Intermitant starting issue

[Eomund]

So I'm having an issue where my battery apperantly won't be charging while I drive. My ignition light doesn't come on at all, and everything works fine while driving. 

 

What happens is after a significant time driving, I'll stop and fuel up or get groceries and nothing happens when I turn the key. All the lights work perfectly fine tho. But the starter makes no noise. No clicks, nothing. I had it happen last Friday. I push started it, drove home, battery reads full. Drove it several days no issues. 

 

Had it happen today at a gas station 5 minutes from my house. Push started it and drove home no issues and wouldn't start. Pulled the battery and this time it registered dead. It's charging as we speak on my charger. 

 

Some additional info. The battery is new. Literally 2 weeks old and tests as good. My alternator tests as good. And my starter tests as good. Oh, and it's a 700 cold crank battery too. What it's supposed to have. 

 

I'm thinking it's the alt or bad wiring. But I need a second opinion if I can get one. Thanks! 

 

Edit: So I think I found the issue. I changed the key cylinder out and haven't had any issue since. And I've driven a fair amount too. These piece of crap keys from Oriellies man. I'll keep an eye but it feels like that was the problem.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Eomund
Title change

[datzenmike]

11 minutes ago, Eomund said:

 

 

What happens is after a significant time driving, I'll stop and fuel up or get groceries and nothing happens when I turn the key. All the lights work perfectly fine tho. But the starter makes no noise. No clicks, nothing. I had it happen last Friday. I push started it, drove home, battery reads full. Drove it several days no issues. 

 

 

Full battery, lights work but no starter would appear to be no start signal from the ignition. The small Yellow/Black? wire terminal on the starter solenoid may be loose or bad contact. Carry a volt meter with you. If the lights work but no start pull the small wire off the starter and have someone hold the key in the START position while you measure any voltage on this wire. Should be close to 12v. If nothing then the ignition switch or the plug into it is loose. If voltage then the solenoid not working or intermittent. Are the starter bolts tight? Ground cable on the head tight?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Eomund said:

 

 

Had it happen today at a gas station 5 minutes from my house. Push started it and drove home no issues and wouldn't start. Pulled the battery and this time it registered dead. It's charging as we speak on my charger. 

 

 

I assume the charge light was out all the way home? This would appear to be a separate issue. Naturally if the battery is dead the starter won't work. How was the battery tested?

 

 

I guess I would start by cleaning the battery posts and clamps

[Eomund]

9 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Full battery, lights work but no starter would appear to be no start signal from the ignition. The small Yellow/Black? wire terminal on the starter solenoid may be loose or bad contact. Carry a volt meter with you. If the lights work but no start pull the small wire off the starter and have someone hold the key in the START position while you measure any voltage on this wire. Should be close to 12v. If nothing then the ignition switch or the plug into it is loose. If voltage then the solenoid not working or intermittent. Are the starter bolts tight? Ground cable on the head tight?

 

 

 

I assume the charge light was out all the way home? This would appear to be a separate issue. Naturally if the battery is dead the starter won't work. How was the battery tested?

 

 

I guess I would start by cleaning the battery posts and clamps

So I did rule out the alt and the battery. The battery was full charge after like 5 minutes on trickle charge. And ya, the ig light was out the whole way back. 

 

It's either wiring on the starter or the starter itself. 100 percent. I did the age old trick of smacking the starter with a wrench and it started after. While I did this something sparked so I made a connection with the wires. 

 

I'm pretty sure it's the wiring as the starter does pull very hard. So I gotta get down there and check all the wires. Maybe start replacing stuff too. 

[Eomund]

12 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

Full battery, lights work but no starter would appear to be no start signal from the ignition. The small Yellow/Black? wire terminal on the starter solenoid may be loose or bad contact. Carry a volt meter with you. If the lights work but no start pull the small wire off the starter and have someone hold the key in the START position while you measure any voltage on this wire. Should be close to 12v. If nothing then the ignition switch or the plug into it is loose. If voltage then the solenoid not working or intermittent. Are the starter bolts tight? Ground cable on the head tight?

 

 

 

I assume the charge light was out all the way home? This would appear to be a separate issue. Naturally if the battery is dead the starter won't work. How was the battery tested?

 

 

I guess I would start by cleaning the battery posts and clamps

Oh and Mike. On a separate note. What alternator are you running? I am considering an upgrade to mine as I wanna add a couple electrical components. If you have a build or parts list that would be sweet. Thanks! 

[thisismatt]

Definitely sounds like a problem with the starter or associated wiring.

