media condemned that as time passes we can see being used in other countries to great effect that don't have our politics. There are area's where official decree's forbade the use of these drugs and large numbers of doctors still wouldn't dare prescribe them.

So yes they have the power of violence and without firing a shot, how many suffered because doctors were too afraid to try something other than what they were told to do.

 

[datzenmike]

Just imagine my surprise when Gorbachev came to power.

 

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

² And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

³ And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

⁴ And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

⁶ And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.

¹⁰ He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

 

Eventually there will only be credit cards and no cash money. If you don't have a card that's valid you go hungry.

[Duncan]

I got my third Covid shot a few weeks ago.  Also got a shingles and a flu shot over the last two weeks. 

 

With that said, I am pro choice.  Whatever works for you is the right choice.  I look out for me, not the Government...

 

 

 

 

 

[Dguy210]

17 hours ago, ratpatrol66 said:

GOD DAMN you are going to drive yourself crazy about this. If you want to get vaccinated so be it, if not fine. I don't give a fuck about Joe Biden's opinion. I don't give a fuck about Donald Trumps opinion or Hillary Clinton's opinion either. I'm a free thinker. CNN or FOX doesn't influence what I do with my life. Ease up and enjoy life man.

 

I'm already crazy. I give a fuck because I'm being fired for not taking this shot. As you can imagine this pisses me off something fierce, my fucking employer does not own MY BODY.

 

Forcing medical procedures on healthy people to keep their job is fucking immoral as all shit, especially when it has a chance of DEATH.

 

So yeah, I get fucking pissy when the fucking assholes in power consider me a fucking slave that they can order to me to put something into my body or get fired, that I don't want, I find ethically fucked, and that violates my religious beliefs. 

 

IT IS WRONG AND IT IS EVIL. And all that it takes for EVIL to succeed is for GOOD men to do nothing.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Dguy210

[ratpatrol66]

44 minutes ago, Dguy210 said:

 

I'm already crazy. I give a fuck because I'm being fired for not taking this shot. As you can imagine this pisses me off something fierce, my fucking employer does not own MY BODY.

 

Forcing medical procedures on healthy people to keep their job is fucking immoral as all shit, especially when it has a chance of DEATH.

 

So yeah, I get fucking pissy when the fucking assholes in power consider me a fucking slave that they can order to me to put something into my body or get fired, that I don't want, I find ethically fucked, and that violates my religious beliefs. 

 

IT IS WRONG AND IT IS EVIL. And all that it takes for EVIL to succeed is for GOOD men to do nothing.

OK I totally get where you are coming from. I have had my blinders on regarding the news and this mandate. It is fucked up no doubt. Many of the self entitled Boeing workers are always fighting the company about complete BS. This is going to be interesting on many levels. Guys in my job code are retiring early so maybe I will get back to work sooner than later. I am a selfish prick so to bad for them. I just want to get back to work. Got the moderna vax earlier in the year with no side effects. Several people were apposed to it but talked with their doctors and family deciding to get it. Tough decisions.

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, Dguy210 said:

 

 

 

IT IS WRONG AND IT IS EVIL. And all that it takes for EVIL to succeed is for GOOD men to do nothing.

 

Edmond Burk. (one of my favorites)

[john510]

10 hours ago, Dav said:

This is a false argument.  If you don’t want the vaccine, don’t get it.  If you don’t want to have your kid get it, don’t.  It is a choice that you have and can make.

 

In civilized society, we live under laws made by other people.  That has been true for some time.  Some laws we like, some we don’t.

 

Home school is a valid option.  Get another job, work for yourself, or go be homeless.  Nobody (yet) is coming to your residence with a gun to shoot you if you don’t get the shot.

 

Don't conflate getting a vaccine to killing  the people who get it - as though there is no choice involved.  If you have such strong beliefs, then be true to them and don’t get the vaccine.  Go live in the wilderness somewhere where they will never find you.

 

There is no force, there is no gun, so nobody is killing or hurting anyone by force - it is a choice.  Make it.

You think 210guy's argument is false ? yours is fucking lame.

[Dguy210]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 

Edmond Burk. (one of my favorites)

Interestingly that quote is attributed to Burke but it is up to debate if he ever actually said it. Still doesn't deter from how true it is though.

