Retro Wave Posted May 6, 2019 Report Share Posted May 6, 2019 hello, At the moment we are doing a small updating on the 1976 Datsun B210, cleaning the engine bay and updating the brake system (still working on). I read somewhere that you can upgrade your alternator and remove your external voltage regulator by buying it built into the Alternator. Now what would be the steps to do this upgrade. Im guessing you would have to buy an alternator (with the internal regulator) from a 1978 and up datsun 210 and just replace. Any difference in wiring? can I eliminate the voltage regulator wiring /VR if i have the correct alternator? any belt difference? I would like to clean up the wiring and thats why Im interested in doing this upgrade & re-routing a few wires around. thinking of getting an Acdelco 3341578 (#19134571) thru rockauto OR one of those autozone duralast Alternators from a 1980 Datsun 210 (reason being its easy to return to store for warranty). I think that will do the trick - what do you think? Also there is another electrical box next to the Voltage regulator on my car. I was wondering what is it and can it be removed? They are both encase in a metal box behind the battery. Im guessing that is the Electric Ignition, like it said on the wiring diagram on https://datsunforum.com/Datsun_Wiring_Diagrams/Datsun 210 and B210/Datsun_B210_Wiring_Diagram_1976.pdf & it can't be removed Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 6, 2019 Report Share Posted May 6, 2019 If runs well leave it alone. Everything is there for a reason. Can't see the color of the wires, what are they? I suspect this is the auto choke heater relay. If replacing with an internally regulated B210 or later 210 what's the point? might as well get an upgrade in output. The good thing is you have lots of clearance for a larger alternator. If you do get an internally regulated one... .. remove the regulator and cut the the wires as long as possible on the plug. Join and solder (you MUST solder or use quality crimp on connectors) the solid White and Yellow wires together, then the White/Red stripe and the White/Black stripe together. Two pair. Use heat shrink tubing or wrap securely with electrical tape. Remove the other wires and pins that are not used. Now plug this into the engine harness and you're good. The auto choke heater must be disconnected because now it will be on with the ignition off and over 2-3 days will drain the battery. With the auto choke heater relay to power the choke heater a new supply must be found. Find the Blue choke heater wire on the carburetor and join it to the Red idle cut solenoid, also on the carburetor. The idle cut is only on with the ignition and this will do just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2019 I agree with you 100% datzenmike but this car has been a mess since we got her about 5 years ago and still we are finding problems and missing/disconnected items. here is the back side of that smaller electric box. i dont know what it is but if its for the stock carburetor then i definitely don't need it because i have a Weber 32/36 BUT as of now i have it connected and in the engine bay in case its needed (and that I don't forget where it goes). That metal box with the V.R. i took out. Im still guessing that the two pairs of wires that you said to cut and join together has to be done to form a connection between the two to go back to the engine harness. ok seem simple, As for the alternator : what would you suggest? I heard something along the lines of a Saturn alternator but I think those are the same ampages of 60amp like the one i have now I have an automatic transmission on my datsun and i think its a California emissions Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 6, 2019 Report Share Posted May 6, 2019 Yes to the wire connections. I thought the Saturn alternator was 90 amp. Look for the car number stamped into the vertical face of the cowl just behind and above the rear of the valve cover. Might look like this on a sedan.. HL B-210 SARV XXXXX R means 2 door A means automatic V means California emissions Quote Link to comment
az_rat210 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 I put in a 90 amp alternator from the 89-91 Nissan Maxima. I had to have an alternator shop put a V-Belt pulley on it, and they gave me a plug for the maxima alternator, then I had to cut part of the alterator mount area on the motor to fit I it I think. Works a treat though and is Internally Regulated. But if your car is electronic ignition you should already have an IR alternator, in which case just take the factory alternator to an alternator shop and have them rewire it for 90 amps at idle. 1 Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I was wrong on the Saturn Alternator being 60 amps, I must have misread something too quickly. I'll keep that 88-91 Maxima in mind. Im guessing you used the V-belt pulley from your stock Alternator? I didn't had an Electronic Ignition, It was a Point type distributor with lots of hoses/wires/emissions/vacuums. Car was in bad shape and had lots of gremlins but we are solving them as we go. I did converted it to electric distributor Does anyone have experience with those Mini Chevy race alternators on a datsun? some come 45amp while others are 75amps As for now I went with a stock 60amp 1980 Datsun 210 Alternator thru rockauto.com, just to see some progress. I did a comparison between the two and they look alike, just one plug is missing from the new one that the old one has. Here are two pictures (i should have taken pictures with the plastic off - sorry). I'll mark it on the next picture posting I did check the cowl / firewall area next to the rear of valve cover and I don't have Letters just my vin number: HLB210- ###### Am I suppose to jump the red and blue wires together as well? just like the other two wires pictured?. Right now im using the red wire as a lead to open my choke on the 32/36 weber, That should be ok right? Also do I need that condenser from my old alternator? Do I need a Black ground wire connected to the alternator's body going to battery negative? