50mil or 80mil sound deadening material

[rosso]

Does anyone have a preference or is the 80 mil much better. Any BTDT experiences?

 

I am getting ready to buy some of this and getting my wife in on the project goonie.

[datzenmike]

Look at it this way... if you use 80mm and it's too quiet it's not a problem. 

[rosso]

Good one Mike!

 

I guess for the difference in price per sq.ft. of $1.50  for the thin stuff vs $2 for the thick - you are right on.

 

Amazon here I come!

[tr8er]

This stuff is designed to prevent resonance in panels.  It is best used as a small area in the resonant sections of large flat metal.  Covering a whole panel is a huge waste.  I did it with my car...   a layer of carpet pad absorbs sound better.  Best to put a square of this stuff on all flat metal panels, and install a thick/heavy material under carpets/ behind door cards.  

[datzenmike]

I covered the entire interior of my wagon (including under rear folding seat and cargo area) with roll on roofing. Cost zero. Got to be at  least 80mm thick. Roofers don't like to join small rolls so they throw away. It's flexible and dry, cuts easily with tin snips, to fold into bends and corners just warm with propane torch. You can even 'weld' it together. One side has a plastic pull off 'skin' so I left it that side up and put the carpeting back over it. Reduces tire noise on different pavement types, hissing from wet roads, pebbles thrown by tires and exhaust note. Best of all... free. 

 

Dyno Matt guys like to say it's not as good, not made from space age sound absorbent blah blah blah but I didn't pay hundreds of $ either. 

[thisismatt]

I prefer not to have volatile asphalt based crud in my cabin, especially in hot climates.

 

[datzenmike]

Volatile?  It just lays there quietly. It gets hotter on house roofs.

[rosso]

Thisismatt, I agree about the toxic stuff, but what are the alternatives if I want to quiet down the car some? Everything I have seen is black sticky stuff.

 

Once installed there would be very little surface area to off gas.

 

Thanks for the input, more things to consider. ?

[datzenmike]

Bitumen is only volatile (dangerous?) when heated above 390F. It's mostly used in pavement and roofing, so inside a car is no big hazard. This stuff looks like a sheet of rubber about 1/3" thick and a meter wide roll. It's dry, does not get on your hands from handling it and cuts easily with tin snips.

[tr8er]

1/3” thick?   That’s thicker than I’ve seen.  But if so, could work.  

 

Sould travels in waves through air.  Resonant materials can transfer those waves.  The thicker/denser the material, the more effective it will be.  If you sprayed a dense layer of acoustic foam under the undercarriage it would work wonders.  But you just couldn’t drive it on the road anymore...

 

That said, I think bedliner under the car with carpet pad in the car would be as good as it gets.  

[datzenmike]

I think maybe 1/4" I don't know but not less that 1/4".

 

My 710 has tar-like pads stuck to the floor front and back from the factory. They don't completely cover everything and have holes for the drain plugs. Then the carpet with that weird textile fiber? pad between. I covered everything, tunnel, under the seats and up behind the dash as far as I could reach. Haven't done the doors as this stuff is too thick unless I could do the outside skin (on the inside) It doesn't stick at all. That self adhesive roof stuff from Home Hardware sounds just right and not too thick to put on the inside of the door cards maybe?

 

There are 'rubberized' asphalt and straight asphalt undercoating sprays for the underside of cars. It's in a can so it's thin but you could layer it. Brush on 'tar' for roofs but lots of work and I'd be worried of forming some water traps for rust. If it could be thinned enough to pump spray it on? My 710 was 'undercoated at the dealer and the idiot teen helper sprayed one side of the driveshaft.

 

 

 

[thisismatt]

14 hours ago, rosso said:

Thisismatt, I agree about the toxic stuff, but what are the alternatives if I want to quiet down the car some? Everything I have seen is black sticky stuff.

 

Once installed there would be very little surface area to off gas.

 

Thanks for the input, more things to consider. ?

 

There are tons of companies with non-asphalt based products.  The main problem is cost.  A few off the top of my head...

