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Nana Spec 69' 510

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What sort of throttle bodies and manifold are you going to use with the efi? Dcoe throttle bodies?

Edited by nad015

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3 hours ago, nad015 said:

What sort of throttle bodies and manifold are you going to use with the efi? Dcoe throttle bodies?

 

The TBs I'm using are these ones...

 

 

They're an old mechanical injection setup from the 70's. They were originally made for an ACVW motor for speedway racing. I bought them off a guys some years back intending to put them on some sort of hot-rod. When I compared their port spacing to the Datsun port spacing it was about 10mm different. So my machinist friend is making an adaptor plate to go between the castings and the head.I've still got to sort out an injector rail and a throttle position sensor, but it should work out ok. They're 45mm, so about right for the datto.

 

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Interesting, they look pretty good!

are they individual ports at the manifold face of the throttle bodies? It doesn’t just go into one big oval does it?

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21 hours ago, nad015 said:

Interesting, they look pretty good!

are they individual ports at the manifold face of the throttle bodies? It doesn’t just go into one big oval does it?

 

No, the TBs have individual ports. Should work well I reckon, so does my machinist friend. He built a slide throttle setup for a BB Chev years ago!

 

On the subject of old parts, I was looking at some old parts on line yesterday. I asked about a fuel tank with a collection tank welded on the bottom for EFI. The seller got back to me this morning and told me I could have it, just come grab it. Then I found out it was 200 miles away in Canberra. Oh...

 

My day at work didn't end well yesterday. My boss dropped a bomb on me last thing and I went home wondering if I even wanted to stay. Course, that's not really an option at the mo with COVID so I'm forced to suck it up and deal with some pretty childish people. So it didn't take me long this morning to decide I wanted to get the hell out for the day and roadtrip for Datsun parts. My daughter has been trying to get her hours up for her learner's license so she jumped in the car and drove for 6 1/2 hours and over 300 miles today. Only her second time on a freeway.

 

 

  

Click through the pics above and see what I got. Clint, the seller was incredibly generous to me. He's really nice guy with a VG20DET powered 510. That's right, 2.0L V6 Turbo. He's cleaning out his shed and was happy to give most of his parts away as long as they were useful to me. I can't thank him enough. He drove half an hour out from Canberra to meet us so we wouldn't have to drive all the way in. 

 

What I actually paid for was...

A87 L18 cylinder head - recently rebuilt and skimmed.

 

What I got for free...

1968-69 L16 rocker cover

Rally car extended lower control arms

Rally car fuel tank with collection tank for EFI

Four 13x5" turbine style rims

 

I'm most excited about the rocker cover and I always expected it would be difficult to find one. I need to find an oil cap for that. Any pointers on where to get one would be great. The turbine rims are going to my mate, Lachie with the 1200 sedan. He's super stoked and kicked me some cash for "shipping", which covers what I paid for the head. So my missus is happy, I've got bunch of useful hot-up bits and Clint's shed is emptier. We also dropped in on my brother on the way home and had a jam with his son. My bro is a kickass guitarist and his oldest son is a freak on the drums. Needless to say I came home a lot happier this evening. 

 

I guess I should stop collecting parts and actually fix my car now, eh? Monday is a public holiday so I'll tinker a bit more then. 😉 

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Managed to find a stock style cap for 20 bucks so I ordered that.

 

Back to the real work finally today after I spent most of it buying insulation for our roof (20 year old house has none, would you believe?), then driving to our favorite burrito restaurant.

 

 

After drilling for hours... Ok, it felt like hours, I was able to get the drop panel out ok. I found an extra little bit of rust I'll want to patch, but aside from that it was straight forward enough. Thats when things ground to a halt. Although I'd got the old panel out, for the life of me, I cannot see how the new one will go in. I've done a bit of fettling, but there's something weird going on. I decided to stop before I did something I might regret.

 

Here's the old and the new.

IMG20200608175019.jpg

Edited by slowlearner

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Looking good! Always fun trying to sort fitment issues with new panels that should just drop in. As you say, good to take a break and come back another day sometimes.

 

What spot weld bits are you using? I've been using a specialized Blair cutter set - not the cheapest but it cuts like butter and doesn't wear out.

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11 hours ago, Noll said:

Looking good! Always fun trying to sort fitment issues with new panels that should just drop in. As you say, good to take a break and come back another day sometimes.

 

What spot weld bits are you using? I've been using a specialized Blair cutter set - not the cheapest but it cuts like butter and doesn't wear out.

 

I've got a cobalt bit I bought years ago now. Works ok, but the tip is getting a little blunt. I gather they're nearly impossible to sharpen.

 

BTW, when you're installing a new panel, do you drill holes in the panel for the new welds? What size holes do you drill?

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11 minutes ago, slowlearner said:

 

I've got a cobalt bit I bought years ago now. Works ok, but the tip is getting a little blunt. I gather they're nearly impossible to sharpen.

 

BTW, when you're installing a new panel, do you drill holes in the panel for the new welds? What size holes do you drill?

 

Yeah, I always drill new plug-weld holes to replicate the original spot welds. Depends on what drill bit I have handy, as long as it's somewhere in the 7-8mm range or equivalent.

