1974 620 Original Head Lamps: Halogen or Incandescent?

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I need to replace a high beam and do not want to increase current through the headlight switch. 

 

EDIT2:  From the Owners Manual, 4000 series bulbs are used:

Inner: High:  4001  37.5w

Outer: Low:  4002  37.5w/50w

 

It is not clear what was OE on the 1974 620:

 

*) Online parts guides show a 3.91 amp H5001 Halogen.  (But they also so this same light for a 1963 Studebaker which is incorrect - I believe the correct bulb is the 2.93 amp 4001 Incadescent.  These guides are showing an upgrade.  NOTE:  if you do run the halogens in the Studebaker, you will probably trip the circuit breaker if it is decades old - this is also quite interesting when driving at night and your headlights go out.)

 

*) Articles say that American cars did not use Halogen Sealed Beams until 1979 even though foreign countries had been using them for years.

 

*) I can find no information on the high beam factory part number 02260-122k0 nor an interchange to Sylvania or Philips.  

 

*) I can find no specs in the FSM.

 

If I was going to upgrade, I'd go LED's but there aren't any that look OE and also a problem that yes, they have the correct PARxx glass, but no DOT beam pattern - in otherwords just like outdoor flood and spot lights.  So much for LED's.  (Yes, I did consider the "ring" lights for the highs since the Red Rings (I have Red truck)  would only be seen when they're on.  But that's just too squirrel-ly for me.)

 

For all bulb specs, check out Wagner Lighting Spec Guide - Federal Mogul

 

EDIT NOTE:  There is a 5001 non-halogen but it is 3.91 amps which is a TOTAL LOSER.  The H5001 is some nice bang for the buck:  (all info from the Wagner Guide)

 4001 2.93 amps 29k lumens  (2.93 * 12.8) = 37.5 watts  

 5001 3.91 amps 35k lumens  (3.91 * 12.8) = 50 watts

H5001 3.91 amps 55k lumens  

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Cardinal Grammeter

[datzenmike]

Tungsten incandescent. I had a new '76 B-210 and they were tungsten. When I upgraded to Halogen the fuses blew.

 

Stock are sealed beam so LEDs you would need to get H4? reflectors. Also unless you spend $300 to $400 on them they are made in China crap that claim huge BS lumen outputs that are no better than halogen lamps, not to mention the shitty beam patterns that blind oncoming traffic..  

 

Wire your new halogen high beams to a relay with 12 v directly from the battery using the stock wiring for the relay trigger. This will eliminate about 20 feet of voltage dropping 16 gage wire.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I'm going to have to check and see if there are halogens in it right now.

 

Maybe I could get away with H5001 halogen high beams only - that's a 2 amp total increase.

 

Someone should make a "plug-n-play" headlight relay that plugs into the headlight and then the harness plugs into it.  Complete with self-contained fuse.  Would only need to run a 12v wire...

 

EDIT:  HaHa, I spoke too soon!   Appears there are tons of outfits making a complete harness that does just what I described - both for 2 and 4 headlight systems.  The only connections you have to do are a couple grounds and a hot wire.  They have plugs for the OE harness and bulbs but you do have to bolt the relays down somewhere.  Price is around $20. 

 

So might be doing the upgrade  EXCEPT I will have to check to see what is in my 620 because the lights - especially the brights are strong enough to not leave me wanting.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Cardinal Grammeter

[banzai510(hainz)]

Isn’t high beam 50 watts stock?

putting in a 55 watt high beam isn’t going to make a big difference on the wiring.So I don’t think a wiring change is needed.

Its the low/high lamps that you need the H4 relay harness as they usually are 35 watts both both elements 

 

Delta lights are made in the USA and have stock looking LED type also 5.75in size .I think it was a plug and play but that’s all I know about these.

 

stock 510 is 5001 & 5006 lamps I believe.

