fuel fuel fuel

[clcla4]

I was driving to work and my 81 datsun a15 sputter and farted a little,  I just gave it some gas and it responded like it should by accelerating so I didnt think nothing of it.  Drove the  2 miles the rest of the way to work and was fine.  when i got of I couldnt get it started.  I figured it was the fuel pump or filter,  I changed both of them out at my job and it still wouldnt start.  Towed it to my buddies shop, after a couple of days he looked at it and blew the lines out and we got it to fire up after covering the carb with a carb cleaner cap to give it some suction .  I just assumed it had some junk in the carb, he blew the line out and said it sounded like the compressed air had pushed something out.  a week later it did the same thing making me think it was probably a clogged tank,  luckily I was at my house and I got it up in the garage and tore it apart.  I dropped the tank and suprisingly it was nice and clean. I replaced all the hoses  in the rear of the vehicle including the ones attached to the filer hole and purge valve.  So everything from the tank forward has new hoses and clamps.  Once in the garage I blew my lines out into a rag where my son was watching for junk and the only line that was clogged was the line coming from my carb canister connected to the fuel line I figured the canister was introducing some junk in that line and went to the junk yard and found me one local believe it or not.  Put everything back together and I cant get it to start,  my question is where should I look next, is there a way to take my canister apart and clean it,   The can looks solid and one piece  I had the carb rebuilt about 2 years ago but I guess it could be full of some stuff too, any suggestion would be helpful.

[datzenmike]

The canister only collects fumes from the tank and carb and stores them. There is a vacuum line from the intake that sucks open a purge valve in the canister and  allows the stored fumes into the intake to be burned. There's no way the canister would prevent it starting.

 

Start with basics. SPARK and GAS

 

Check for spark at a plug end of any wire. Put anything in the end even a lawn mower plug, lay on a grounded surface like the intake and try starting the engine.... got spark???

Look in the carburetor (engine off) and pump the throttle. Does gas squirt in?????

 

 

[clcla4]

I have spark and I just added 2 gallons of gas maybe it wasnt enough car will start when carb cleaner is sprayed into carburetor.  It sounds as if my logic was all wrong to begin with about it not starting,  So that makes me lean toward carb issues then, forgive me but i am learning on the fly and I have talked to you before I always appreciate and value your input

 

[datzenmike]

What carburetor? Almost all have an accelerator pump in them. If the carb has gas in it you should see it squirt when you pump the gas. Does it???

[clcla4]

it is more of a drip then a squirt, I assume it should have more flow than that

 

[datzenmike]

Well it may indicate that your carburetor is empty.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, clcla4 said:

I was driving to work and my 81 datsun a15 sputter and farted a little,  I just gave it some gas and it responded like it should by accelerating so I didnt think nothing of it.  Drove the  2 miles the rest of the way to work and was fine.  when i got of I couldnt get it started.  I figured it was the fuel pump or filter,  I changed both of them out at my job and it still wouldnt start.  Towed it to my buddies shop, after a couple of days he looked at it and blew the lines out and we got it to fire up after covering the carb with a carb cleaner cap to give it some suction .  I just assumed it had some junk in the carb, he blew the line out and said it sounded like the compressed air had pushed something out.  a week later it did the same thing making me think it was probably a clogged tank,  luckily I was at my house and I got it up in the garage and tore it apart.  I dropped the tank and suprisingly it was nice and clean. I replaced all the hoses  in the rear of the vehicle including the ones attached to the filer hole and purge valve.  So everything from the tank forward has new hoses and clamps.  Once in the garage I blew my lines out into a rag where my son was watching for junk and the only line that was clogged was the line coming from my carb canister connected to the fuel line I figured the canister was introducing some junk in that line and went to the junk yard and found me one local believe it or not.  Put everything back together and I cant get it to start,  my question is where should I look next, is there a way to take my canister apart and clean it,   The can looks solid and one piece  I had the carb rebuilt about 2 years ago but I guess it could be full of some stuff too, any suggestion would be helpful.

 

 

Just what car do you have as many by '81 were EFI.

 

I was maybe thrown off by the word carb.

