77 b210 learning to build (Becky)

[logiccreations]

So i recently picked up a decent b210 not terrible but not good enough for me to make a nice daily and i got a great deal on some tires sooooo.... i put them on and immediately killed the clutch. but before that happened i did find out that an extra 50hp would be great any cheap ish diy ways to achieve this? iv looked into puting a turbo on it, but iv never messed with that so if thats the route i choose to go whats the biggest key things to make sure i do before? also a supercharger would be cool idk any ideas?

                                                                                                                   

Edited December 5, 2018 by logiccreations

[afracer]

Engine swap. Only reliable and cheapest way to get what you're after. 

[datzenmike]

Those tires look huge. Larger diameter will be like going from a 3.70 to a 3.5 ratio differential. This will kill acceleration and performance.

 

Stock tire is 155sr13 or 175/70R13 in today's measurement. This would be 22.7" tall. If, for example, you now have 195/70R13's on it, it would drive like you just installed a 3.528 diff.

 

 

While you can wring another 50 hp from an A14 but.... needs lots of money and the HP increase is only at top RPMs. Every day driving would not be as peppy unless you have your foot in it all the time. Alternatively a larger displacement engine, besides making more power without strain, does it at a lower RPM, where you will notice it more when driving. This is torque that pushes you back in the seat right from the start.

 

Engine swaps do NOT' drop right in' and you need a transmission that matches the swapped engine. So it really an engine/transmission swap.

 

An L20B would have what? 20 more HP? 

A Z24 maybe 30 more (but gobs of torque)

*A KA about double the A14 (more gobs of torque)

A VG30 about 160 HP? (but even more gobs of torque) 

 

*need converting the car to EFI. Although the Hardbody KA24E can be run without the EFI  using a carb on an adapter plate and an L20B distributor.

 

 

[logiccreations]

so im okay with it being not all that fast tbh and in my experience it has plenty of power to get through the mud and such (made it farther than a 2015 jeep compass) id just like to build the a14 as far as i can before i consider an engine swap

[datzenmike]

They will cost around the same. HP ain't cheap.

[logiccreations]

cost isnt a problem for me i dont have any real bills and this datsun is for experimenting on any how rather learn something new and get all the help i can before just saying ah fuck it a swap is faster

 

[Tom1200]

Nothing wrong with playing with the A14 as long as your goal isn't extracting maximum power on a budget.

 

You can get an extra 20hp for not a lot of money. Bolt on a weber DGAV, install a moderate cam, port the stock head and add 1.75" diameter exhaust. Shopping carefully and buying as many used parts as possible you should be able to do this for as little as $400. You can do the porting yourself with a Dremel.  The key is doing the valve throat area, the valve seats protrude into the port so simply finding them done so they are flush with the port opens that area up by 2mm. You don't want to change the port shape just simply clean up the obstructions.

 

if you want to spend more money you can buy a GX cylinder head $500-$700 complete, use a .6mm crush thickness head gasket $75 (eBay). You can bore the motor out to 78-79mm (see Datsun1200.com for the details) parts and matching will probably be around $400-$500. For carbs you can go with 40mm DCOE carbs, either single or double, I'm not sure on the price but anywhere from $600 used to $1000. I prefer motorcycle carbs but you will have to have a custom manifold made or make it yourself. You can by the carbs for as little as $150 but of course you could end up spending hundreds more on the manifold. Scrap the exhaust manifold for a header. So for $2500-$3000 you could get the motor up around 90-100whp with it still being street able. The A15 in my coupe is making 99whp and I spent $2500 on it. This is why many of the guys have told you to go with an engine swap.

 

I've been racing a 1200 coupe for 30 years now so my choice would be work to get 20hp more out of it and if that isn't enough look at swapping in an L18 or KA24. Also you live in an state with a large number of been involved in racing in stage rally. A used set of rally tires would be way lighter then those off road meats and you could probably get them for $50 a tires is not less. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Tom1200
Additions

[logiccreations]

ok for a na build all that sounds great and as a spare engine build its pretty cheap. that being said i do wanna put a turbo or supercharger on it and see how it all works and what not.

[logiccreations]

also i managed to kill the clutch a week ago while going through a mud pit so i had to buy a new one and install it, i had some troubles but datzenmike helped me out and we got it working smoothly again while i had the engine out i had the chance to look over everything and remove the smog pump plus ac pump now it is actually pretty quick even with them tires.

[datb210sun]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:31 AM, datzenmike said:

Those tires look huge. Larger diameter will be like going from a 3.70 to a 3.5 ratio differential. This will kill acceleration and performance.

 

Stock tire is 155sr13 or 175/70R13 in today's measurement. This would be 22.7" tall. If, for example, you now have 195/70R13's on it, it would drive like you just installed a 3.528 diff.