Edited November 12, 2019 by banzai510(hainz)

[Cardinal Grammeter]

If OE was incandescent, there are 2 possibilities:

1) 5001 50 watt 3.91 amp load  ( it's the same load as the H5001 halogen)

2) 4001 37 watt 2.93 amp load

 

This is really interesting, how do you determine what the OE obsolete light was?  

 

Delta stuff looks good but the 5.75" are $320 a pair ad the 7" are $365 which is about 10x what I want to spend (!)

 

EDIT:  Home Depot has the H5006 special price $5.88 which is about 1/2 price.

 

EDIT2:  Called Wagner Tech and they have no information on original bulb specs - they suggested the Owner's Manual which in some cases has info NOT in the FSM.  Of course I don't think I have one.  Anyone?

 

EDIT3:  Found the Owners Manual, 4000 series bulbs are used:

Inner: High:  4001  37.5w

Outer: Low:  4002  37.5w/50w

 

NOTE:  the OM has ALL the bulb specs and wattages.

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Cardinal Grammeter

[FrankRizzo]

I ended up using Hella 5 3/4 H4 low beams and H1 high beams and swapping the bulbs for LED's. They dont look stock, but do have kind of an 80's look because we were using Hella's a lot back then for roadracing. I have a pic in my thread someplace. They really work great - but like Mike said the whole thing was expensive. I already had the relay set up, but was doing this to get more lumens...

.

[banzai510(hainz)]

http://www.deltalights.com/~deltalig/?q=store#!/Classic-5-¾-Universal-Hi-Lo-Beam-LED-Headlight-Set-PAIR/p/29120229/category=2060180

 

 

Frank I would too like to see these LEDs conversions as I run Hella and Cibie H4 lamp housings with H4 harness. Highs are just stock lamps

[Cardinal Grammeter]

EDIT:  Mike, do you know what the Halogen wattage was that blew your fuses?  The following here suggests that a 4-light Halogen upgrade does not increase wattage:

 

I found a 74 and 76 Owner's Manual and the OE were 4000 series bulbs:

 

Inner: High:  4001  37.5w

Outer: Low:  4002  37.5w/50w

 

WHAT I'VE BEEN RUNNING FOR 5 YEARS w/o ISSUE:

 

Just checked and I'm running H5006 Wagner Halogen Lows and Koito Highs (might these be the OE bulbs?).

 

Get this, the H5006's are 35w/35w which is lower than the OE 37.5w/50w 4002

 

Running H5000 series would result in lower current draw on both Low & High beams:

High:

 4002/4001:   2*50 + 2*37.5 = 175w

H5006/H5001:   2*35 + 2*50 = 170w

 

EDIT:  An HALOGEN UPGRADE is possible too:  The Sylvania H5000XV XtraVision series has the same wattage as the H5000 series

Edited November 13, 2019 by Cardinal Grammeter

[banzai510(hainz)]

My Brain is hurting

Buy 5001 and 5006 that close to stock  =DONE

 

what was wrong with the LED ones I posted. they use less current .

5006 is 35 watters(LAME)  LOWS are most of the driving so get H4w harness and use the 55 watt at low

 

Get H4 harness andlamps Leave the stock HIGHs alone done

[Cardinal Grammeter]

2 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

My Brain is hurting

Buy 5001 and 5006 that close to stock  =DONE

 

what was wrong with the LED ones I posted. they use less current .

5006 is 35 watters(LAME)  LOWS are most of the driving so get H4w harness and use the 55 watt at low

 

Get H4 harness andlamps Leave the stock HIGHs alone done

 

Yeah, mine is too.  Wattage info on bulbs is hard to find and forget about OE specs unless you have the Owner's Manual.

 

The 4000 & 5000 series are obsolete.  The H5000 & H5000XV series are what is available.

 

The "Problem" was concern of switch/fuse issues since the H5001 High beam draws 50w instead of the OE 37.5w .  However further study revealed if paired with the H5006 Low beams which draw LESS then OE (35w instead of 50w) you end up with a net decrease of total High beam current.  

