Charging Problem

[Crashtd420]

Did you look at the truck wiring when you made the jumper?

Or the regulator plug?

I noticed the colors were not the same on one I got.....

[Dat521sun]

8 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Ok I think I know what happened....

What happened? 

[Dat521sun]

7 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Did you look at the truck wiring when you made the jumper?

Or the regulator plug?

I noticed the colors were not the same on one I got.....

I followed the info from another post here in Ratsun. 

 

[Crashtd420]

You need to verify the wires on the truck are jumped properly not neccessary by the colors on the regulator plug....

 

Your jumper has to be wrong because you ended up connecting constant power to ignition power which is why the truck kept running..... 

[Dat521sun]

27 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

You need to verify the wires on the truck are jumped properly not neccessary by the colors on the regulator plug....

 

Your jumper has to be wrong because you ended up connecting constant power to ignition power which is why the truck kept running..... 

Yes, they were wrong. I followed my wires instead of VR wires, now my light is on (constantly) at least now the truck is telling me is not charging 😉 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Dat521sun

[wayno]

This is getting crazy, I went thru all this on the 4th post in this thread, I mentioned the stuff they sell these days is crap, and they sell internally regulated alternators as as externally regulated alternators because they have not a clue.

Also one cannot see what color the wires are on the plug that jumper plug is plugged into, who knows if that regulator plug was even right for that truck and that could be why the regulator burnt out.

I believe that the yellow wire in the "T" plug(top of the "T") goes to a keyed power source, so you forget the existing wiring harness and run that wire straight from the alternator to the fuse block(keyed power source), and the white/black wire goes to the white/red wire in that "T" plug(bottom of the "T" plug), I would just plug it into that plug without a jumper plug, you want everything clean and easily traceable with no confusion, this way I just described takes every wire out of the existing wiring harness except for the charge light wire.

 

By the way, 16 volts is not that crazy of a voltage with a battery that may need charging, so you may have it already, over 16 volts I am not sure about.

[datzenmike]

A 12 v battery needs about +2v more charge rate to push the charge into it. Or just over 14v. Going higher will just cram in more current and over time 'cook' the battery even when fully charged. It's not good for the rest of the electronics and lighting that are designed for 12v or up to 14v when running. A battery that is low from a lot of cranking or lights left on tend to show a lower output voltage on the alternator. It would like to put out 14v but the battery is a big drain to charge. Just like turning on all your lights and the heater. My current (pun intended) 100 amp alternator runs at 14.3v.

[Dat521sun]

35 minutes ago, wayno said:

This is getting crazy, I went thru all this on the 4th post in this thread, I mentioned the stuff they sell these days is crap, and they sell internally regulated alternators as as externally regulated alternators because they have not a clue.

Also one cannot see what color the wires are on the plug that jumper plug is plugged into, who knows if that regulator plug was even right for that truck and that could be why the regulator burnt out.

I believe that the yellow wire in the "T" plug(top of the "T") goes to a keyed power source, so you forget the existing wiring harness and run that wire straight from the alternator to the fuse block(keyed power source), and the white/black wire goes to the white/red wire in that "T" plug(bottom of the "T" plug), I would just plug it into that plug without a jumper plug, you want everything clean and easily traceable with no confusion, this way I just described takes every wire out of the existing wiring harness except for the charge light wire.

 

By the way, 16 volts is not that crazy of a voltage with a battery that may need charging, so you may have it already, over 16 volts I am not sure about.

Even if I go with a internal regulated newer alternator, how would I know I'm not getting a junk? 

[wayno]

I was assuming that you already have an internally regulated alternator as that is what you posted a photo of, just check the jumper wires in your wiring harness and make sure your jumper plug is wired correctly for your wiring harness, do not look at your jumper plug wire colors, look at your wiring harness wires, if it doesn't work after that then maybe your wiring harness is toast or the alternator is toast being wired wrong so many times, or maybe your new fuse block is wired wrong, too many things have been changed and that is why I suggested by-passing your wiring harness altogether, clean and not confusing.

[DanielC]

Check your grounds!

 

A stock 521 has a black ground wire from the negative battery cable lug bolted to the cylinder head down to the alternator frame.  At the alternator frame there is a second black wire that goes into the engine room wiring harness, and to a eye that goes under one of the bolts holding the voltage regulator to the inner fender.   This ground must be in place, even if you have an internal regulated alternator.

