2.3l ford ecoboost in a dime

[Jesse C.]

Do it! Be a pioneer! 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Ford sells the Ecoboost 4 cyl as a crate motor for less than $7K, and it's almost turn-key.

 

I've considered them for many swaps, but haven't had the opportunity yet. My early CJ5 plans include an Ecoboost 4 cyl.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Seen Pinto motors in Willys Jeeps

Now just import a Mitshibishi J53 willys.

I seen Ford 2.3 turbos back in the day but most seem to be hack jobs and never really see them around much anymore, Most like new owner dont know how/what going on

[Icehouse]

On 11/24/2018 at 10:58 PM, drawks said:

 

LOL calling that mazwerks motor an SR is like calling a top fuel motor a Dodge hemi. Full custom everything, aside from some shared dimensions and geometry I don't think that thing has a single stock sr20det part on it. I do like how it picks up 800hp in a 300rpm window when that monster turbo finally gets spun up tho ???

 

 

It uses the SR head which is the only thing that really changes motor to motor, hence why L motors are so lame and we are having this conversation :) 

[drawks]

1 hour ago, Icehouse said:

 

 

It uses the SR head which is the only thing that really changes motor to motor, hence why L motors are so lame and we are having this conversation ?

 

Ah yes it does use an reworked sr20ve head, I had thought it was a custom piece.

[hosestop@msn.com]

Not anti FORD -years ago people put those 1988 Thunderburd turbo 2.3  motors in 510s and peentos ,ran really good ! I can't put a Chevy in my 56 Ford truck (considering a L6 turbo for years  ?) Anyway these would be a cheap alternative and I am not dream crusher just look at all alternatives , that new stuff may cost a lot , really most bullet proof motor is Evo so bolt one of those up 2500 why not use proven motors .

[nl320what]

I believe you should read what others ideas are, then throw them all out the door and decide for yourself considering Skill Level, Tools, Budget, Availability, Time Frame, and Work Space all equally and not in any particular order.

 

I dont think you stated you had a 510 to start with already?

 

If you want a Hot Rod, 620 being a solid axle leaf spring for sure as a base, if you want a track vehicle racer than a 510 for the IRS as ideas.

 

 

[drawks]

8 hours ago, nl320what said:

I dont think you stated you had a 510 to start with already?

 

Sold my last 510 about 8 years ago when my daughter came along and I realized time and resources weren't gonna let me get my project finished. Now I've got plenty of resources and I'm planning a new project. So before I break ground I'm trying to really define what I want to do and realistically what can be done.

 

High on my list is modern turbocharged motor, I've had stock and built L series motors before and as much as I dig the period correct look of dual carbs and non-crossflow head I really want a car that I can tune with a laptop, adjust power output as the situation calls for and will start up on cold mornings without playing with a manual choke cable ?

 

Naturally sr20det and turboed ka24 we're at the top of my option list, but as stated (or maybe implied) further up in the thread 300 crank hp from either of those motors requires a decent amount of work to do reliably. So I looked at what OTHER options exist that could be price/complexity competitive with a built Nissan motor. That Ford motor popped up immediately as a 300+ hp stock option that is in high availability since it is the base motor in the current mustang (wow do those get totalled often!).

[Icehouse]

33 minutes ago, drawks said:

 

 

Naturally sr20det and turboed ka24 we're at the top of my option list, but as stated (or maybe implied) further up in the thread 300 crank hp from either of those motors requires a decent amount of work to do reliably. So I looked at what OTHER options exist that could be price/complexity competitive with a built Nissan motor. That Ford motor popped up immediately as a 300+ hp stock option that is in high availability since it is the base motor in the current mustang (wow do those get totalled often!).

