[SOLVED] D21 Z24I to KA24e conversion, and other rambling

[datzenmike]

Yes, that... has no sense at all.

[lovot]

wait, if the crank angle sensor is part of the new style distributor, wouldn't that mean I would have to switch over to carb at the same time as the distributor gets switched?

[datzenmike]

The CAS is no good without the EFI's ECU. It  computes the correct advance based on sensor input. Likewise the EFI won't work without CAS input.

 

On 1/6/2019 at 7:03 AM, datzenmike said:

Yes.... 8 plug wires and two coil wires.

 

The Z24i with the CAS doesn't have the vacuum advance because that is computed from sensor inputs by the fuel injection circuitry. You will have to wire the distributor to the coils as this is also fired by the EFI.

[lovot]

All right, I'll just have to do the whole conversion in one shot. Probably need to start with the adapter plate, and go from there.

[lovot]

got the head gasket swapped out, but now it runs like shit, loud tapping at idle, runs rough. The timing chain shouldn't have slipped on the crank, and the cam sprocket was lined up with the marked link, same as i had it, number 2 key hole, number 2 timing mark. At least I think it was supposed to be in the number 2 key position

[datzenmike]

Lost track of what engine you decided to run.

[lovot]

still has the z24 in it for now

[Crashtd420]

10 hours ago, lovot said:

got the head gasket swapped out, but now it runs like shit, loud tapping at idle, runs rough. The timing chain shouldn't have slipped on the crank, and the cam sprocket was lined up with the marked link, same as i had it, number 2 key hole, number 2 timing mark. At least I think it was supposed to be in the number 2 key position

You may have lost the timing chain tensioner.... they tend to pop out if not blocked properly... 

[datzenmike]

Should be ok, it was discussed on page one.

 

Was the head checked for flatness? before new gasket installed?

 

Rocker arm valve adjustment? Should all be 0.012" clearance.

[lovot]

had to file it flat, had a lot of low spots in the worst possible places. Didn't mess with the rocker arms at all, they should not have changed, but ill check them. Maybe the cam sprocket wasn't in the number 2 key position, which would put it 90 degrees out of time, I'm going to try the number 1, and if that looks wrong turning the engine over by hand, I'll see about position 3. The marked link was definitely supposed to be lined up with timing mark 2. I definitely should not have done the gasket on Sunday, but the leak was getting pretty bad, had to put water in it every 15 min or so. I still don't understand why they thought having 9 different timing positions for the cam sprocket was a good idea, the Z24 chain is tough enough that if it's stretched enough to need to account for the stretch, then it needs to be replaced, along with the guides, and tensioner, which are probably in the oil pan at that point.

 

I doubt the tensioner escaped, had a piece of 1" ID rubber hose wedged in there pretty tight, jammed in until it wouldn't go any more, and the chain is definitely tensioned, besides this thing ran much better with the tensioner and most of the guides sitting in the oil pan.

[datzenmike]

you 'filed' the head flat ????????????? kidding right?

[lovot]

nope, don't have a planer, and the warpage had to come out since that causes blown head gaskets. Files are very flat, fairly stiff, and can make other things very flat if you know how to use them. Would have preferred a lapping table, but don't have one of those either. Even a shitty file job wouldn't cause what it's doing, definitely sounds out of time.

[datzenmike]

I don't have a planer or mill either but used a sheet of thick glass from a stereo cabinet with sand paper glued to it. Draw it forward and push back and let it's weight do the work. It had a 0.015" high spot in the middle, finished below 0.002"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference between the cam dowel holes is about 4 degrees each not 90. 90 wouldn't even start. I've never seen a stretched chain. After removing about 0.015" of head and adding 0.030" of chain 'slack', the cam timing was still within range on the #2 cam dowel hole.

 

 

Try a compression test to see if the compression is being contained by the gasket.

 

 

[lovot]

I'll need to get a compression tester. Don't have a nice piece of glass to use, but that's a good idea, really similar to a lapping table.

