Wanting to lower my b210. Running 13” wheels

[JayDilla]

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ideally would like to have it sitting like this. Obviously not going for any sort of performance at that point.. however what would be the best way to achieve this. I’ve seen there’s ways to cut the strut perch and shorten it. Cutting springs if done the right way can work, and I’ve also been looking into lower control coil overs just not sure how they will work on the datto. Looks as though you can weld them to stock struts or thread them onto upgraded KYB or koni aswell. Have also been interested in the 280zx struts however they don’t allow many 13” wheels to fit. Not to mention at this height I wouldn’t need the bigger brakes since I will not be going very fast aha

[datzenmike]

Cheapest easy way to lower the rear is to add 2" or 3" drop blocks. You probably will need to replace the U bolts with longer ones. All that's needed is wrench work. While o, I would advise having an extra leaf added to stiffen and match the front. The reason for stiffer on both is two fold. The stock springs are generally soft in the first place, to give an agreeable ride to the average buyer. Second you are now lower and closer to the pavement so reducing the body travel on bumps and dips is a good idea. Firmer and lower will improve the feel and handling. Don't go over board on stiffness. Better a slightly too soft and want firmer ride than too firm and want softer.  

 

The front you can remove the strut and dismantle the spring from it. Trim the lower perch and let it down onto a split collar that clamps to the strut tube, and is adjustable for height. I wouldn't go much over 2- 2 1/2" depending how stiff your coil spring is going to be. At this point the spring should be stiffened by trimming it. (more on that later if needed) While apart, if the struts have the original oil bath dampers you can increase or renew the firmness by replacing the oil with thicker motorcycle fork oil rather than replacing with hundreds of dollars worth of strut inserts not even made for this car. The adjustable lowering and shock renewal cost is under $50 for the split collars and the fork oil. I just don't see the sense in spending between $500? and $1,000 on inserts and adjustable coil overs that you adjust a few times to set your ride height.... and never touch again. 

 

Any time the front end is raised or lowered it has some small to large effect on the toe in, camber and adds bump steer. Toe in and bump steer can be offset by adding spacers (shims) between the steering knuckle and the bottom of the strut tube to move the outer ends of the lower control arms lower and make them more level. Camber can be adjusted at the top of the strut tower mount by purchasing camber plates. Almost for sure when you get everything done and where you like it you really should have an alignment done.  Again it's possible to set toe yourself in you driveway taking only time and costing for 100 feet of string.

[datzenmike]

Usually the 280zx calipers can be ground away for clearance on 13" rims. Something to look into.

[JayDilla]

53 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Cheapest easy way to lower the rear is to add 2" or 3" drop blocks. You probably will need to replace the U bolts with longer ones. All that's needed is wrench work. While o, I would advise having an extra leaf added to stiffen and match the front. The reason for stiffer on both is two fold. The stock springs are generally soft in the first place, to give an agreeable ride to the average buyer. Second you are now lower and closer to the pavement so reducing the body travel on bumps and dips is a good idea. Firmer and lower will improve the feel and handling. Don't go over board on stiffness. Better a slightly too soft and want firmer ride than too firm and want softer.  

 

The front you can remove the strut and dismantle the spring from it. Trim the lower perch and let it down onto a split collar that clamps to the strut tube, and is adjustable for height. I wouldn't go much over 2- 2 1/2" depending how stiff your coil spring is going to be. At this point the spring should be stiffened by trimming it. (more on that later if needed) While apart, if the struts have the original oil bath dampers you can increase or renew the firmness by replacing the oil with thicker motorcycle fork oil rather than replacing with hundreds of dollars worth of strut inserts not even made for this car. The adjustable lowering and shock renewal cost is under $50 for the split collars and the fork oil. I just don't see the sense in spending between $500? and $1,000 on inserts and adjustable coil overs that you adjust a few times to set your ride height.... and never touch again. 

 

Any time the front end is raised or lowered it has some small to large effect on the toe in, camber and adds bump steer. Toe in and bump steer can be offset by adding spacers (shims) between the steering knuckle and the bottom of the strut tube to move the outer ends of the lower control arms lower and make them more level. Camber can be adjusted at the top of the strut tower mount by purchasing camber plates. Almost for sure when you get everything done and where you like it you really should have an alignment done.  Again it's possible to set toe yourself in you driveway taking only time and costing for 100 feet of string.

Cool appreciate that. As far as split collars go is there a specific style I should be getting? Something that will secure the spring into place better? Or to you weld the collar onto the slit collar to seat the spring properly? Pictures of this would be awesome both before and after if possible. I agree that once I’ve got my desired ride height I can’t see myself needed to adjust it again. And yes blocks seem to be the best bet as far as lowering the rear. How about straightening the leafs ? Have read a bit about that aswell and it seems to also thrower the rear a bit and give stiffness

[JayDilla]

7 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Usually the 280zx calipers can be ground away for clearance on 13" rims. Something to look into.

Yeah was going to look into that aswell before turning it away. Especially since the backs of the MK2’s are pretty good as far as clearance goes.  The 280zx struts would allow a lot better lowering capabilities correct?

