What set up do you have ?

[Payco]

When my 1600 SSS Coupe arrives from South Africa one of the stages on my project with the car will be to lower the suspension and possibly change the rims. First question is what set up to most guys run on here for street use  in terms of rims and tyre sizes and suspension drop, around an inch and a half.

Should I be getting the rims sorted and then the suspension in that order ?.

 

Interested to see the look and set up on some the cars you guys own and are running.

 

Martin

[datzenmike]

I would sort the suspension first then get shoes that fit it.

 

For an inch and a half you can lower on the stock strut tubes rather than cutting them down and finding shorter strut inserts (shocks) to fit them. Many go with adjustable coil overs but this is too much money for something that gets adjusted once and then is along for the ride. You can cut the lower spring perch off, grind down the old weld so it can slide up or down the tube and use a split collar to support it in the lowered position.

 

 

 

 

Lowered ride height and it's totally adjustable if you want, for about $25 for the split collars. If you have an angle grinder and a cut off disc, although you can use a hacksaw. The split collars are rated at about 5,000 lbs each or carrying 2 1/2 510s on each fender.

 

A word of caution if lowering on stock struts. 1 1/2 to 2" is about it. More and you risk bottoming the strut on a bad bump. You are also 1 1/2 to 2  inches closer to the ground and as stock springs are rather soft anyway it makes sense to stiffen them or replace with stiffer ones that will reduce your car sagging down and hitting the road on high speed dips. Firmer springs reduce body roll and just feel better. You can shorten the stock springs which has the effect of making them stiffer. There is a very simple mathematical formula for working out the spring rate and calculating how many coil(s) to remove to get what you want. Naturally be conservative as once cut you can't go back. My 710 springs worked out to about 100 pounds per inch (lb/in.) of travel. By cutting 1.25 coils off, I increased it to 150 lb/in. This is me, you may like 200 or more, everyone's comfort level is different. If you have the cut off wheel, stiffening the springs (increasing the spring rate) costs nothing.

 

Dampers (shocks). Once the strut is out you can disassemble it and see if the original oil bath dampers are still in it. If they have been replaced with dry inserts you have no choice but to replace with new inserts, but if they are original you can drain the old thin watery hydraulic oil out and replace with much thicker motorcycle fork oil. Thicker oil resists being pushed through the compression and rebound valves and this increases the firmness of the shocks. I used Bell Ray 20w fork oil, about $17 for a liter which is enough for 3 struts.

 

 

 

 

So in closing, if you have a few tools and an afternoon (and $50) you can give your 510 an adjustable ride height, give it a firmer ride and renew and increase the shock absorbers all for well under $50. You can say "Yeah, I spent $600 on new oil overs.... or

 

 

[r0p0doe]

I'm running 280zx struts on my 71 I bought from TechnoToyTuning(TTT) which bolt right up. And I got a set of chasing J's coilovers in the rear. I'm running diamind racing Steelies that are 15x7 in the front and 15x8 in the rear with no offset, po was running 17s on my car so the inner fender lips were already slightly rolled. I spoke to some other guys before buying wheels to make sure they were going to fit and i wasn't going to have to hack my car to achieve my goal.Havent posted oics in ages on here so hopefully they work...

 

 

[datzenmike]

ZX struts are an excellent up grade. They are shorter than the stock 510 strut to begin with and have massive calipers and a vented rotor.

 

 

They don't clear the stock 13" rims but...

 

On 10/30/2019 at 8:59 PM, Tedman said:

The material on the 280ZX calipers that you grind off to fit inside 13" wheels probably weighs less than a caliper bolt.

 

After grinding:

 

 

[Payco]

Guys. Your responses, advice and experience is priceless. Thanks for continuing to build my knowledge base on these cars. Martin.

[TiMopar]

Hi, I am in the UK also, used 280zx struts with Techno Toy Tuning coilover kit and a Willwood brake kit ( using 15" wheels ). For the rear you can use GAZ coilovers ( available direct or through Burtons ) to suit a Mk2 Escort.

[yenpit]

..........don't forget that the 280ZX (NOT 280Z!!) struts DECREASE the track width (can't remember how much, maybe 1/2 inch per side??), thus  the FRONT wheel offset/backspacing can be different.  Like datzenmike said, decide on what strut assemblies etc you want to use, THEN buy the wheels to fit!

 

Also, some aftermarket 13 inch wheels will clear the larger ZX calipers, but I've never seen a chart or listing!  Here in the USA, 13 inch tire choices are terribly limited, so most are going to 14 inch (still limited tire choice) or 15 inch (lots of tire choices!).

[BrandonS]

50 minutes ago, yenpit said:

..........don't forget that the 280ZX (NOT 280Z!!) struts DECREASE the track width (can't remember how much, maybe 1/2 inch per side??), thus  the FRONT wheel offset/backspacing can be different.  Like datzenmike said, decide on what strut assemblies etc you want to use, THEN buy the wheels to fit!