 

 

While you can wring another 50 hp from an A14 but.... needs lots of money and the HP increase is only at top RPMs. Every day driving would not be as peppy unless you have your foot in it all the time. Alternatively a larger displacement engine, besides making more power without strain, does it at a lower RPM, where you will notice it more when driving. This is torque that pushes you back in the seat right from the start.

 

Engine swaps do NOT' drop right in' and you need a transmission that matches the swapped engine. So it really an engine/transmission swap.

 

An L20B would have what? 20 more HP? 

A Z24 maybe 30 more (but gobs of torque)

*A KA about double the A14 (more gobs of torque)

A VG30 about 160 HP? (but even more gobs of torque) 

 

*need converting the car to EFI. Although the Hardbody KA24E can be run without the EFI  using a carb on an adapter plate and an L20B distributor.

 

 

i actually have my d21 pickup i've been trying to sell. but after reading all of these swap threads. maybe i can swap my ka24e. 130ish hp and 150ish tq would be more than enough i would need on the b210 ?

[datzenmike]

Take the time to do it right. ?

[Dguy210]

6 hours ago, datb210sun said:

i actually have my d21 pickup i've been trying to sell. but after reading all of these swap threads. maybe i can swap my ka24e. 130ish hp and 150ish tq would be more than enough i would need on the b210 ?

 

Swapping a KA24E is technically doable and having a pickup to pull parts from would help. However, it is a real pain in the ass. L20B/Z24 is still moderately difficult but much more doable and you can get lots of HP out of a built L20B. 

 

[logiccreations]

okay so iv been doing abit of research and i think id like to convert it to efi first then later down the road turbo it for shits and giggles... that is assuming i dont mess it up   

[logiccreations]

okay ima be picking up a b210 wagon with the a15 but its an auto will my a14 flywheel bolt on to the a15 or will i need a new flywheel and clutch assembly?

[datzenmike]

B-210s didn't have A15s so check that it really is. Yes it will fit, but don't forget that the end of the crank needs a pilot bushing for the nose of the 4 speed to ride in.

[logiccreations]

Maybe its a 310 wagon then i checked the block stamp to make sure it was a a15 and i need a new pilot bushing got it! Oh and its a 5 speed

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by logiccreations

[logiccreations]

okay as for the efi system would it be possible to use a single injector in the intake kinda like a tbi? or would it just be better to build an intake for 4 injectors.

 

[datzenmike]

Oh hey it could easily be a B-210 but if with an A15 the engine was swapped in that's all.

 

I would go with 4 injectors aimed into the ports. This way you can tune the intake runner lengths and adjacent cylinders do not mess it up.

[datsunrides]

If you want simple efi that you can later put low boost to, take a look at the Holley Sniper TBI setup. Looks promising and much easier to have to fab an adapter plate for the stock intake rather than trying to find a rare A14 efi manifold or fabing one for a multi port setup.

[logiccreations]

yaaaa thats a $1200 system i have money but damn thats alot for a system i could potentially build for alot less. love the idea tho maybe a tbi system off of a different car could be modified to work? like a s10 blazers tbi from the 2.8 or something like that. although im feeling like it might just be easiest to make the a carb boost ready and run it until i map out a solid plan for a more modern fuel system

[datzenmike]

You would need a similar size displacement.

[Dguy210]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

You would need a similar size displacement.

 

Early Sentra might be a good choice, displacement is close, I believe some models used TBI aside from fuel injection and the E series engines are a derivative of the A moving from OHV to OHC. 

 

Other option of course is to get a non-us FI system for the A, made quite a bit more HP too.

[logiccreations]

okay got the 79 210 wagon back home safe and sound and have just been driving it and messing with it for the past few days. it does seem quicker than the 5 speed but not faster in the long run.

 

[az_rat210]

I would go with the larger exhaust. 1.75 as mentioned above.  This makes a noticeable difference in response. Not more HP, just better usage of what the stock motor has, due to less restriction.   And you don't need to change the exhaust manifold.

 

An additional cheap mod is to get an MSD Blaster II coil.  Pull positive voltage direct from battery via a bosch relay (use positive to stock coil to power relay on).   This change will increase you base idle by 200 rpm (due to better burn).  Then adjust your idle down to stock settings.

More advance can also improve you base response.  Try 10 degrees TDC.

Nothing improves the performance of a datsun automatic except switching to manual.

 

My B210 has an A15 in it.  But I purchased it from someone who had wrecked their B210.  I believe the sumps are different from the B210 to the 210 and requires an oil pan mod to fit a B210. (but not positive on that).

[logiccreations]

okay been busy, the a14 lost compression in cylinder 4 and on the way to work then next day smashed all its plugs  😞... sucks but coulda been avoided if id just walked. with that said the a15 is in the process of being put into it just need the pilot bushing? that little brass piece for the trans to sit in and a few gaskets. are there any trusty re-ring/gasket kits for the a14s and a15s i have a feeling the 15 wont last very long theres a bit of metal in the pan but it ran fine in the wagon.