[datzenmike]

 

I used this style with two fasteners. I think there are single split with single fastener but these would need to be threaded on the strut tube from the top, where as mine could be put on with the assemble in the car. They are EACH rated a 6,000 pounds when tightened. That's about 2 1/2 cars weight per side.

 

Once welded they are not adjustable. But when I got mine on my 710 where I wanted them I buzzed a small easy to get at weld on the strut tube just below each so there was no way it could slip down.

 

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[datzenmike]

2 minutes ago, JayDilla said:

Yeah was going to look into that aswell before turning it away. Especially since the backs of the MK2’s are pretty good as far as clearance goes.  The 280zx struts would allow a lot better lowering capabilities correct?

 

The ZX are already shorter so more adjustment room without fear of bottoming out. Bottoming out the internal shock must be avoided. Even more, the ZX struts come with massive calipers and vented rotors.

[JayDilla]

13 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

 

I used this style with two fasteners. I think there are single split with single fastener but these would need to be threaded on the strut tube from the top, where as mine could be put on with the assemble in the car. They are EACH rated a 6,000 pounds when tightened. That's about 2 1/2 cars weight per side.

 

Once welded they are not adjustable. But when I got mine on my 710 where I wanted them I buzzed a small easy to get at weld on the strut tube just below each so there was no way it could slip down.

 

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Ok cool, and the bottom of the spring rests right on top of the split collar then? Or do you just cut the spring seat loose from the strut so it’s free along the strut then add the split collar below that to have adjustment? Sorry I’m not very familiar with suspension and still researching. It does sound like the 280zx struts are the way to go though if I can make them fit with a bit of grinding down the calibers

[JayDilla]

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ahhh ok so just like in these pictures. And I think I had the right idea as the perch seating the spring will be free floating and allow you to slip the split collar underneath it allowing you to lower the front. Right idea? If so this seems very simple and a lot safer then just cutting your spring aha

[datzenmike]

The spring perch, or seat, it carefully trimmed of it's weld on the strut tube and it rests on the support of the split collar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick around just above the weld. Hacksaw is also good.

 

 

 

Hammer up and off the strut tube.

 

 

 

Grind away the old weld so the seat, or perch, is free to slide up or down past it

 

 

 

I set the perch snug, just for ease of installing.

 

 

 

Then used a hydraulic jack and chunk of wood to compress the spring up and support the car's weight, and then loosen the split collar and reposition it. Measures and set the other side the same and checked the ride height. Probably did this 2-3 more times to fine tune it.

[JayDilla]

29 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

The spring perch, or seat, it carefully trimmed of it's weld on the strut tube and it rests on the support of the split collar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick around just above the weld. Hacksaw is also good.

 

 

 

Hammer up and off the strut tube.

 

 

 

Grind away the old weld so the seat, or perch, is free to slide up or down past it

 

 

 

I set the perch snug, just for ease of installing.

 

 

 

Then used a hydraulic jack and chunk of wood to compress the spring up and support the car's weight, and then loosen the split collar and reposition it. Measures and set the other side the same and checked the ride height. Probably did this 2-3 more times to fine tune it.

Awesome ? very helpful! Pictures helped a lot aswell! I will be doing this once my lugs arrive and the wheels are mounted. Seems easy enough. Seems like it wouldn’t hurt to leave the old weld there just as a safety measure either? Since my clamp will most likely be up above that area anyways. Also I should cut my springs a bit aswell to stiffen they and avoid bottoming out or will replacing the struts with the motorcycle fork fluid do the trick? 

 

Oh and as as far as adjustable camber plates go, will stock struts work with these? If so what’s a good brand to purchase? 

[JayDilla]

Also for the split collar do you happen to know the inside diameter in order to fit around the strut? 

[datzenmike]

To some extent they will, but the real limiting factor, is the stock coil hitting the in side of the strut tower. I was able to get away with it but I didn't run insane lowering either. The lower you go the more camber that's induced. You will be using your stock top hat and coil spring. A coil over might use a smaller diameter spring and top hat giving you more adjustment? 

 

There is a formula for working out your spring rate on a coil my making a few careful measurements and multiplying and dividing. Let me know when you are ready and I can do the math for you. With knowing what your spring rate now you can work out how much to cut to raise it. (remember, "Better a slightly too soft and want firmer ride than too firm and want softer" once cut, it can't be put back on) I would guess the B-210 is around 90 to 100 pounds per inch. My 710 was 100 lb./in. so I worked out how much to remove to increase it 50% to 150 lb./in. I liked it right there and it's good a firm but everyone is different. You might find 175 or 200 is what you like. Just be cautious.... or buy another set of coils for spare.

 

 

2 minutes ago, JayDilla said:

Also for the split collar do you happen to know the inside diameter in order to fit around the strut? 