 

As mentioned, the 1972 521 got an electric choke heater.  The choke heater was connected to ignition power with a relay, the relay was switched on by the voltage coming off the externally regulated alternator "N" terminal.  This was done so the ignition had to be on, AND the engine turning to turn on the choke heater.

 

How do you know if a new internally regulated alternator is not junk?  You really don't.

I have had decent luck just getting an alternator from a junk yard, with both my Datsuns, and with a 1996 Ford Aerostar.

Try to get an alternator from some rear wheel drive Nissan.  You  need to look for an Alternator with the same spacing from the mounting bolts to the V-belt pulley location.  You might need to get some bushings to use a 8MM bolt in the 10MM holes in the lower alternator mounting ears.

On your first page you put a picture of an alternator with am extra terminal about 120 degrees from the B+ and the "L" connection.   I am not sure if that alternator is the correct one for your use. 

 

Some checks you can do with an internal regulated alternator.

Just spin the rotor on the bench, without hooking anything up to it.  It should spin freely, without any roughness, or noise.

Bolt it on an engine.  Hook up a ground wire from the case, or frame of the alternator to the negative battery terminal.  Then use a test light from the positive battery terminal on the battery to the big positive battery terminal of the alternator.  The light should NOT light up.   If the light does light, the diodes in the alternator are shorted, that alternator is bad.

If the test light does not light, connect a wire from the positive terminal of the battery to the big positive terminal on the alternator.  With the test light hooked to the positive battery terminal, touching the "L" terminal should light the test light, this test is with the alternator not spinning, the engine not running. 

Start the engine, check the voltage at the battery.  This is with only the positive wire to the big terminal on the alternator, and positive battery terminal. and the alternator grounded.  The alternator may, or may not start charging.  Check battery voltage, ideally, with the alternator charging, voltage should be 13.5 to

14.5.  

With the engine running, turning the alternator, touch the test light, still hooked up to the positive battery terminal to the "L" terminal.  The test light should briefly flash, and then go off, and the battery should be charging 13.5  to 14.5 volts.

 

My two running 1970 521 trucks have an internally regulated alternator installed on them.  Dragon charges at 14.3 volts, this morning, I just started it, and Ratsun charges a little higher, closer to 15 volts.  This is a little too high, but I live with it, because the majority of my trips in Ratsun are less than 10 miles, and it is winter.  I do have to check the water in the battery periodically, and occasionally add some distilled water to the battery.  The batteries in both trucks are used Pick-n-Pull batteries.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by DanielC

[Charlie69]

Please post a picture of your new fuse box with the cover removed.  There are 2 wiring harnesses for the 521 and there are different fuse boxes depending on the years.  Please take pictures of your old fuse box front and back and post them also.  Also post the manufacture date from the drivers door jam.

 

I will look to see if i still have the pictures of the 2 fuse boxes.  Ask Daniel what year his wiring is for the new fuse box. 

 

Is your truck originally from Porto Rico?  Porto Rico 72 521 had the J13 engine.

[bilzbobaggins]

While we are on the subject of 521 fuse boxes, I was searching several old posts.  As we all know, photobucket has fucked up the site to a degree.  Anyone have updated wiring diagrams for the 521?  My old hard copy is greased up bad and I want to print another one, especially since we have a color printer at work now.

[Charlie69]

Here is a picture of the 2 different fuse boxes Thank to d.p.  Mine were PhotoBucketed.

 

 

 

Sorry about the quality off the last picture

Edited December 27, 2019 by Charlie69

[banzai510(hainz)]

Ok I cant keep up on this

OK I see he has gotten a O riley or Autozone alternators as I have these spares at home myself. But I bought the Rockauto Powerselect NEW alternator and been fine for 3 years.

The ones pictured above I did not try out myself as they have the bushing inn the rear of the back ear as I call it . On 521s one needs to put it on a vise and use a socket to move the bushing from back to front or vise versa as the 521 mount is a sheet metal version and goes in the inside of the mount  as a 510 uses the outside of the lower alternator mount.

 

Dat521sun I do use the CARQUEST Volt regs and have ok luck with them but on my last go around I had a bad alternator and it would pop my solid state volt regs right off that bat.My Ig nition light would be ON then start . Shut key OFF then go back to ON the light would be OFF I know I had a proplem .I swapped to another alternator and went with a japan mechanical volt reg. Its seem to be fine now and going on 3 yrs with no proplems .