 

Also, some aftermarket 13 inch wheels will clear the larger ZX calipers, but I've never seen a chart or listing!  Here in the USA, 13 inch tire choices are terribly limited, so most are going to 14 inch (still limited tire choice) or 15 inch (lots of tire choices!).

 

This is true.  Also note that if you narrow your track width you should consider adjustable camber plates so that you can bring you camber back in line.  Since our cars are a MacPherson setup, the only way to change camber is via control arm length and strut top mount location (adjustable via adjustable camber plates).  If you go with an out of the box suspension you'll more than likely end up with camber plates, but if you go with sourcing your own struts and make coilovers as DatsunMike posted, make sure you source some camber plates to complete the setup.
 

Here's some information on dimensions of common strut tube assemblies:
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=31438&p=271510&hilit=spindle+angle#p271510

Edited November 6, 2019 by BrandonS

[paradime]

Lowering the front 1 1/2" you're fairly safe, but any more you'll need bump steer spacers. Also. lowering the rear changes it's camber and toe. You may get away with an inch or so, but further you'll need to correct for that change. "Slotting" is easiest and most common solution.

 

I'm on ZX strut Techno Toy Tuning stage 2 adjustable coil overs 

Willwood big brake kit

T3 camber/caster plates

Enkei Compe 15X7 22+ offset with 205/50 R15 fits rear by rolling the inner fender lip

 

Take note: With sticky 8" tires you'll find the steering becomes very heavy witch exacerbates issues with the sloppy steering box. I would add a T3 steering brace. Not perfect but helps. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by paradime

[datzenmike]

I'm around 1 1/2 to 2" lowered and Had to make 1/2" bump steering spacers. I made them 1/4" each and expected to stack them to get the correction needed. Tried 1/2" after some careful measuring and it was perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

[datzenmike]

3 hours ago, BrandonS said:

 

This is true.  Also note that if you narrow your track width you should consider adjustable camber plates so that you can bring you camber back in line.  Since our cars are a MacPherson setup, the only way to change camber is via control arm length and strut top mount location (adjustable via adjustable camber plates).  If you go with an out of the box suspension you'll more than likely end up with camber plates, but if you go with sourcing your own struts and make coilovers as DatsunMike posted, make sure you source some camber plates to complete the setup.
 

Here's some information on dimensions of common strut tube assemblies:
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=31438&p=271510&hilit=spindle+angle#p271510

 

The 710 top hat studs are offset. By placing them on a 510 you can turn them and move the tops of the strut inwards maybe 1/2"

 

[BrandonS]

20 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

The 710 top hat studs are offset. By placing them on a 510 you can turn them and move the tops of the strut inwards maybe 1/2"

 

 

That's good to know!  Any idea what ballpark this ends up in for camber?  For -1.5* mine on camber plates seem to be much more inboard than that (is that a 510 even or did you just post it to show the top mount).  Obviously ride height factors into it.

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by BrandonS

[datzenmike]

It probably is. My 710 came with Moog plates on it and that was common back then. I heard the 710 had problems with camber on stock struts.

[510revisited]

So, I've got a simple question. I always read these suspension setup threads cause I'd like to tune my setup too. But not a lot of people mention the actual ride... does it handle good, does it bounce like crazy? Ok, maybe a couple questions.

 

For me, I'm aiming for a "factory" like upgrade. If datsun were to have offered a sport package or something... not race car but just a wee bit better-er-er. As a warning, I'm a shade tree. So this may all be shit!! I'm "PLANNING" on zx struts up front for the brakes with GC coilovers and kyb inserts. I do wanna do some autocross. But how bad/good does the track width reduction change the handling? Atm I'm up in the air for the rear. Thinking diy coilover. I do have kyb corolla shocks in the back but I think o.e. springs. I'm thinking 150lb or 200lb springs all around cause I'm under the impression stock is about 90 ish or so. Oh, and all polyurethane brushes minus the rods from lca to body.  Those are just new rubber. 

[datzenmike]

For better er er, than worn out stock bushings, replace the original bushings with rubber. They grip both parts and twist internally, have superior compliance than polly and don't transmit vibration as much.... and that's the whole point of rubber isolation. Poly is a purely 'race car' thing where every bit of suspension softness is  a disadvantage. They are unnecessarily harsher riding on a street car and because there is little give they are forced to chafe against one or both metal parts they are in contact with and this leads to wear and squeaks unless maintained and replaced as needed. (like a 'race car') NEVER replace the tension rod bushings with polly because they need to compress as the rod swings at the lower control arm end. Polly prevents this, forcing the rod to bend and there's real risk of cracking from metal fatigue.

 

Only place I would use it is on a sway bar. Damn few people have the need for poly suspension parts. For a street car the disadvantages outweigh the gains... if any. Something to consider....