 

 

Just turn up the boost a few lbs on the stock S15 SR and you'll ave 300 HP.  1psi is (rule of thumb) 10 HP on a 4 cylinder.  So it would only take 4 more psi to get to your goal on a S15 SR20DET.  I'm currently putting a S14 SR with all the S15 bits on it, I'll let you know how it runs at a little more boost :)  

 

I tell everyone to get a SR instead of a boosted KA.  KA-T's are to much work, although I'm sure less then the ford motor.  Which did sound good, well until the open deck part.  What about the turbo motor in that weird Nissan crossover SUV that looks like a frog?

 

SR's are nice, the project is getting it in, not sorting out better pistons, tuning, oil feed and return, exhaust manifold.  SR's may cost a little more but you are ahead of the game IMO.  I've done a lot of different swaps and turbo swaps.  In the end you can't see under the hood when you drive but you do only have X amount of shop time, lets make sure it's on the road instead collecting dust.  Not that I'm one to talk.....  

[drawks]

1 hour ago, Icehouse said:

Just turn up the boost a few lbs on the stock S15 SR and you'll ave 300 HP.  1psi is (rule of thumb) 10 HP on a 4 cylinder.  So it would only take 4 more psi to get to your goal on a S15 SR20DET. 

 

Was having a casual convo with Brian Rebello at Troy Ermish's shop the other day and he was saying that to reliably make 300hp with an SR they build basically the same engine end as they'd do for 500hp. "The difference between 300 and 500 is a thousand dollars more on a turbo"

 

So reliable 300hp is maybe not the same as 300hp... I'm no engine builder, I was taking him at his word. 

[nl320what]

Keep in mind that your not going to be pushing 300hp every second of motor run time like a Lemans race, so overbuilt is always better but not cheaper.

 

I look at the bottom ends of the motor designs, both KA and SR have stock main girdles but the SR is beefier and looks more refined.

 

If you wanted 300hp thing about a VQ35DE that is just about in everything out there from Maximas, Altimas, Quest Van, 350Z, its short but wide for a 510..... but it naturally comes with a forged bottom end, coated pistons, and tuning potential with tons of aftermarket and cheap parts support.

[Icehouse]

14 hours ago, drawks said:

 

Was having a casual convo with Brian Rebello at Troy Ermish's shop the other day and he was saying that to reliably make 300hp with an SR they build basically the same engine end as they'd do for 500hp. "The difference between 300 and 500 is a thousand dollars more on a turbo"

 

So reliable 300hp is maybe not the same as 300hp... I'm no engine builder, I was taking him at his word. 

 

Depends on application, I've been autoxing for 3 years now, doing what I call hill billy autoxing.  We get 12 runs that count and can do bonus time.  So I normally do 30 1 minute laps.  There have been lots of guys and different builds.  My buddy just blew the headgasket on his stock RB25 running over 20lbs of boost after years of running it that way.  Does that count as reliable?  To me it does.  

 

Yes road racing you would want a built motor, there is no class that allows a SR20DET besides unlimited.  So I doubt you are going that route.  I'll let you know how long my stock SR lasts, I'm not to worried.  From my 20 years of Datto builds I've just learned that everyone says they want to build a racecar 510, what they really want a quite, soft, power steering, stereo, with 500 hp daily.  But all they will do is a freeway pull herer and there.  No need to waist money building a race engine.   

 

[tr8er]

37 minutes ago, Icehouse said:

 

 

From my 20 years of Datta builds I've just learned that everyone says they want to build a racecar 510, what they really want a quite, soft, power steering, stereo, with 500 hp daily.  But all they will do is a freeway pull herer and there.  No need to waist money building a race engine.   

 

This is so true!  They need to make a flywheel or a wheel spring that winds up and gives you a 10 second boost of power that doesn’t tax the engine.  

Edited November 29, 2018 by tr8er

[drawks]

1 hour ago, Icehouse said:

 

Depends on application, I've been autoxing for 3 years now, doing what I call hill billy autoxing.  We get 12 runs that count and can do bonus time.  So I normally do 30 1 minute laps.  There have been lots of guys and different builds.  My buddy just blew the headgasket on his stock RB25 running over 20lbs of boost after years of running it that way.  Does that count as reliable?  To me it does.  