 

I have an Eagle Talon alternator on my 521, but there are a lot of options.  

[Eomund]

1 hour ago, thisismatt said:

Definitely sounds like a problem with the starter or associated wiring.

 

I have an Eagle Talon alternator on my 521, but there are a lot of options.  

How many amps does it put out? And is it an easy swap? 

[datzenmike]

You can't possibly trickle charge a battery in 5 min. So it can be assumed that the battery was fully charged and the problem is with the starter or wiring to it. So that leaves only this...

 

10 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Full battery, lights work but no starter would appear to be no start signal from the ignition. The small Yellow/Black? wire terminal on the starter solenoid may be loose or bad contact. Carry a volt meter with you. If the lights work but no start pull the small wire off the starter and have someone hold the key in the START position while you measure any voltage on this wire. Should be close to 12v. If nothing then the ignition switch or the plug into it is loose. If voltage then the solenoid not working or intermittent. Are the starter bolts tight? Ground cable on the head tight?

 

 

 

I have a 2002 100 amp Altima alternator currently. (pun intended)

 

I had to swap my V belt pulley on and grind some clearance on my block mount. It does not just 'bolt on'. The pulley has to be spaced outwards so it doesn't rub the case and then the pulley nut only turns on 3-4 threads so I welded a tack on it so it would never come loose driving. I got the output cable with it and it was larger than my battery cable so I crimped a large lug on it and bolted to the starter lug. Since then I've replaced the battery with a side terminal one and the battery cables from a GM car that are thick as a finger.

 

I have done a  240sx KA 80/90 amp alternator, pretty much the same thing. The Hardbody alternators were V pulley. I think when they get to a certain output the wider serpentine belts are used because of the extreme drag when charging. ON my other 710 the KA alternator belt would shriek when charging a low battery. They just slip.

[thisismatt]

7 hours ago, Eomund said:

How many amps does it put out? And is it an easy swap? 

75A. Yeah, easy swap. Just had to swap my stock pulley on, jumper the plug at the external regulator (deleted), and get a different length belt.

 

 

 

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

put truck in neutral and take a wire from plus battery to the selinoid tap and see if it cranks hard everytime. If yous then maybe the key switch has low voltage.

measure this when it happens.

Or measure the voltage. if like 11 volts at the yellow wire it may be low. that's where I do the test above. He is where I added the HOT START RELAY.  Now my cheap starter from O rileys are lasting longer.

 

as for the alternator I went with the Rockauto "Power Select" which is a new part but made in china stock output. Its been in the truck over 2 yrs now and doing OK. the other rebuilds I get about 8months.  They are 80 bucks which Bankrupts most Datsun owners it seems like. But its a better part. plus fit right in as it small.  I don't know what you adding more besides H4 lamps or something where you woud need a lot more power. But mine seems ok in my 521  NO mods.  as the 521 with a L16 uses the smaller bolts. If 18/20 uses bigger bolts. bigger alt might hit idler arm  ect…….

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/nissan,1971,521+pickup,1.6l+l4,1212321,electrical,alternator+/+generator,2412

 

as for the starters one can get a TSI Automotive one and should last a long time but 200$

http://tsimportedautomotive.com/gearreductionstarters.html

Edited February 26, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

21 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

75A. Yeah, easy swap. Just had to swap my stock pulley on, jumper the plug at the external regulator (deleted), and get a different length belt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I managed to keep my belt on the KA swap. Used a washer on the Altima but if I did it again I would source a thinner one maybe get an extra thread on the nut. It's been on for years and no problem but I did have the two wires on the plug reversed for 3 of them. Only when I put a gauge in did I notice the alt. wasn't charging 5 out of 6 starts. It was never a problem though I did switch them back correctly. Heater fan is a tornado and  doesn't rise and fall with the lights on high beam with the turn signals on like it used to.

[banzai510(hainz)]

get a volt meter that plugs into the cig lighter so you can actually monitor whats happening as you drive.

http://wheelsresearch.com/best-battery-tester/

[Eomund]

9 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

put truck in neutral and take a wire from plus battery to the selinoid tap and see if it cranks hard everytime. If yous then maybe the key switch has low voltage.

measure this when it happens.

Or measure the voltage. if like 11 volts at the yellow wire it may be low. that's where I do the test above. He is where I added the HOT START RELAY.  Now my cheap starter from O rileys are lasting longer.