 

Dynamat obviously

Second Skin Audio (mat & spray options)

Lizard Skin

Hushmat

 

[tr8er]

Hushmatt

[thisismatt]

Fat Mat

 

 

(somewhat asphalt based, though)

Edited December 1, 2018 by thisismatt

[datzenmike]

 

1 hour ago, thisismatt said:

 

There are tons of companies with non-asphalt based products.  The main problem is cost.  A few off the top of my head...

 

Dynamat obviously

Second Skin Audio (mat & spray options)

Lizard Skin

Hushmat

 

 

Cost. Some of that cost goes back into packaging, and advertising, telling you how great their product is. To a lesser extent it's like Snap-on-tools. People buy it for the prestige of having it more than how well it does the job compared to something much cheaper.

[tr8er]

Snap on hand tools are consistently good.  Comensorate to the cost difference I won’t argue, but consistently good.  Knowing the tool you buy will be a good tool without researching it is valuable.  As is knowing that you can just exchange it with your agent when he rolls up should something go wrong.  

 

All that said, I don’t buy them.  

[datzenmike]

Does he come by on Sunday?

 

They aren't THAT good, but they are THAT expensive. 

[rosso]

17 hours ago, thisismatt said:

 

There are tons of companies with non-asphalt based products.  The main problem is cost.  A few off the top of my head...

 

Dynamat obviously

Second Skin Audio (mat & spray options)

Lizard Skin

Hushmat

 

Thanks, the Dynamat and others appear to be butyl rather than asphalt, so they don't smell and are non-toxic?

 

I'm presuming most of these butyl products perform the same, within reason, so can I just source the most affordable one?

[thisismatt]

Correct.  Supposedly they outperform asphalt based as they are designed for this purpose.  Of course I haven't used all these products, but I've been into car audio for a long time, and also have negative experiences with asphalt based products, eg trunk sound deadeners used by OEM's like Honda.  One thing about asphalt based products and old cars like ours, if you spill chemicals (like gasoline) on them, they can turn into a real mess.  Butyl won't give you that kind of problem.

 

I'm a huge proponent of doing things the best way the first time, but I also can agree that something like peal & seal is great for the money and will probably work fine.  I personally don't want asphalt/tar/whatever in my cabin, though.  I use similar products in building (such as Protecto, Typar, & Dupont asphalt based flashing/sealing tape) and would not use them in my vehicles...

 

 

[Duncan]

I just did my entire 510 wagon floor with Thermo-Tec. 

 

While restoring it, I had sprayed it Lizard Skin and thought that was going to be enough.  A subsequent trip of 200 miles made me realize it was not enough. (I still have no carpet in it yet)  The insulation makes a noticable difference is noise reduction, and the trans tunnel stays cooler, too.

 

I bought four rolls of this and it was about $200 for all of it. 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-14620/overview/

 

 

 

[datsunrides]

11 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Does he come by on Sunday?

 

They aren't THAT good, but they are THAT expensive. 

 

If you have to use them as a means of your trade, they are that good. Try using something like current Craftsman or other mid range tools on a daily basis then tell me they aren’t *that good*. There is a cost benefit in the better materials, design, and ergonomics as a professional tech. As a weekend warrior, then I would agree the tool truck brands are overkill.

[datzenmike]

Where on earth would you 'have to use them'? There's no cost benefit spending $170 on an 8 piece screw driver set. They get lost/damaged at the same rate and a thief will take them before the 'other' brands. They are 'better' than most but not 5 X better. There's tons of videos with performance comparisons. The $18 breaker bar performs the same as the $145 one. Not all Snap-on-tools or all the parts are Made In The USA, they are re-branded. Buying Snap-on is like being in an arms race. 

[thisismatt]

I forgot about this one, highly reviewed on Amazon and pretty well priced:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00URUIKAK/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=AXJ5VNOZL83GP&psc=1

[datsunrides]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Where on earth would you 'have to use them'? There's no cost benefit spending $170 on an 8 piece screw driver set. They get lost/damaged at the same rate and a thief will take them before the 'other' brands. They are 'better' than most but not 5 X better. There's tons of videos with performance comparisons. The $18 breaker bar performs the same as the $145 one. Not all Snap-on-tools or all the parts are Made In The USA, they are re-branded. Buying Snap-on is like being in an arms race. 

 

Oops, sorry. I forgot you know better than anyone on anything. My bad.

[G-Duax]

I just wear ear plugs when I drive my 620......