 

Yes road racing you would want a built motor, there is no class that allows a SR20DET besides unlimited.  So I doubt you are going that route.  I'll let you know how long my stock SR lasts, I'm not to worried.  From my 20 years of Datto builds I've just learned that everyone says they want to build a racecar 510, what they really want a quite, soft, power steering, stereo, with 500 hp daily.  But all they will do is a freeway pull herer and there.  No need to waist money building a race engine.   

 

 

This is a fair and reasonable take on the situation, I hadn't considered that the typical life of an engine from Rebello's perspective was quite different from my own ? And honestly you're absolutely right that I *want* 300hp for some occasional hoonage, but really would be happy with considerably less most of the time. Perhaps a bone stock s15 sr20det with some bolt ons and a standalone would fit my plans just fine. It is pretty easy to get wound up in bench racing and forget what the actual use case is.

[Icehouse]

55 minutes ago, drawks said:

 

This is a fair and reasonable take on the situation, I hadn't considered that the typical life of an engine from Rebello's perspective was quite different from my own ? And honestly you're absolutely right that I *want* 300hp for some occasional hoonage, but really would be happy with considerably less most of the time. Perhaps a bone stock s15 sr20det with some bolt ons and a standalone would fit my plans just fine. It is pretty easy to get wound up in bench racing and forget what the actual use case is.

 

I to get sucked into bench racing!!  Haha. 

 

To me the Rebello comment reminds me of when I was a teenager and took my motorbike wheel in for a new tube.  The dude was pissed because I tired fix-a-flat.  He told me very grumpily "That never BLEEP'n works!!!"  I tired to explain to him that if it did work I wouldn't be standing there and then he wouldn't know about the tubes it worked on.  Yeah I'm sure Rebello has seen dozen's of over boosted blown up engines, when they get them for rebuilds....  I don't see any reason they would run into a bunch of solid engines in drivers running higher boost then the engine was intended.  

 

I drifted a S13 on the street in my early years.  One of the guys who used to go still daily drives his S13, from back then.  It dynoed 285 to the wheels.  He actually wore out the BB turbo he upgraded to and put the stock S13 tubo back on and still dailies it!!!  Almost 20 years later!   which is exactly what the dudes do with their "race car 510s"  haha.  

 

I want to do a VET build like Sam.  Those motors make the power!  

[nl320what]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:19 AM, drawks said:

 

This is a fair and reasonable take on the situation, I hadn't considered that the typical life of an engine from Rebello's perspective was quite different from my own ? And honestly you're absolutely right that I *want* 300hp for some occasional hoonage, but really would be happy with considerably less most of the time. Perhaps a bone stock s15 sr20det with some bolt ons and a standalone would fit my plans just fine. It is pretty easy to get wound up in bench racing and forget what the actual use case is.

 

Also, you can have many levels of tunes on your laptop for any engine you chose with your standalone.

 

But here is alittle snippet I thought was cool in the same line your thinking from Ford:

"When the 2013 Ford Focus ST goes on sale later this year, the hot hatch will come with a factory-installed "overboost" button on its direct-injected, turbocharged 2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder engine. Although the overboost function won't increase the EcoBoost's peak power above its 252 hp and 270 lb-ft of torque ratings, it will extend the torque curve from 3000 rpm to 4500 rpm for up to 15 seconds."

 

Another idea is that we just bought a 2012 GMC Acadia AWD that has the Camaro V6, I can get a Trifecta $300 tune that boosts power about 10% and I can turn it off and on using the Cruise Control button.

 

I think Megasquirt has a tune on demand you can shift on the fly with their new motherboard/OS.