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 The alternator does ground through the case to the engine block but there is a Black ground wire and it doesn't hurt to have it on. The power output is an insulated terminal with that condenser attached. The condenser is for noise suppression. Radio and stereo amp will have a high piched whine that rises and falls with engine revs, very annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2019 ok so I was doing a little wiring a few days ago and i think im just about done with it. everything has been connected and re-routed. Its 100 times better than before in my opinion. hopefully i got this right I have the black wire connected to the battery negative and onto where the battery sits - as seen in picture it is then connected to a series of other black wire. Coil is connected - three reds (tach, dizzy and red wire connect to a pair of two other wire) and two blacks (dizzy and the black wire connect to the multiple wires as seen in above picture) i fotgot to take photos of alternator wires connected but i will get them up soon Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2019 the only wire i don't know where it connects to is this one. its a black wire with a white line in between. I think it was connected together with the black wire on the coils negative but Im not sure Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted May 25, 2019 Report Share Posted May 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Retro Wave said: the only wire i don't know where it connects to is this one. its a black wire with a white line in between. I think it was connected together with the black wire on the coils negative but Im not sure Check it for power..... I believe that's 12 volt ignition power.... Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 5/25/2019 at 11:56 AM, Crashtd420 said: Check it for power..... I believe that's 12 volt ignition power.... Ok so I tried starting the car today to see the progress that I did and it failed to start. I have tested that black/white line wire for power in both key positions- ON and RUN positions. it had no power. It use to be connected as a split wire to the negative wire of the coil. I did reconnected it but as its own separate wire going to the negative post of the coil but still no start. I tried connecting it to the positive side but still no start. I did check for spark, my father disconnected the #1 spark plug wire and inserted a screw driver and got it close to a ground source. I cracked it and it was no spark, so we plugged the #1 back and disconnected the coil wire from the distributor cap and did the same steps as the #1 spark plug.... still no spark. timing is set at 8 degree BTDC at the #1 spark plug As of now Im looking around for loose connections and wires that I mis-connected but I don't see that many wires. I know some were spliced together in 1 solid wire. Maybe the "black/white wire" needs to be spliced together instead of being separated? now its a no spark condition Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 5/25/2019 at 1:34 AM, Retro Wave said: Coil is connected - three reds (tach, dizzy and red wire connect to a pair of two other wire) and two blacks (dizzy and the black wire connect to the multiple wires as seen in above picture) The first thing I would do is disconnect those extra black wires to coil.... Coil should have ignition power to the positive and the negative trigger from the distributor to the negative side of the coil.... What are the red wires going to the coil and distributor? What do they connect to? Also is it a factory or after market tach? Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 The negative side of coil has 2 wires. one of them is from the distributor and the other is a larger gauge wire connected to other smaller gauge wires - 4 of them. where my hand holding the heavy gauge wire Its being ground to the battery terminal and the battery shelf - (where the battery sits) As for the red cables - one of them is for the aftermarket tach, the 2nd wire is for the distributor and the third is shared with a Black/red line wire and a Black/white line wire. The other black/white line wire shown by itself is skinnier than the one attached to the black/red. i have no idea where that goes or what its for? Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) I did disconnected a few boxes and this one is one of them. Im not sure what this one does as well. I don't think this would be the cause of my problem because I reconnected him and it did nothing Edited May 27, 2019 by Retro Wave Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 i did a small test with the ohms meter and it looks OK numbers wise. I am not an expert in this type of thing. Don't worry about the black wire on the positive post of the coil, its not there anymore, only the three reds which I mentioned early Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 I been breaking my head with this diagram. couldn't they make it just one version in stead of mashing them up together; Federal and California wiring. https://datsunforum.com/Datsun_Wiring_Diagrams/Datsun 210 and B210/Datsun_B210_Wiring_Diagram_1976.pdf Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, Retro Wave said: The negative side of coil has 2 wires. one of them is from the distributor and the other is a larger gauge wire connected to other smaller gauge wires - 4 of them. where my hand holding the heavy gauge wire Its being ground to the battery terminal and the battery shelf - (where the battery sits) As for the red cables - one of them is for the aftermarket tach, the 2nd wire is for the distributor and the third is shared with a Black/red line wire and a Black/white line wire. The other black/white line wire shown by itself is skinnier than the one attached to the black/red. i have no idea where that goes or what its for? Well black and red is the start signal from the key..... usually the start signal would bypass a points coil ballist resistor to give more power during crank.... But there is the correct black and white for ignition connected to the the reds... so that's good..... not sure about that other wire..... Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 And disconnect the other black wire going to the negative side on the coil.... if the second one is going to chassis ground that could be what's stopping the spark..... connect only the distributor to the negative side of the coil and see if you get spark..... Quote Link to comment
Retro Wave Posted May 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2019 On 5/27/2019 at 5:03 PM, Crashtd420 said: And disconnect the other black wire going to the negative side on the coil.... if the second one is going to chassis ground that could be what's stopping the spark..... connect only the distributor to the negative side of the coil and see if you get spark..... sorry for late reply but I did what you said the same time you replied and it fire right up! You were right, I guess i was grounding out the spark with the battery's negative & chassis ground together (who knew). Now i gotta figure out where those black wires go and if they need to be connected in a specific way? All i can say is: You sir Crashtd420 are the man! u saved me from pulling the coil out and getting a new one 1 Quote Link to comment
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