1982 Datsun Diesel SD22 Turbo

[wayno]

You remove the shift lever and the plate it sticks out thru on the tunnel.

[TommyBsolid]

22 hours ago, wayno said:

You remove the shift lever and the plate it sticks out thru on the tunnel.

[TommyBsolid]

Came across a 2.3 liter Turbo posted on OfferUp , picked it up last night. It’s a Garret .63 Turbine & .60 Compressor aspect ratios. Came off a Ford Mustang SVO. This seems well sized for the SD engines, looks like it could make a ton of boost.

Album:https://ibb.co/album/eD5SJv

[wayno]

If it is for a 2.5 liter gas engine it is not likely suited for our SD series engines and this is why, most gas engines with turbos have the turbo/power start kicking in at higher RPMs(above our diesel engine redline), this is why almost all the threads I have ever read that got as far as starting the engine could not build up any significant boost(they got maybe 2lbs of boost) because the turbocharger was too big.

If you look at my turbos they are small, they came off of 1.8/1.9 liter gas engines, this way they spin up with the CFM flow our little diesel engines have, when I picked up the diesel I have in my 521 kingcab it had a larger turbo on it, the waste gate was wired shut with bailing wire, this made me think the former owner could not build up boost and is why I never tried it on the engine in my truck, now I am not saying it didn't work at all as I don't know for sure, but the waste gate wired shut is not a good sign.

If the turbo is for a 2.5 liter Ford diesel engine if they made such a thing, then it might work on your 2.2 liter diesel engine.

 

[TommyBsolid]

It’s a 2.3 Liter from a 1984~ Ford Mustang SVO. It’s gas but the engine has similar characteristics being from the same era as the SD’s. Redline on those engines was 5000~, our diesels make max HP at 4000.

Not too far off, heres a power torque curve of the Mustang.

I think since the diesel has more torque lower in the rpm range it wont have trouble spooling the turbo under load.

 

Do you know the redline of the SD series? I don’t have a tachometer on mine

[wayno]

Our SD series engines don't like it above 3000rpms, and they sound over revved in any gear except 5th over 2500rpms, but that is my opinion.

Redline is 4000rpms, and I have never been close to that rpm.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by wayno

[TommyBsolid]

Searched a few keywords to see if I could find info on what rpm this turbo reaches full boost at.

https://www.stinger-performance.com/faq.html

Quote

-Stock (83-86 Mustang/Turbo Coupe, 84-89 Merkur) Garrett/AiResearch T3: Up to about 275 rwhp. Full boost at 2500-3000 rpm or so with a few airflow mods, pulls pretty well up top. Has a very hard "kick" when boost kicks in. Great for a daily driver/street terror with minor mods. Good to 23 psi or so if you've got enough fuel, octane, intercooling, etc. to safely run that much.

Taking a second look at the power/torque curve above, you can kind of see the spool up to around 3000, hitting max boost at 2000rpm under load should be no problem. If it doesn’t work I can always go with a smaller turbo. I’m just gonna send it.

[wayno]

I guess I should have said this from the start, a turbocharger guy out in Scappose OR I talked to on the phone(he does turbos for a living) said if you are driving down the freeway at a steady 60mph and show 20psi boost(waste gate closed up tight/set to not open), your turbocharger is too small as it spins up too fast/soon, the smaller the turbo the sooner it spins up, all this is dependent on what the turbo is made for, gas turbos spin up later at a higher RPM while diesel turbos spin up sooner at a lower rpm, but diesel turbos are designed for lower RPMs.

What I got out of the conversation with this guy is bigger is not better, it's more about matching the turbo to the application, using a gas turbo on a diesel engine is not the best match as they are made to function at higher/different RPMs than our diesel engines are made for, but you could get lucky like I did and have it work out, to this day I believe I was so lucky to have found that Subaru 1.9L XT turbo, and it is even luckier that I pulled it and bought it(ignorance is bliss) as it made my SD25 engine come alive, I am so lucky I bought that turbocharger, I had no clue what I was doing back then.