 

Now for getting 15/16 volt could be be a unreglated reading which means the volt reg is bad but alternator is good. Now Im getting confused on this one as I will ASSUME!!!!!! if you ordered a 71/72 part you have a EXTERNAL volt reg alternator and will use the external volt reg.  If you took the Externat reg off the external type alternator you should get a highter unregulator reading.  But if its a IR alt with the jumpers installed then the internal volt reg is bad or you miswired something. Make sure to go with the colors in the wire harness as I seen people do the jumpers as mike shows using the VR plug but I seen the colors mismatched there.

 

Hope this don't add to the confussion

 

Just a SIDE NOTE the alternators from Autozone and O rileys are the same and they look different as what I got are not the old Japanese cores that they used to rebuild with the Hitachi or Mitshibishi diamond on the back. I assume those are so worn out that they are using different or new housings from China as that whats stated on the box. However my Rockauto.com Power Select NEW version is slightly different but is a Chinese part also but a direct fit is what I chose. and I have had good luck with the ones instaslled on my 521. On my 510 I had gotten Nissan 50amp units a long time  with like 2 more spares so I think I got a lifetime supply I hope.  But anything that says Lifetime Garrentee really means it going to be broke in less than a year.

 

 

 

a long time ago I seen a guy put a IR alternator on a 510 with the external volt reg still hooked up. he was getting like 16/17 volts

 

 

remember you have a 72 there is a choke relay on this rig. You have to disconnect it if not done already but it will dain your battery if you install a IR alternator and do the jumpers. I have a 72 also but kept the external alternator and I just unplug the choke with and tape it up as ai have a manual choke weber carb now

Edited December 27, 2019 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

I laugh when someone says they are on their 3rd 'free' alternator because they are guaranteed for life. How much for getting towed home? how much time spent taking the old one off and going to the store for the replacement? How much time spent putting it back on? and how much time worrying when this one will fuck up your drive to work? They are ...

 

[DanielC]

Check your grounds!

 

A stock 521 has a black ground wire from the negative battery cable lug bolted to the cylinder head down to the alternator frame.  At the alternator frame there is a second black wire that goes into the engine room wiring harness, and to a eye that goes under one of the bolts holding the voltage regulator to the inner fender.   This ground must be in place, even if you have an internal regulated alternator.

 

As mentioned, the 1972 521 got an electric choke heater.  The choke heater was connected to ignition power with a relay, the relay was switched on by the voltage coming off the externally regulated alternator "N" terminal.  This was done so the ignition had to be on, AND the engine turning to turn on the choke heater.

 

How do you know if a new internally regulated alternator is not junk?  You really don't.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Mike it getting harder to find good stuff. Just the way it is All the cheaper stuff is china even from the US so called soures

Accel, Mallory ect.

Volvo XC90 SUV is made in China  they make it to 100k mikes

Ok lets get back to figuring this out

[Dat521sun]

3 hours ago, wayno said:

I was assuming that you already have an internally regulated alternator as that is what you posted a photo of, just check the jumper wires in your wiring harness and make sure your jumper plug is wired correctly for your wiring harness, do not look at your jumper plug wire colors, look at your wiring harness wires, if it doesn't work after that then maybe your wiring harness is toast or the alternator is toast being wired wrong so many times, or maybe your new fuse block is wired wrong, too many things have been changed and that is why I suggested by-passing your wiring harness altogether, clean and not confusing.

Honestly, I ordered an external regulated alternator, that's the one pictured. I did the installation and light turned off, a week later, truck died, dead battery 

[Dat521sun]

2 hours ago, DanielC said:

Check your grounds!

 

A stock 521 has a black ground wire from the negative battery cable lug bolted to the cylinder head down to the alternator frame.  At the alternator frame there is a second black wire that goes into the engine room wiring harness, and to a eye that goes under one of the bolts holding the voltage regulator to the inner fender.   This ground must be in place, even if you have an internal regulated alternator.

 

As mentioned, the 1972 521 got an electric choke heater.  The choke heater was connected to ignition power with a relay, the relay was switched on by the voltage coming off the externally regulated alternator "N" terminal.  This was done so the ignition had to be on, AND the engine turning to turn on the choke heater.

 

How do you know if a new internally regulated alternator is not junk?  You really don't.

Ground, checked! Both, the ground from block and ground from VR are there, made new wires and clean bolts. 

[Dat521sun]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I laugh when someone says they are on their 3rd 'free' alternator because they are guaranteed for life. How much for getting towed home? how much time spent taking the old one off and going to the store for the replacement? How much time spent putting it back on? and how much time worrying when this one will fuck up your drive to work? They are ...