[clcla4]

this is a datsun 210 wagon deluxe with a 1.5 carbed, sorry on my assumption lol.  Could this be an accelerator pump issue.  What are you thoughts

[datzenmike]

Good. There will be a sight glass on the front side of the carburetor showing the fuel level. Check it. If no fuel then there is a fuel delivery problem. 

 

Most likely is a plugged fuel filter located in the engine compartment before the fuel pump.

 

What was the part you got from the wrecking yard again???? What canister???

 

4 hours ago, clcla4 said:

I was driving to work and my 81 datsun a15 sputter and farted a little,  I just gave it some gas and it responded like it should by accelerating so I didnt think nothing of it.  Drove the  2 miles the rest of the way to work and was fine.  when i got of I couldnt get it started.  I figured it was the fuel pump or filter,  I changed both of them out at my job and it still wouldnt start.  Towed it to my buddies shop, after a couple of days he looked at it and blew the lines out and we got it to fire up after covering the carb with a carb cleaner cap to give it some suction .  I just assumed it had some junk in the carb, he blew the line out and said it sounded like the compressed air had pushed something out.  a week later it did the same thing making me think it was probably a clogged tank,  luckily I was at my house and I got it up in the garage and tore it apart.  I dropped the tank and suprisingly it was nice and clean. I replaced all the hoses  in the rear of the vehicle including the ones attached to the filer hole and purge valve.  So everything from the tank forward has new hoses and clamps.  Once in the garage I blew my lines out into a rag where my son was watching for junk and the only line that was clogged was the line coming from my carb canister connected to the fuel line I figured the canister was introducing some junk in that line and went to the junk yard and found me one local believe it or not.  Put everything back together and I cant get it to start,  my question is where should I look next, is there a way to take my canister apart and clean it,   The can looks solid and one piece  I had the carb rebuilt about 2 years ago but I guess it could be full of some stuff too, any suggestion would be helpful.

 

[clcla4]

It was a charcoal canister, at this point I dont think it is relevant at all.  I just thought it odd that that line coming from the canister back was clogged up.  I will check the window in the am I appreciate all the insight my friend

 

[clcla4]

From what I can tell there is no fuel in the glass I just replaced the fuel filter at the same time as I put the new pump on a month ago.

[datzenmike]

What's confusing is you say it's connected to the fuel line. It shouldn't be. The charcoal canister stores gas fumes, that's all it does.

 

This is a mechanical pump on the side of the head? Or electric?

 

Pull the output hose off the pump and direct it into a suitable container. Pull the coil wire off so it won't start and have someone turn the engine with the starter. Got Gas??

 

1/ YES it spurts out strongly. Go to 5/

2/ NO nothing

 

Get a container of gas and run a hose from it to the input side of the pump. Turn engine over briefly with the starter. Got gas??

 

3/ YES it spurts out strongly now. Gas is not getting to the pump. Filter, lines or tank is plugged.

4/ NO nothing. Fuel pump is not working.

 

5/ reconnect fuel line to the pump. Pull line off the carburetor and direct into a suitable container. Turn engine over with starter. Got gas??

 

6/ YES it spurts out strongly. Inlet needle valve in float chamber is stuck closed or brass screen inside banjo fitting is plugged or float is stuck in the up position not letting gas in.

7/ NO nothing. Fuel line between carburetor and fuel pump plugged or kinked.

 

 

ELECTRIC PUMP

 

Turn key on and listen to the pump. Is it working?

Check the fuse. Check the connections are tight. Make sure your ground is good.

 

 

 

[clcla4]

This is a mechanical pump, the charcoal canister is connected to a hose that runs to the fuel tank.  Sorry for the confusion   I will try the steps you suggested thanks and I will let you know after work.

[datzenmike]

No, that's perfect. It's the tank vent. There may be one to the carburetor to capture fumes also and the purge vacuum line from the intake.

[clcla4]

Pull the output hose off the pump and direct it into a suitable container. Pull the coil wire off so it won't start and have someone turn the engine with the starter. Got Gas??