 

[TommyBsolid]

I may have to bring it over to get a second opinion. I’d take a second look at your XT turbo to see how it sizes up to this one. I definitely wouldn't want to put in all the work just to find out I can‘t make boost. I was thinking maybe find a VW 1.9 TDI turbo at a junk yard

[wayno]

I don't what TDI means, but the turbocharger on my 720 is a 1.9L VW Passat turbo(around a 2000 VW Passat), we put one on my friends SD22 powered 720, it built plenty of boost and it had plenty of fuel as it got hot EGT wise, but I was not impressed with the power, I expected more, it was only at my house for one day when we installed it, maybe if it had been here for a while I/we could have figured out what the issue was like maybe the injection pump timing being wrong, he was able to get 15psi yet it was gutless in my opinion, we talked about this subject in my driveway.

I would be interested in looking at it and compare it to a couple larger turbos I have here that I didn't use because I thought they were too large and would not build up boost, but I didn't even try them, I have read so many failed attempts to turbocharge these engines where they were only able to get 2psi maybe 3psi with a larger turbocharger, but I was not there to see how they determined they were only getting a couple PSI, if they were revving it in the driveway then that was the wrong way to do it, you have to drive it under load to build PSI/boost, I can barely make my boost needle move in the driveway, but I can make over 20psi getting on the freeway(waste gate adjusted to the closed position), I now have it adjusted to not go over 15psi, on the freeway it hovers around 6psi at 75mph, if I put my foot into it and keep it there it rises way above 10psi.

I am not saying what you have will not work, but I am skeptical, putting a flange on a pipe is easy, if that turbo don't work it is easy enough to cut that flange off and put another one on, it is just more time to tear it apart, fix it and put it back together, I have done this to my 720 a few times, I believe I made 4 or 5 different turbo setups so far, but the truck/engine is in my driveway to work on when I have the time/motivation, and that one is not my daily driver, there is more room in the 720 engine compartment also, my 521 kingcab is my daily driver so I can play with the 720 dually.

There is also the turbo location, I have a 1980 720 which has a short power brake booster pedestal, 1981+ have taller pedestals which forces one to put the turbo farther forward, there are a lot of things to consider when turbocharging your 720 diesel.

I said I was lucky, let me say why, the 1985/86 Subaru XT has a special turbo, it spins up at a lower RPM than normal gas turbos, this has been mentioned on Subaru forums when discussing the XT turbo, of all the turbos I found I was so lucky to find that one, another thing to keep on mind is that my 521 kingcab is lighter than a 720, weight is always going to play a big part in the big picture. 

[TommyBsolid]

TDI is Volkswagen's turbo diesel engine. They had them as an option in all their models passat beetle jetta golf since 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDI_(engine)

It's much more suited for this build,

It almost reminds me of your XT turbo.

[wayno]

If your going to get a diesel turbocharger you likely need to get one for a 2.2 liter diesel engine as that is what you have, there are lots of 2.2L diesel turbos on ebay to choose from, I considered going that route and buying a 2.5L diesel turbocharger to see if it was better than the 1.8L gas turbocharger on my 720 but I never drive that truck anymore so I lost interest, I would rather have a real 1986 Subaru XT turbocharger if I could find one as I already know the result and am very happy with that result.

There are lots of turbochargers on ebay that say they will fit the XT but they are generic and I do not believe they are the same as a real 1986 Subaru XT turbocharger.

My Subaru XT turbocharger does look a lot like that one in your photos above, but I personally pulled it from the XT myself and it had this on it which only came on the Subaru XT.