 

Been stranded at night (not once, but twice) in a high traffic area in Orlando, FL with my 11 year daughter and no battery, so no emergency lights, deadly and scary... People don't care... But what can I do

 

I learned to carry 2 extra batteries with me

Edited December 27, 2019 by Dat521sun

[banzai510(hainz)]

Dat521sun

take that alternator and have it checked out with a load

i take to 2 places to confirm if bad

[DanielC]

I thought of something else you might check.

Unplug the small "T" connector on the alternator, and check for voltage on both wires in the connector.  With the key off, there should be no voltage at either one.

[wayno]

51 minutes ago, Dat521sun said:

Honestly, I ordered an external regulated alternator, that's the one pictured. I did the installation and light turned off, a week later, truck died, dead battery 

 

See how the sticker says the regulator is built in.

 

See how the alternator has an "S" and a "L", the "L" being the important letter here.

 

This one is a 521 externally regulated alternator that has a sticker claiming original quality.

 

See how this externally regulated alternator has an "F" and an "N".

 

I say you have what looks like an internally regulated alternator, I cannot make you believe that they likely sold you something that was not made to work on your truck, if that jumper you made was not wired correctly it will not work, there are a lot of things that will make it not work, the fuse block is one of them, melted wires is another, I suggested by-passing all the original wiring except for the dash light wire isolating the alternator from your externally regulated system as I have had to do in the past because I could not get it to work properly with any type of alternator because something was screwed up in my wiring system, and I have a digital external regulator, not one of them goofy mechanical ones with points, fact is the first new external regulator I tried smoked itself when I turned on the key, the parts store was not happy.

 

 

[Dat521sun]

30 minutes ago, wayno said:

 

See how the sticker says the regulator is built in.

 

See how the alternator has an "S" and a "L", the "L" being the important letter here.

 

This one is a 521 externally regulated alternator that has a sticker claiming original quality.

 

See how this externally regulated alternator has an "F" and an "N".

 

I say you have what looks like an internally regulated alternator, I cannot make you believe that they likely sold you something that was not made to work on your truck, if that jumper you made was not wired correctly it will not work, there are a lot of things that will make it not work, the fuse block is one of them, melted wires is another, I suggested by-passing all the original wiring except for the dash light wire isolating the alternator from your externally regulated system as I have had to do in the past because I could not get it to work properly with any type of alternator because something was screwed up in my wiring system, and I have a digital external regulator, not one of them goofy mechanical ones with points, fact is the first new external regulator I tried smoked itself when I turned on the key, the parts store was not happy.

 

 

Both VR smoked out. This alternator is extremely weird, makes a ticking sound when truck is off. Also, there's a ticking sound behind the dash, near the key (like a solenoid sound) 

 

So, bypass everything, just connect the pos and the neg? Don't worry about the t plug? 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Dat521sun

[DanielC]

Start with this.   This is for a 1970 521, but there were changes in 521 wires.  Earlier 521 trucks, even with L-16 engines had a three always hot fuse box, later 521 trucks had a four always hot fuse box.  The extra hot fuse in the later trucks was to separate headlight power to the light switch from tail light and marker light power to the fuse box.

 

On a stock 521 the positive battery cable goes to the starter solenoid, and there is a fairly thick wire from the starter solenoid to the positive out terminal on the alternator.  There is no fuse, or fusible link from the positive alternator post to battery positive.  There is a pigtail wire from the positive battery terminal to the fusebox, and at the fusebox a white wire then goes into the cab, and to the ignition switch, again with no fuse, or fusible link.  Ignition key switched power comes from the ignition switch on a black wire with a white stripe, to the battery side of the fuse box.  A second black wire with a white stripe goes to the ignition coil, from the battery side of the fuse box.   Power to the ignition coil is also not fused.

The instrument cluster is fused, getting power from the white wire coming from the ignition switch.  Fused power is also supplied to the voltage regulator, from the black wire with a white stripe.

 

There is nothing that should be making a ticking sound in the alternator, or behind the dash near the key, on a stock 521.

 

You should be able to start and run the truck without any fuses in the fuse box, I even ran one of my 521 trucks around my farm without a dashboard, or instrument cluster. 

 

If you have an internal regulated alternator, you can start and run the truck without the "T" plug in the alternator, and it probably will not charge, but it could start charging if you rev the engine.   With the truck running, you can use a test light hooked up to positive battery terminal to touch the "L" terminal on the alternator, and that will cause the alternator to start charging.  the terst light will briefly flash, and then stay out.