 

you can see 'em here on the taillight panel before I welded it. Some are bigger/kinda ugly due to being made with a spot-weld cutter which is no big deal, but I find somewhere around 8mm is the sweet spot for that balance of a quick weld while still having enough contact patch to be strong. I've heard stories of stuff separating because someone did a way too small hole and barely any weld was connecting the parts, not a good thing. For doing the plug welding itself, I start the weld on the underlying panel, and basically go in a circle, kinda like a soft-serve ice cream. You'll be able to see when the weld puddle blobs over the outside edge of the hole, and if you stop at the right time it'll be almost flush, requiring very little cleanup.

49917896741_acbd907083_b.jpg

Edited by Noll
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I've been distracted by things like house insulation, but I have a working temp sensor for the motor, yay! I get to keep the factory temp sender, so that the dash still works.

 

 

IMG20200614161000.jpg

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Not heaps to update, but a few little things. 

 

On the bodywork front, I've finally managed to get the drop panel in position.

 

relaH58.jpg

 

It fits ok, but I ended up having to cut a slot in the back of the car to get it in. 

 

Ntt3WIr.jpg

 

I suspect, most people would just cut more of the quarter panel off to get it in, but I'm trying to avoid that if I can for now. I figure I can fill it with weld later. I'm good at filling holes. 😄 On reflection, I think I am going to try that "overlap" panel technique. After all, what can possible go wrong.

 

CJt2kqs.jpg

 

I also managed to find an oil cap for the 68-69 L16 rocker cover, but of course it didn't fit when it first arrived.

 

Vl62fwQ.jpg

 

What started off as a few "kisses"  from the grinder turned into some heavier "massages". Fits ok now.

 

I'd have liked to get more done, but work and family challenges have had my mind in other places. My boss actually wanted me to weld an alloy rim he'd found to a stainless steel washing machine drum to make a fire pit. I had to laugh. He looked a bit sheepish when I told him, "Umm, no. That won't work. Find a steel rim." He used to be an auditor so metallurgy isn't his strong suit. 😉 

Edited by slowlearner

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Today was a bit of a mixed bag. First the good... Having established that the bottom edge of the rear inner wheel arch was too thin and nasty to try welding things too, I cut it out and patched it.

 

S2lEc3x.jpg

 

tpAmAsc.jpg

 

9rkipBp.jpg

 

Nothing anyone will ever see or award me for, but decent welds. Decent grinding. Altogether very solid and acceptable. Then I went out to pick up a child and have lunch. Having come back, I got the drop panel ready for installation. A heap of 8mm holes, grinding the paint back and then weld through primer. Got it clamped in place and started welding...

 

yfrBuqf.jpg

 

Frankly it was woeful. Terrible blowouts, bad starts, weird sparks and the like. It's all attached properly, in the right spot and not going anywhere but I wasn't happy. I also wasn't pulling it off again. 😟

 

So I thought, "maybe it's just welding with the weld dripping? Surely it'll be better in the boot."

 

ucr3htl.jpg

 

WRONG! 😢

 

Not one weld I was happy with, again. The back seam and the tab in the wheel arch were only a little better. On reflection, the only thing I can come up with is this. 

 

Weld through primer sucks.

 

When I was welding on raw metal this morning, everything looked good once I got the wire and heat settings correct. The primer, instead of helping, just acted like an impurity. So I've learned my lesson I guess. The good news is, all these seams will be covered with sealer and paint. No one will ever see then, but even still, I'm sad I couldn't get it right. 

 

 

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Weld through primer does affect the weld.  If you didn't adjust your settings from bare metal at all, that could do it.  Visually i would have guessed you were welding too cold possibly a little slow on wire speed too.

 

Also if there is weld through primer under the ground clamp that could also be part of your bad starts and wierd sparks.  Make sure the ground clamp is on clean bare metal regardless.

 

Still, you got it done and learned something.  That is what most of us are doing.  Just keep going.  It will improve.

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27 minutes ago, Lockleaf said:

Weld through primer does affect the weld.  If you didn't adjust your settings from bare metal at all, that could do it.  Visually i would have guessed you were welding too cold possibly a little slow on wire speed too.

 

Also if there is weld through primer under the ground clamp that could also be part of your bad starts and wierd sparks.  Make sure the ground clamp is on clean bare metal regardless.

 

Still, you got it done and learned something.  That is what most of us are doing.  Just keep going.  It will improve.


some of us make the same mistake a few times before we learn something. 😂 

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Thanks for the encouragement. It's not completely terrible,  it's just not what I wanted. I think I'll be doing some practice on an old bonnet I have before putting the quarter panel on.

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As already mentioned, definitely looks like more heat is needed. Good first go though, far better than my first attempt lol. practicing on some scrap is always a good thing, lets you mess around with wildly different settings and weld types to see what works for what.

 

Just a guess, but given your first weld that you said went OK was a butt weld and the other two were overlapping, did you change the heat any? If it was hypothetically already a bit on the low side for the first, the extra metal at play in the 2nd and 3rd welds could definitely absorb heat to the point of causing issues if settings were not changed. Bump up the heat and give it a go, and possibly lower the wire speed a tad and see what happens 🙂 .