 

I always felt it was a paraphrasing of Ephesians 5:7

Those who do nothing about sin and evil, help the sin and evil to prevail. One who is silent when there are those around him in sin becomes a partaker with them.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Dguy210

[Ranman72]

anyone who may not actually be paying attention 

here is the facts doctors and nurses who don't want to be vaxed for whatever their reasons are are being threatened to lose their job over this 

all kinds of other trades also having the same option get vaxed or lose your job 

this is completely fucked up and completely immoral 

it should be your body your choice 

many people very rarely get sick this is due to a good immune system or good genes or whatever reason you want to come up with SO 

WHY THE FUCK SHOULD THEY BE FORCED TO DO OR CHANGE ANYTHING THAT IS OR ISNT FDA APPROVED ?

while on the other hand some get sick when the temperature changes  

it is not right to force this on ANYONE 

LET IT BE A CHOICE 

mandate weekly tests if you must and provide them as an employer 

the pharmaceutical companies will love you 

THIS IS AMERICA PRO CHOICE 

[Str8jacket]

On 10/15/2021 at 2:55 PM, Skib said:

 

 

continue..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well they killed old mate, had a bad heart and died during arrest. Sounds feasible.....

[Dav]

7 hours ago, john510 said:

You think 210guy's argument is false ? yours is fucking lame.

Now that is such a cogent argument, I’ll have to rethink mine - nah.

[Racer X 69]

Nobody put up a fuss in 1992 when the fitness for duty law was enacted. All people working in a safety sensitive role suddenly were required to submit to random drug and alcohol testing.

 

”Here, piss in this cup and blow up this balloon.”

 

Train engineers, ship’s pilots, airline pilots, truck drivers all had to submit to testing, or they lost their jobs. Indeed, many thousands of idiots who couldn’t make the right choice and not be under the influence of drugs or alcohol while at work have lost their jobs, and even today people make the wrong choice, get called in for a random test, and then get fired.

 

Along with that, the majority of employers adopted drug and alcohol screening as a standard.

[john510]

3 hours ago, Dav said:

Now that is such a cogent argument, I’ll have to rethink mine - nah.

You should rethink yours.Just because you don't have a problem being forced into something you think others should feel the same way ? This virus doesn't kill the vast majority that catch it.The problem is our Government is pushing things too far.If you get vaccinated what's to worry about right ? 

[bottomwatcher]

Here's my crazy theory and I am sticking to it. I got the phizer and the only reaction was a sore arm. I figured COVID probably wouldn't be a big deal healthwise.  The folks I see getting real sick from the vaccines would probably have and equal outcome with the virus since they are basically given the virus or a copy of it. Just my nutty theory.

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, john510 said:

You should rethink yours.Just because you don't have a problem being forced into something you think others should feel the same way ? This virus doesn't kill the vast majority that catch it.The problem is our Government is pushing things too far.If you get vaccinated what's to worry about right ? 

 

If the government (I hate to say 'forces you', rather... leaves you little choice) about taking the vaccine, but you already have decided in advance to anyway, you aren't being forced. That only applies to those opposed to it. Having made my choice to be vaccinated, it in no way biases my opinion on weather others should or should not get it. Frankly.... I could care less one way or the other.  Do what you have to do. I am not without sympathy for those opposed that are in a hard place. How many people can leave their jobs, sell home, buy a 'homestead', move family and hope 'live off the land' or become 'self employed'??? Almost none are in a position to. More might try if that was the end of it, but who's to say the gov won't come to your cabin door later? All for nothing. 

[thisismatt]

54 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said:

Here's my crazy theory and I am sticking to it. I got the phizer and the only reaction was a sore arm. I figured COVID probably wouldn't be a big deal healthwise.  The folks I see getting real sick from the vaccines would probably have and equal outcome with the virus since they are basically given the virus or a copy of it. Just my nutty theory.

 

But it's not like a conventional vaccine. It's a much different method, which is part of the reason people are skeptical - it doesn't have a fully fledged or tested track record. You can't say the effects are going to be the same.  Plus, as we're seeing, its efficacy is not as high as purported.

[Dav]

2 hours ago, john510 said:

You should rethink yours.Just because you don't have a problem being forced into something you think others should feel the same way ? This virus doesn't kill the vast majority that catch it.The problem is our Government is pushing things too far.If you get vaccinated what's to worry about right ? 

Now you make a valid point, instead of the “No, I’m not” ( yes you are) type of argument.  But, still, no change in my rethink.