 

All struts are (zx included) 2"

[JayDilla]

Alright, I’ll let you know once I decide to go for it. Considering it’s a cheap lowering method I should be able to get to it quick? Just gotta wait for the lugs and then decide how much I want the front to come down. I’ll most likely go for cutting the perch for the mean time and will also look into fitting 280zx struts eventually. Thanks again 

[datzenmike]

If careful you can remove the spring without renting any clamping devices. I loosened (don't remove) the gland nut at the top and place the top hat against something that wouldn't move, but leave room to continuing to loosen and remove the nut. Place a heavy folded blanket over the rest of the strut and remove the nut. When the nut come off expect the compressed coil to very suddenly expand and shove the rest of the strut away from you. I would leave the caliper and rotor on to add weight. The ones I did jumped maybe a foot and a half. No.... it's not going to jump through a wall or over into the neighbor's yard. The blanket will dampen it, but the end you are loosening must be securely against something so the spring doesn't jump towards you.

[JayDilla]

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would something along the the lines of these adjustable coil over sleeves work aswell on the stock struts? Just trying to get an idea of all my options 

[datzenmike]

Probably, but remember you can't lower endlessly without bottoming out the damper inside. A couple of inches is fine or get a zx strut that is already slightly shorter. Narrower diameter oil/op hat will give you more room inside the strut tower for camber adjusting. Additionally you should be able to order the springs in the spring rate you want to try. Good coil overs are not cheap and cheap ones are... well they are cheap. 

 

That's $21 per wheel and more than qualifies as cheap, made in China and no listing of spring rate.

 

Lets just say that if the coil and it's top hat is narrower than yours and say 150 lb. / in. rate.... for that price throw the rest away and use them instead of the stock spring and top hat.

[JayDilla]

38 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Probably, but remember you can't lower endlessly without bottoming out the damper inside. A couple of inches is fine or get a zx strut that is already slightly shorter. Narrower diameter oil/op hat will give you more room inside the strut tower for camber adjusting. Additionally you should be able to order the springs in the spring rate you want to try. Good coil overs are not cheap and cheap ones are... well they are cheap. 

 

That's $21 per wheel and more than qualifies as cheap, made in China and no listing of spring rate.

 

Lets just say that if the coil and it's top hat is narrower than yours and say 150 lb. / in. rate.... for that price throw the rest away and use them instead of the stock spring and top hat.

Yes good know. And yes these are very cheap coil overs aha but may be a short term option aswell. Like I said 280zx struts are what I’m hoping to swap in. As far as those go is it pretty much a bolt in set up? 

[datzenmike]

Could be, but those fit ...

 

• 88-91 Honda CRX
• 90-01 Acura Integra
• 88-00 Honda Civic
• 93-97 Honda Del Sol
• Fits Shocks up to 50mm OD Diameter

 

[datb210sun]

On 3/1/2019 at 3:56 PM, datzenmike said:

Could be, but those fit ...

 

• 88-91 Honda CRX
• 90-01 Acura Integra
• 88-00 Honda Civic
• 93-97 Honda Del Sol
• Fits Shocks up to 50mm OD Diameter

 

 

 

i bought a set off ebay from one of these applications to use with my 280zx struts (https://www.ebay.com/itm/152634121733?ul_noapp=true). but will not be using the springs ( will be ordering the eibach. just the sleeves and perches.  These are the springs I was looking into from Jegs (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/64958/10002/-1) same spring rate as the eibach I was thinking about getting. 

[datb210sun]

A pic from a member on here who sent me his 280zx build with the eibach springs. hopefully, he doesn't mind me sharing it with you..

Edited March 6, 2019 by datb210sun

[datzenmike]

Looks about right

[datb210sun]

Does it matter if i get the springs rated between 300-400lbs instead of 200lbs?

[datzenmike]

It's you who has to live with the ride.  Ask yourself "Is this a race car?"

 

Yes? then put in whatever the hell you want because you're getting paid to drive it at maximum effort and after a couple of hundred miles it's over and you can drive home in a comfortable car and go lay down.

 

No? then build it with a comfortable firm suspension that is fun to drive all day long. Work your way up to the point that the car become no fun to drive then drop down 50 lb/in on the springs. If you are under 30 start with 200 and go up or down from there. There's no right answer for spring rate, it's what feels right for you. The ride can be startling so drive it for a while and get used to it but be critical. Is it comfortable when it needs to be or is it bone jarring? Don't settle for less (or too much) than you want. 

 

 

I'm running 150 in the front but I'm old and far beyond doing shit just because everyone else does it. 175 or 200 might also work but better to want more, than to have too much and wish you had less.  300-400lb/in you may think the wheels are welded to the body and there are no springs in it at all.

 

You will need to add some stiffness to the rears to match the fronts. Maybe add a leaf to your spring packs.  

[Motorvated]

Great thread! thanks for all the knowledge @datzenmike

 

How did you go @JayDilla? any progress? any photos?

 

I'd be keen to try the split collar method though my car isn't registered and I fear that method may not be suitable for road worthy certificate. I'm based in Australia and it can be pretty tough to get things approved here.

 

Thanks 

Dom

www.mtrvtd.com