[datzenmike]

A coffee table has to be better that hand filing a head.

[lovot]

if it were cast i would do it with a 9" angle grinder, can get it so you can see your face without distortion on steel with one of those, with cast it doesn't mirror, because cast doesn't really polish like that, but it still will make some shit precision flat. Aluminum likes to gum up disks tho, so a random glass top table would definitely be better

[datzenmike]

We're talking cast aluminum heads right? Hand filing or a 9" angle grinder are not the tools for planing a head down in any of the 11 dimensions of this string theory universe we are in. 

[lovot]

for cast iron, and steel, angle grinder will absolutely blow you away with the results it gets, use grinders to flatten shit out on a regular basis, sometimes manifolds that have to hold 3000PSI that are then sealed with RTV silicone, and RTV won't seal against 3000PSI of hot oil with significant pressure and vacuum spikes due to water hammering unless the parts are damn near precision flat. (disk has to be sized to the part, not too big, not too small, only flat disks with a built in flange and cup wheels work, cup wheels are for roughing stuff out and are too aggressive for something like this, grinding disks with a built in flange are not designed for a zero degree grind angle so they don't really remove material unless it's a high spot), but again, aluminum tends to gum up the disk, and that is a problem, so I don't even attempt aluminum with power tools if it needs to not have gouges in the surface where some aluminum caked on and then cut a path because it's basically play-doh.

 

 

The engine doesn't like to start, loud metal on metal tapping sound, when it runs it runs like garbage, runs worse the hotter it gets. being significantly out of time is not out of the question, going to investigate as soon as I have time during the day.

[datzenmike]

I'll stick with what I know how to do or what works for me. ? Too old to learn to do it free style.

[lovot]

hey, you work with what you got, your method looks great for heads, and it actually works on aluminum.

[lovot]

ok, got compression tester, cylinder 1 has zero compression, cylinders 2-4 have 120PSI, now I know why it quit running.

Also, I lost cylinder 1 while pulling into the parts store, I replaced the plugs in case they were part of the problem, engine wouldn't run after that, that means the plugs should be clean, right?

Wrong, cylinders 2-4 have soot all over the plugs despite the engine not actually running for shit after they were installed, cylinder 1 has clean plugs still. Since the starter solenoid is connected to a simple push button, I can crank it without the ignition being on, it cranks normally when the ignition is off, it struggles during each compression cycle except for cylinder 1 when ignition is on. I think the ignition timing somehow changed, and I think its way too advanced, which would cause all of these problems, including the blown gasket on cylinder 1. I'll pull the oil pump and dizzy and reset the timing to see if it runs then, one dead cylinder never stopped it before, I don't see why it would now.

[datzenmike]

Check that the #1 intake and exhaust valves have at least some clearance. A tight valve could be open and ... no compression.

 

A dropped valve seat will do the same plus audible noise. If the seat dropped the valve can't close so look at the two valve springs when at TDC. They should be both the same height. Did you notice anything when the head was off? Maybe this was the problem the first time. If the head was warped it's a good sign the engine was well over heated. If warped and a seat falls out that's even a better sign of over heating.

 

 

Advanced ignition would not blow the gasket.  120 PSI seems a little high for 8.4 compression.

 

 

[lovot]

~120PSI is exactly where it should be since I'm basically at sea level. I'll check for a dropped valve seat. The engine came with a blown coolant hose, since then, the head gasket leak constantly either blows the coolant out of the radiator cap, or it goes out the exhaust pipe. The head gasket I put in there, and the original covered all the little triangular coolant ports, is that normal?

[wayno]

If you put a headgasket in and it is still leaking(blowing exhaust into the water jacket), then you likely have a warped head or block.

[lovot]

nah, this was before, now it sounds like the timing is wrong, hopefully I can reset the ignition timing today and get it running again. I still can't figure out how the ignition timing could have changed, but it seems like it might have, and I don't have a good way to check, so reset it is.