 

Personally I have had zero issues clamping to something coated in weld-thru, but I suppose it comes down to the brand of primer, your welder, etc etc.

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On 6/22/2020 at 9:29 AM, Noll said:

As already mentioned, definitely looks like more heat is needed. Good first go though, far better than my first attempt lol. practicing on some scrap is always a good thing, lets you mess around with wildly different settings and weld types to see what works for what.

 

Just a guess, but given your first weld that you said went OK was a butt weld and the other two were overlapping, did you change the heat any? If it was hypothetically already a bit on the low side for the first, the extra metal at play in the 2nd and 3rd welds could definitely absorb heat to the point of causing issues if settings were not changed. Bump up the heat and give it a go, and possibly lower the wire speed a tad and see what happens 🙂 .

 

Personally I have had zero issues clamping to something coated in weld-thru, but I suppose it comes down to the brand of primer, your welder, etc etc.

 

So, the issues I had were two fold...

1. Welding through the hole was ok-ish, but not great.

2. As soon as the weld touched the "hole" edge on the outer panel, it blew through the panel. 

So there was enough heat for one panel, but way too much for the edge. 

 

I tried grinding back the primer with a wire brush and retouching the scrappy welds and my experience was nearly the same. I'm pretty sure more heat would have caused bigger blow throughs. So yeah, not quite sure what to do. Short bursts of weld garnered the same results as longer welds. 😞 

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6 minutes ago, slowlearner said:

 

So, the issues I had were two fold...

1. Welding through the hole was ok-ish, but not great.

2. As soon as the weld touched the "hole" edge on the outer panel, it blew through the panel. 

So there was enough heat for one panel, but way too much for the edge. 

 

I tried grinding back the primer with a wire brush and retouching the scrappy welds and my experience was nearly the same. I'm pretty sure more heat would have caused bigger blow throughs. So yeah, not quite sure what to do. Short bursts of weld garnered the same results as longer welds. 😞 

 

Hmmm...

 

I want to say ground related, it's a bit of an odd issue. a vid would be the easiest way to see, but that's obviously hard to do with welding. Do you mean you intentionally walked the wire to the edge of the weld, or that once the puddle pushed out to that point it blew through the top layer? If the panels are tight together I can't see any reason that would happen.

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What wire and gas are you using?

Edited by thisismatt

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On 6/23/2020 at 12:24 PM, Noll said:

 

Hmmm...

 

I want to say ground related, it's a bit of an odd issue. a vid would be the easiest way to see, but that's obviously hard to do with welding. Do you mean you intentionally walked the wire to the edge of the weld, or that once the puddle pushed out to that point it blew through the top layer? If the panels are tight together I can't see any reason that would happen.

 

That's exactly what happened. Yes, they were hard against each other.

 

The gas is meant to be MIG mix. Argon and CO2. Worked ok that morning and since on bare metal.

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12 hours ago, thisismatt said:

What size wire? .024"?

 

0.6mm, but yeah. Same thing.

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Had some major work issues occupying my mind recently and sleep hasn't been plentiful, but on Saturday and today, I managed to do some welding practice on an old bonnet I have.

 

G3X96xQ.jpg

 

The weld's you can see are the second go I've had at welding on this metal. On the first go, I had a try at the "overlapping patch" technique. It didn't work because the steel is so thin and the cutting disk is a little too thick. I'm going to look into some thinner cutting disks, but even then, I don't think it will work.

 

a44xduq.jpg

 

I've hit on these as effective settings for the metal I'm using.

 

vIyCNo3.jpg

 

Basically, after watching a vid on youtube (which wasn't particularly instructional), I got a few things straight. First up, get the gun at 45 deg. Secondly, have a 1/4" gap between the sleave and the tip. Third and most important, I gave myself permission to use less heat. That helped straight up. Then adding a little more feed had it cooking bacon (the right sound) almost straight away.

 

I'm still warping the panel though, so I want to do some more practice on that. Basically I'm not touching the car until I can get it consistently right on the bonnet first. My friend who gave me the bonnet has LOTS of old doors so I could practice on them too. I have a week of holidays coming up. I want to be ready by then. I may even buy a new welding helmet. Not sure my is really helping.

 

 

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Glad to hear that you're getting it dialed in! I was thinking while working on my car today that too much heat + too much wire speed could be part of the cause of your earlier issues, but you've beat me to it on a solution before I got to comment that haha.

 

Good starting point for gap and angle, angle isn't TOO crucial, and you can play around with it to do different things which is nice. Push weld puddle across a large gap, direct more heat at the thicker of two panels to prevent blow-through, etc.

 

Welds look good! What does the back side look like?

 

 

For cutoff wheels I use 0.045" 4.5" cutoff wheels like these: https://www.amazon.ca/disques-ultra-Focus-metal-inoxydable/dp/B01N37VNIU/

I haven't tried that technique yet (the 45deg cut, right?), but they would work fine for it and in general they're nice for keeping cut widths narrow.

Edited by Noll

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