 

Part of my argument was that we live under laws in society. Some are easy to comply with, while others are not.  But we all live under those laws. Yes, others make those laws, but everyone in that society lives under them. Some laws have harsh penalties, like if you were to rape your neighbor; and others have less harsh penalties, like if you were to vote twice in an election.  With each law, regulation, policy, you have to make a choice every day with each and every law. Do I do this or do that.  Somehow trying to raise this decision to be more morally repugnant than another is what? If he and you are so incensed by this type of behavior by those who are making those decisions, then get involved and support someone who can win an election and make different laws and decisions that are more to your liking.  Right now, you have to live with the choices that exist now.

 

So, in this case the penalty for not getting the vaccine is somewhere in between those two prior examples. He can get the vaccine, or he can lose his job.

 

He could also move to one of those two states where the governors have put penalties in place where they can keep schools from vaccinating or masking kids, and are trying their best to blunt any attempt for vaccine mandates. Otherwise, he’s living in a place where he gets no such consideration, and he has to make a very tough choice.  I’m kind of surprised that there are so many people who make impassioned arguments about things and decisions like this, appear to make it into a life or death choice - are faced with a less than life or death choice like moving to a state where their choices are much easier on their morals and conscience, yet want society to bend to their impassioned wants.
 

Get the vaccine or don’t - it is a choice.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Dav

[Mattndew76]

3 hours ago, Racer X 69 said:

Nobody put up a fuss in 1992 when the fitness for duty law was enacted. All people working in a safety sensitive role suddenly were required to submit to random drug and alcohol testing.

 

”Here, piss in this cup and blow up this balloon.”

 

Train engineers, ship’s pilots, airline pilots, truck drivers all had to submit to testing, or they lost their jobs. Indeed, many thousands of idiots who couldn’t make the right choice and not be under the influence of drugs or alcohol while at work have lost their jobs, and even today people make the wrong choice, get called in for a random test, and then get fired.

 

Along with that, the majority of employers adopted drug and alcohol screening as a standard.

 

I rallied against this too. I was a teen holding a sign in a small town. I and a few other people never made an impact. 

[john510]

1 hour ago, Dav said:

Now you make a valid point, instead of the “No, I’m not” ( yes you are) type of argument.  But, still, no change in my rethink.

 

Part of my argument was that we live under laws in society. Some are easy to comply with, while others are not.  But we all live under those laws. Yes, others make those laws, but everyone in that society lives under them. Some laws have harsh penalties, like if you were to rape your neighbor; and others have less harsh penalties, like if you were to vote twice in an election.  With each law, regulation, policy, you have to make a choice every day with each and every law. Do I do this or do that.  Somehow trying to raise this decision to be more morally repugnant than another is what? If he and you are so incensed by this type of behavior by those who are making those decisions, then get involved and support someone who can win an election and make different laws and decisions that are more to your liking.  Right now, you have to live with the choices that exist now.

 

So, in this case the penalty for not getting the vaccine is somewhere in between those two prior examples. He can get the vaccine, or he can lose his job.

 

He could also move to one of those two states where the governors have put penalties in place where they can keep schools from vaccinating or masking kids, and are trying their best to blunt any attempt for vaccine mandates. Otherwise, he’s living in a place where he gets no such consideration, and he has to make a very tough choice.  I’m kind of surprised that there are so many people who make impassioned arguments about things and decisions like this, appear to make it into a life or death choice - are faced with a less than life or death choice like moving to a state where their choices are much easier on their morals and conscience, yet want society to bend to their impassioned wants.
 

Get the vaccine or don’t - it is a choice.

You typed all of that and ended it with "it is a choice" ? Obviously it isn't.Who in the hell can or should just pack up their life and start over because of a forced vaccine ? Ridiculous.If this vaccine was showing to eradicate Covid i'm sure more of our citizens would be willing to get it.That hasn't been the case though has it ? Vaccinating and masking children is another ridiculous ploy from these leftist lunatics.They're kids,young and healthy.Maybe a natural vaccination would be better for them.Your definition of choice is distorted.And who is it that wants society to "bend to their impassioned wants" ? It's not those that don't want a vaccine is it ? It's those that want everybody to get it no matter what the circumstances.I'll point out Newsom's childrens vaccine mandate,that hypocritical SOB wants all kids vaccinated to attend school and his own kid isn't vaccinated for so called medical reasons.Absolute bullshit.