         NO nothing happened

 

 

Get a container of gas and run a hose from it to the input side of the pump. Turn engine over briefly with the starter. Got gas??

         Vehicle will run when in a container of gas til it is gone, So the pump is doings its job, correct?

 

 Pull line off the carburetor and direct into a suitable container. Turn engine over with starter. Got gas??

         No gas anywhere

 

I have blew out every line on the vehicle and double checked my lines and hoses literally 3 times everything is connected properly according to my manual. At this point I am at a loss as what to do, obviously I am missing something.  I have no gas in the filter, I put a brand new one on today my only conclusion is something has to be clogging the tank disallowing free flow of gas.   I dropped the tank and it was in terrific shape with no issues.  I am missing something somewhere.  What do you suggest my friend

 

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, clcla4 said:

 

 

Get a container of gas and run a hose from it to the input side of the pump. Turn engine over briefly with the starter. Got gas??

         Vehicle will run when in a container of gas til it is gone, So the pump is doings its job, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

If the above is true then gas is not getting to the pump but pump IS doing it's job.

 

Take the gas cap off and blow into the hose to the fuel filter coming from the tank. What you should hear is air bubbling in the tank. If you don't, find the tank vent hose. It should go to the black plastic charcoal canister, usually mounted on the driver's inner fender. Blow into it and if you hear bubbles, the hoses at the tank are swapped.

 

 

I agree it'll be something simple.

[clcla4]

I sprayed air into the hose coming from the the tank going into the fuel filter, it gurgles and makes noise,   I also blew air into the vent hose coming from the charcoal canister and it makes a light hissing sound but not really gurgling sound,  So I assume I have it connected correctly.   What do you think at this point

 

[datzenmike]

Well I have often seen where it takes a long time for the mechanical pump to suck fuel all the way from the tank. Try the can of gas again to get it running and the carburetor full of gas. Shut off and connect the lines again. With the carburetor full of gas it will easily start and run for more than enough time to pull new gas through the lines and keep going.

 

Make sure ALL hose clamps are tight on the pump and the fuel filter or air will get in and the fuel will run down hill back into the tank.

 

Give this a try.

 

[clcla4]

I tried your suggestion  I put the hose in the jar started it let it run then killed it, connected all the hoses and restarted with the lines hooked up normal, it ran for about 30 seconds then died.   I tried to restart it and it ran for about 3 seconds then i sprayed starter fluid and it ran until it burned off.  I tried the same trick you suggested with the jar and priming it basically, it would not start without starter fluid,  I dont know what else to do.  I think I will replace the pump again and see if that helps.  What are your thoughts

[datzenmike]

Hang on, you said it ran from a container of gas feeding the pump so the pump must be working.

 

This is somewhat dangerous so you're on your own here.... Suck on the hose from the filter. Can you draw fuel through the lines?

 

If yes, then the pump has a problem.

[clcla4]

it ran initially but will not run now from the container of fuel, maybe the pump isnt strong enough but at this point I cant see how it hurts to replace the pump as i know I have all the plumbing hooked up right, the only thing left to replace is the pump, I rebuilt the carb 2 years ago and have had know problems I am stumped

[datzenmike]

If it works sporadically from the container.... better assume the pump is faulty.

[clcla4]

ok thank you for the asisst, from what I can tel you are the person to ask for help and you have been spot on in everything you had said so far lol.  It will take the pump several days to get here,  I will let you know how it turns out.  Thanks

[clcla4]

ok finally got the vehicle to run, long story short I had some hoses crossed up somehow some way.  I do appreicate all the help you provided datzenmike.  You were right on the money all i have to do now is figure out why when I give it gas it seems to hesitate as if I have a vacuum leak it wants to almost die out on me but it is running after a month my wife is excited because she can have her van back lol.  thanks for all the help my friend

[datzenmike]

Engine off, look down the primary barrel and pump he throttle several times. What you should see is a strong squirt of fuel. If only a dribble or none the accelerator pump is worn out or simply not working.

[clcla4]

I will have to check that one out, I had that thought that the accelerator pump may of been an issue and dismissed it earlier on , I will definitely check it out..