 

 

Springs

150 lb/in is a good starting place for fronts and backs but be aware the rear control arm and spring location forms a cantilever. The ratio is 3.8 so to effectively 'see' 150 the spring must be 570 lb/in because of the mechanical advantage. (leverage) For a good replacement spring the Dodge Ram 50 truck front coil springs are ideal and available. It's already been worked out that cutting the spring to 9.5 " length provides 155 lb/in. There's a good write up for this swap... Volume 9 issue 2...https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByCvxnHNk90SYzc4N2E1MWEtMzg0MC00YTE4LTkxZGQtM2RjODA5ODA1YjU1

 

You can put coil overs on the rear shocks. Here the shock is pretty much over the axle so just get 150 springs. The shock mount isn't really meant to be load bearing but it seems people can get away with this.

 

 

[BrandonS]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:05 AM, 510revisited said:

So, I've got a simple question. I always read these suspension setup threads cause I'd like to tune my setup too. But not a lot of people mention the actual ride... does it handle good, does it bounce like crazy? Ok, maybe a couple questions.

 

For me, I'm aiming for a "factory" like upgrade. If datsun were to have offered a sport package or something... not race car but just a wee bit better-er-er. As a warning, I'm a shade tree. So this may all be shit!! I'm "PLANNING" on zx struts up front for the brakes with GC coilovers and kyb inserts. I do wanna do some autocross. But how bad/good does the track width reduction change the handling? Atm I'm up in the air for the rear. Thinking diy coilover. I do have kyb corolla shocks in the back but I think o.e. springs. I'm thinking 150lb or 200lb springs all around cause I'm under the impression stock is about 90 ish or so. Oh, and all polyurethane brushes minus the rods from lca to body.  Those are just new rubber. 

 

Ride quality is way too subjective to garner much info from by means of a description online of someone's setup.  This is for a myriad of reasons from personal experiences, previous cars driven, to what they want to utilize the car for.  There's a ton of variables that go into someone's impression on it.  As an example, even tire size and type of tire will effect how it feels.  As for the setup you're looking at; I doubt the decreased track width would matter much, if at all.  The geometry stays essentially the same as our control arms are the same length and top mount is the at the same point so nothing changes there for geometry as long as you adjust for camber.  I can't see a difference between running ZX struts with a wide tire and a lower offset wheel that fills the wheel well vs stock 510 struts and a wide tire on a higher offset wheel that also feels the wheel well.  You end up with the same amount of rubber in the exact same location. 

My car had 5kg (280'ish lb/in?) springs up front when I got it along with Tokiko strut inserts.  It wasn't too bad, but I'd say compliantly stiff side.  To compensate, I would lower my tire pressure a little and it was fine.  With 185/60r14 tires there's enough tire they can act as suspension themselves LOL.  The rear springs I have no idea what rate they were, but I think pretty high.  The car also had Tokiko shocks in the back but they definitely did not keep up with the spring rate and were, IMO, bouncy and uncontrolled.  So as far as suggested spring rates, I see 200-400 recommended by people for in the front.  200 probably being what you would call stock sporty and 400; well I'd imagine pretty stiff.  I have also seen people run much higher than that, but I can't see how that would function well on normal streets that aren't always the smoothest. 

For the rear it's a completely different story as DatzenMike pointed out.  You have a leverage advantage from the semi-trailing arm setup so you need a stronger spring.  I've seen people using 800-1000lb springs back here (seen being in reference to the internet I have no friends with 510's).  Since I have no idea the spring rate of mine, I can't offer you a personal suggestion.  I can say though, if you want to save money you can buy a spring twice the length you require and half the spring rate you want and cut it in half.  When you cut a spring in half you effectively double it's spring rate.  Finally, the other option on the rear is instead of running a divorced shock/spring setup you leave the spring out and run springs on a coilover setup.  You can do anything from an out-of-the-box setup from FutoFab, Techno Toy Tuning, Troy Ermish Racing, etc etc etc, to the QA1 setups you can find here on the board via a tutorial or something you come up with yourself.  

I would suggest though; if at all in your budget, get adjustable dampers.  If you get your springs close you can fine tune it with the damper.  Additionally, the adjustable dampers will allow you some degree of environmental tuning.  On the road you can loosen them up and then if you want to do autocross put them to a stiffer setting.  In any case though, best of luck to you and I hope you find or put together a nice setup that will work for you.

Edited November 12, 2019 by BrandonS

[Jesse C.]

I just combined these...

 

 

With my 200SX struts...

 

 

To make these....

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Jesse C.

[edekalil]

My two 2door cars that are all together are stock but the one that is all apart will have:

280zx struts w/ adjustable  coil overs bump steer spacers and camber caster adjusters. Finned aluminum drums on rear w/ old school springs to lower it and slotted cross member adjustable for camber and caster.

An L20b already been to the machine shop ready to build slightly bored out with a mild street cam and duel carb setup not sure if I’ll go with the flat top su or Mikuni setup I have. 5 speed transmission from a 280zx And I want a higher geared r180 or r200 lsd rear end the one I have is geared to low. Trying to get some weight transferred to the rear of the car so battery will be in the trunk too. I do have a full set of poly bushings but will will use a combination of rubber with some poly.

Edited December 14, 2019 by edekalil