 

 

 

 

[TommyBsolid]

Yea you did get lucky i’m jealous. I think since the TDI 1Z/AHU (turbo pictured above) is a common diesel engine, 1.9L and max hp at 4000rpm / torque at 2000rpm, this makes the turbo a perfect fit. It was introduced in 96’ so the volumetric efficiency is likely better than the SD series, the CFM should be very similar between the two. I will be on the look out for one of these turbos

[TommyBsolid]

Thinking about what I intend to use my truck for, I don’t necessarily need to have a quick acceleration and I don’t mind turbo lag. The real reason I want to turbo the diesel in the first place is to be able to have the torque of a modern-ish diesel and not a limp guzzler. Acceleration is not my concern, I dont mind spending a couple dozen seconds to get up to speed. The part that bugs me is at higher speeds it really does seem like its running out of steam. Under load I wont have any issue spooling the 2.3L turbo, will it be a slow spool... yes. Will it run out of steam on the top end... not a chance. I have a z24 truck I will be using for a while (btw just put the head back on last night, will buy fluids and spark plugs tomorrow to fire it up 🙂) I also have a 2003 330i BMW and that is a great car for when you want to go quick. I really am interested in seeing the result of having this 2.3L gas turbo on my 2.2L diesel. Again if it wont build boost I can always opt for a smaller one (It would be a 1.9L TDI turbo if I had to choose).

[wayno]

The fact is that is why I put a turbo on my trucks, I wanted HP on the freeway, around town it was fine, but every time I came to a hill it sort of aggravated me having to floor it and drop gears, truth be told I hated having to floor it and drop gears.

Having it accelerate getting on the freeway the way it does was a pleasant bonus, I really don't have any more power starting out in my 521 kingcab than it had without the turbo, but the 720 diesel engine is a different story, that one has a lot of torque, way more than the 521, but the former owner had the injection pump turned up, he wanted low RPM power, he only drove 50/55mph on the freeway(under 2000rpms), that one is not as nice on the freeway, it just don't like being up over 2500rpms, I have had it above 3000rpms, but my foot was deep into the pedal, it likes 50/55mph, my tire size might be part of the issue though.

[TommyBsolid]

Where would be the best spot to tap into an oil feed be. What about the drain, I can imagine the alternator feed and drain being convenient

[wayno]

This is where you have to get creative or know where to go to get what you need, for the oil feed you need to find a "T" that will fit the block, I have not been able to find one at the local parts stores for a very long time, they say what they have will fit but it won't because it is not a tapered thread, I buy that at "Oil Filter Services"(615 SE Market St, Portland, OR 97214), I also buy the oil feed line and fittings there also(that match each other) as I want it to look right/be right as I don't want the oil feed line blowing off because the hose clamp didn't hold the line on, also the auto parts stores have an issue with finding the oil fitting that goes into the turbo to connect the oil line to, I have things like that to show you so when you go there you will know exactly what you need.

As for the turbo drain you need to decide what you want to do, if the engine is out of the truck I would drill and tap my own drain hole beside the one for the alternator vacuum pump, my 521 has it done that way, otherwise you will need to cut the vacuum pump drain line and put a "Tee" in it, the drain line from the turbo is a lot bigger than that drain line, I helped my friend do it to his truck and nothing leaked, but we talked about this for quite a while and he came here with all the parts needed, I don't remember all that was needed anymore, and I had extra turbo parts here because I figured he would need them, the coolant lines connecting to the turbo are also needed, I believe that is why I went to the wrecking yard, to raid the VW Passat turbos for the needed parts, both coolant fittings and tubes and the oil drain fitting/tube.

15 minutes ago, TommyBsolid said:

Where would be the best spot to tap into an oil feed be. What about the drain, I can imagine the alternator feed and drain being convenient

 

Another thing you need to deal with the the turbo configuration, this is a custom turbo setup, you have to adjust the turbo to fit your needs(inlets/outlets pointed the right directions and the oil feed line on the top, drain on the bottom, sometimes you have to settle to keep the waste gate functioning properly, I had years to figure this out in my driveway, it was a freaking miracle we got my friends done in one day, but I did almost all the prep work myself to help my friend do this as painless as possible as he has a wife/life that limits his free time, she called a few times while we were trying to get it done wondering when he was going to be home, and everything that needed done was not done, but he drove it home without an exhaust system without any issues.