 

The LED ones are over $650 not counting the wiring.  Too expensive.

 

Converting from OE 4000 series to H5000 series has serious increase in High Beam brightness without any additional power requirements:

Low:  19k to 20k

High: 40k to 70k 

 

And the Sylvania H5000XV XtrVision offer better vision due to color temperature with no additional power requirements:

[demo243]

I think your over thinking this... to each their own... but the simplest way to improve your headlights is to upgrade to H4 bulbs with a modern relay set up.

 

You can pick up a hella h4 conversion housing and bulbs for about $70 on amazon and add in a few bucks for a relay set up, run a couple new wires and your good to go.

 

This is what I just put in my 620--

 

HELLA 002850811 135mm H4 High/Low Beam Halogen Conversion Headlamp Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G7A9YS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_471YDbFQJM96G

 

I swapped the inner bulbs for some sealed yellow bulbs on a stand alone switch 

Edited November 13, 2019 by demo243

[demo243]

46 minutes ago, demo243 said:

I think your over thinking this... to each their own... but the simplest way to improve your headlights is to upgrade to H4 bulbs with a modern relay set up.

 

You can pick up a hella h4 conversion housing and bulbs for about $70 on amazon and add in a few bucks for a relay set up, run a couple new wires and your good to go.

 

This is what I just put in my 620--

 

HELLA 002850811 135mm H4 High/Low Beam Halogen Conversion Headlamp Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G7A9YS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_471YDbFQJM96G

 

I swapped the inner bulbs for some sealed yellow bulbs on a stand alone switch 

 

Well maybe it's not the simplest but it is tried and true 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Isn’t there 2 fuses for the headlites?

[FrankRizzo]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:31 AM, banzai510(hainz) said:

http://www.deltalights.com/~deltalig/?q=store#!/Classic-5-¾-Universal-Hi-Lo-Beam-LED-Headlight-Set-PAIR/p/29120229/category=2060180

 

 

Frank I would too like to see these LEDs conversions as I run Hella and Cibie H4 lamp housings with H4 harness. Highs are just stock lamps

 

Hella H4/H1 with incandescent 55/50 watt bulbs on the left, same glass with LED's on the right. I dont really remember the LED wattage, but they are way brighter than the Halogens and about half the current. I did not pick any kind of crazy bulbs either. It feels like they could melt paint on high beams. Im already wired with independent relays.

.

 

You can kinda see what they look like NOT on here:

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

YOu have a link on these.

Prefer Japan /German/USAmade version if possible.

 

I looks up H4 LEDs and there is a tone of them

[FrankRizzo]

PM sent, I just got them on Amazon...

[datzenmike]

It was for my 521 and they were GE sealed beams. Halogen are just regular tungsten filaments but a better gas inside that helps plate the evaporated tungsten back onto the filament. You'll notice that when halogen bulbs get old they get darker? That's the tungsten plating onto the glass. Because of this they can run hotter, and to run hotter they draw slight;y more current. This was the '70s and I just put larger fuses in, I mean, I knew more than Nissan, right?

 

LEDs are too expensive for good ones and the market is flooded with crap from China that are barely as bright as the originals (although ALL make extravagant  claims of lumins) and a shitty beam pattern. Change one side and compare. I think the 5 3/4 motorcycle LEDs or HIDs are OK if you get the projector type with the little magnifying lens.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Frank wrote back I will have to see about the Chinese stuff

 

don't know if the hole in back is big enough esp for a 51 with those buckets  510 Im sure it fine as they are open

 

but these have to be good

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Delta-01-1139-LED2-5-3-4-Inch-Hi-Low-Beam-Headlights,139092.html

 

and the conversion

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Delta-01-1304-LED4-LED-H4-Headlight-Bulb-Conversion-Kit-25-Watt,139086.html

Edited November 15, 2019 by banzai510(hainz)