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

On 11/29/2018 at 9:26 AM, Icehouse said:

 

From my 20 years of Datto builds I've just learned that everyone says they want to build a racecar 510, what they really want a quite, soft, power steering, stereo, with 500 hp daily.  But all they will do is a freeway pull herer and there. 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. I too want that, but I know what that costs. In a 510, that would be a complete re-engineering of the car and hundreds of hours of fabrication. Not to mention the $15K in parts...

[Z-train]

On 11/25/2018 at 11:27 AM, drawks said:

 

Are you really comparing a small block Chevy V8 into a 720 pickup to a turbo charged direct injection Ford inline 4 cylinder into a 510!?!?!

 

You have to be trolling me right?

No , I'm not. Bellhousing diameter dictates sheet metal work. Plus tranny tunnel "expansion".And not a 720 , but a 620. And like Mike said- a Dime is even smaller.In addition ,(probable) custom steering column work to get the shaft moved . Lot more work than you think.

[drawks]

35 minutes ago, Z-train said:

No , I'm not. Bellhousing diameter dictates sheet metal work. Plus tranny tunnel "expansion".

 

I'm still confused where your comparison comes into play. This motor doesn't share a tranny or even bell housing bolt pattern with a Chevy or Ford V8, it uses the same Mazda/Ford pattern as a Miata or 4 cylinder light duty Ford truck.

 

I guess my question goes back to the original post. Are you guessing that it is wide and requires all this work or have you actually seen this tranny next to a common Nissan trans?

[datzenmike]

If running 275 to 300 hp you will need a reliable transmission that will handle these numbers. I don't know what Ford uses but I doubt very much a 6 speed is the size of the 50 lb. F4W63 in a 510. Probably you will need to cut metal and form around it. Why not run an automatic? Easier on you and the car, simpler too. You can use two feet to brace yourself and two hands to aim the car.

 

A 510 automatic tunnel is slightly larger diameter than the 4 speed.

[Z-train]

21 hours ago, drawks said:

 

I'm still confused where your comparison comes into play. This motor doesn't share a tranny or even bell housing bolt pattern with a Chevy or Ford V8, it uses the same Mazda/Ford pattern as a Miata or 4 cylinder light duty Ford truck.

 

I guess my question goes back to the original post. Are you guessing that it is wide and requires all this work or have you actually seen this tranny next to a common Nissan trans?

You shit is getting old. 54 years of wrenching experience tells me that the ford tranny is NOT the same size as a Datsun box. I don't need to see one side by side

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The 2.3L Ecoboost would use a Getrag MT 82 6 speed trans. It is a lot bulkier than the Datsun 5 speed. Even bigger than the T5 trans that Nissan used in the 280ZX Turbo. I have put the T5 in a 510 and it does require some tunnels mods, so the Getrag will undoubtedly require some as well.

 

See for yourselves - https://www.google.com/search?q=getrag+mt82-6&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx8fWtj4TfAhVNITQIHWecA9IQ_AUIDygC&biw=1680&bih=908#imgrc=_

 

See how big the trans is on the bottom? To have it not scrape the ground, you'd have to push the motor and trans up in the chassis.

[metalmonkey47]

I don't know about the Ford Ecoboost, but I know the GM Ecotec has been used.

 

_DSC5141 by Matt Yates, on Flickr

[tr8er]

3 hours ago, metalmonkey47 said:

I don't know about the Ford Ecoboost, but I know the GM Ecotec has been used.

 

_DSC5141 by Matt Yates, on Flickr

Wish I hated that...  looks awesome

[drawks]

3 hours ago, metalmonkey47 said:

I don't know about the Ford Ecoboost, but I know the GM Ecotec has been used.

 

Thats pretty slick, theres a build here on ratsun too with a turbo'ed honda k24. I think the ecoboost is a more compact package than either of these... I don't think I'm going to undertake the swap (actually found a pretty well sorted sr20det powered dime) but it just seems like these short modern 4 cyl motors with passenger side exhaust/turbo would be a pretty natural fit into a dime.