[TommyBsolid]

I found the model number for the TDI turbo, it’s a GT15. Found a used one online and am in the process of having it shipped. I was going to use the 2.3l turbo but I really don't think it would be a good result. I’ll keep you posted on what happens.

http://turbochargerspecs.blogspot.com/2011/02/garrett-gt15-gt1544-both-150-hp-turbos.html?m=1

Edited February 18, 2020 by TommyBsolid

[TommyBsolid]

Got lucky with this find, barely any shaft play.

Model#: 028145701j

These came on the mark 3 Jetta/Golf TDIs with the AHU engine code. A bit rusted, good news its been sitting for a bit rather than wearing out 😏. Bad news I will most likely have to take off the compressor and turbine housings to clean them 😒. The compressor housing has EGR residue, leading me to believe the EGR piping was pre-turbo on the TDI. I inserted a quarter in the photos for scale.

 

Album: https://ibb.co/album/c6MXmF

 

 

 

[wayno]

My Subaru XT turbocharger sat for years on a shelf under my patio roof outside in my back yard, first I spun it with my finger, then I started my work truck and used a stick to hold the engine up around 2000rpms, I then held the turbo exhaust inlet up to the work trucks exhaust pipe and it spun up so I called it good, but mine was not near as rusty as that one you have in them photos.

 

I have found that taking turbochargers apart sometimes has consequences, shit breaks, my XT turbo has a small exhaust leak between the center section and exhaust section, I cannot get any of them bolts to move anymore, it is not a large enough leak to cause an issue or for me to hear, so I leave it alone as my engine runs so good it is not worth taking the chance of breaking one of them bolts off in the exhaust housing.

 

Do you have the exhaust outlet fitting for that turbocharger?

[TommyBsolid]

It’s a generic GT15 flange.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32954261270.html

 

I could try to make my own, the dimensions are posted on the blog I linked

earlier.

 

It looks a bit rusted from weathering, rather than heat expansion/contraction. I don’t think ill have too much difficulty removing the bolts without snapping them. I could also squirt carb cleaner in the compressor housing to clean it. Idk what I would do about the turbine. I would rather take it apart and clean it up rather than running the risk of having rust go through the turbine wheel at speed.

[TommyBsolid]

FS5W71B. Had a bit of trouble taking off the front case of the transmission. It would slide off about 1/4” and get jammed against the front input shaft bearing.

I wedged a piece of wood in between the center plate and the front case to keep the case from sliding back.

 

I then used a punch to lightly and evenly knock back the front input shaft bearing.(The input shaft has about 3/8” of free back and forth movement)

 

Success!

Edited February 27, 2020 by TommyBsolid

[TommyBsolid]

Searched all over for a closed end crowfoot wrench with 1/2" drive to be able to torque the mainshaft nut. I will take apart the transmission off the frame I towed and replace the bearings if necessary, I didn't realize the guy had basically drained the transmission by pulling out the speedometer gear and then putting it back in. I should have disconnected the driveshaft to keep the output shaft from spinning, oh well... good thoughts come later.

I was able to find one in a dark corner of the internet: https://www.quadratec.com/products/16312_1120.htm

I measured the main shaft nut on my '82 transmission and it is 38mm or 1-1/2". Does anyone know if this is true for all 71Bs? How about 71Cs? I was reading a pdf about the 71C and it mentioned the main shaft nut is 41mm or 1-5/8". Could anyone confirm or deny this allegation?

https://ww2-secure.justanswer.com/uploads/MU/05muranosl/2013-01-18_205544_mt.pdf

search for ST22520000 in the pdf. My '82 FSM has this part number as well for the tool, but I measured my '82 FS5W71B and its 38mm?

This transmission could very well have been rebuilt. The bearings look excellent, there are also signs of someone prying & scraping gasket material off. The main shaft nut is barely staked. It's certainly possible someone used a different sized nut during rebuild.

Edited March 2, 2020 by TommyBsolid

[TommyBsolid]

It’s 3/8” thick, has a high pitch ring so it must be hardened. Very nice and useful tool.

[wayno]

You making any progress on this?

 

I know a guy that appears to be getting out of diesel 720 trucks, he has diesel parts, you need anything?