 

as for the alternator I went with the Rockauto "Power Select" which is a new part but made in china stock output. Its been in the truck over 2 yrs now and doing OK. the other rebuilds I get about 8months.  They are 80 bucks which Bankrupts most Datsun owners it seems like. But its a better part. plus fit right in as it small.  I don't know what you adding more besides H4 lamps or something where you woud need a lot more power. But mine seems ok in my 521  NO mods.  as the 521 with a L16 uses the smaller bolts. If 18/20 uses bigger bolts. bigger alt might hit idler arm  ect…….

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/nissan,1971,521+pickup,1.6l+l4,1212321,electrical,alternator+/+generator,2412

 

as for the starters one can get a TSI Automotive one and should last a long time but 200$

http://tsimportedautomotive.com/gearreductionstarters.html

The adding more is some interior electrical Doodads like chargers and better speakers. Stuff like that. And I want to install a tablet as a control screen. I know I can do that on stick equipment but I would feel better with a slight more output than the stock 35a

[Eomund]

9 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You can't possibly trickle charge a battery in 5 min. So it can be assumed that the battery was fully charged and the problem is with the starter or wiring to it. So that leaves only this...

Ya that made me realize it isn't a charging issue. I'm almost positive it's a wiring issue with the starter. I need to go look at it. I'm getting over a horrid allergic reaction at the moment annoyingly. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

clean conacks first

[john510]

Install that hot start relay thing.I did it to my 510 and haven't had the problem since.I think i spent 12 bucks and 30 minutes of my time.

[Eomund]

2 hours ago, john510 said:

Install that hot start relay thing.I did it to my 510 and haven't had the problem since.I think i spent 12 bucks and 30 minutes of my time.

By hot start you mean a button to bypass the iggy right? 

[thisismatt]

1 hour ago, Eomund said:

By hot start you mean a button to bypass the iggy right? 

No, an under hood relay triggered by the ignition start switch to deliver direct power to the starter solenoid instead of going all the way through the ignition switch.

Edited February 28, 2020 by thisismatt

[datzenmike]

It's yet to be determined what the cause is isn't it??? Will you waste time with a hot start relay when the ignition switch is the problem? or the starter solenoid? or a loose wire??

[thisismatt]

A start relay is a good idea regardless.  It'll make your ignition switch last longer.

[datzenmike]

.... not.... really.... It's supplying a fix for something not broken. The start signal voltage should be measured and if low a hot start will fix this. If not the real problem should be found.

[Eomund]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

.... not.... really.... It's supplying a fix for something not broken. The start signal voltage should be measured and if low a hot start will fix this. If not the real problem should be found.

Don't worry, I'm not doing that. I can as a last resort, but I have a pretty good grasp on where the problem is. I just purchased a new ignition key as this one was having issues anyway. And my starter has a lifetime warranty and I checked with O'Reillies and they will honor it. So I will remove those 2 spots out of the possible loop, and clean my contacts when I hook everything new up. When I do, I will check everything and see with the wiring seems okay too. If needed, I will replace some of the wires. One wire in particular (the ground to be specific) feels really hard and brittle so I might patch in a new ground wire at the very least while I'm down there.

 

Something that was always preached by my dad. Fix it the right way. Don't mickey mouse a fix. You will have something that works better, longer and easier to figure out in the future.

[banzai510(hainz)]

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=Awr9Ds.2VllePiQASWlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0MHJlcG9zBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjkzMjZfMQRzZWMDcGl2cw--?p=hot+start+relay&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t#id=33&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dzubehor.com%2Fwebpics%2FManualrelay2.jpg&action=click

 

instead of hookin up at the battery just hook up at the starter lug

 

https://www.jegs.com/i/Painless/764/30202/10002/-1?msclkid=3bac4a825dd510fc928214db2bc96875&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=BSC - All Products&utm_term=4579328492864333&utm_content=All Products

Edited February 28, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[banzai510(hainz)]

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=hot+start+relay&fr=yfp-t&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.thesamba.com%2Fvw%2Fclassifieds%2Fpix%2F5377758.jpg#id=79&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cabby-info.com%2Fimages%2FElectrical%2FBoschWR1Diagram.jpg&action=click

 

 

you don't need the fuse

Edited February 28, 2020 by banzai510(hainz)

[thisismatt]

11 hours ago, datzenmike said:

.... not.... really.... It's supplying a fix for something not broken. The start signal voltage should be measured and if low a hot start will fix this. If not the real problem should be found.

 

Ok, suit yourself running 30A+ burst, 10A constant draw through the ignition switch & crappy stock wiring.  I'll use a relay.

[datzenmike]

Again the start signal voltage should be measured and shown to be the cause. Yer puttin' yer boots on before looking out the window for rain.