ka24de info

[Guest DatsuNoob]

I dug around and answered my own question. thanks anyway.

[tucker brimacomb]

i was planning a Ka24DE/5speed out of a 90 240sx into a 71 510.

[datzenmike]

In case it's different... the flappers were to block the runners at high manifold vacuum (low speed and throttle) to force turbulence for more efficient burning. Open at mid and high. Removing them requires sealing the 8 holes preferably welding them up. I suppose the screw or rivet heads could be ground off and remove the butterflies and leave the rod.

[Guest DatsuNoob]

In case it's different... the flappers were to block the runners at high manifold vacuum (low speed and throttle) to force turbulence for more efficient burning. Open at mid and high. Removing them requires sealing the 8 holes preferably welding them up. I suppose the screw or rivet heads could be ground off and remove the butterflies and leave the rod.

 

Also known as the Swirl Control Valve? It was my understanding it improved the atomization of fuel mixture and swirl velocity at idle and low RPM(which is basically what you're saying). The real question is, would it be beneficial to remove it for constant open flow(maybe a bigger cam too?), or would it make for shitty throttle response and poor fuel economy? I'm looking to maintain good throttle

Edited November 29, 2008 by DatsuNoob

[Docsis510]

does anyone have a part number for radiator hoses that can be used from a ka24de to a rabbit radiator???

[Duke]

does anyone have a part number for radiator hoses that can be used from a ka24de to a rabbit radiator???

 

For the lower hose I just used the stock 240sx hose and cut it down to fit. As for the upper hose, I'm not really sure.

[MicroMachinery]

Good question. I also am wondering the same thing. I've heard of people removing the "butterfly valves", and welding the holes shut. But then I just read something that they're for creating turbulence in the combustion chamber, and thus better driveability. For sure, any obstruction is a hindrance to airflow, but where's the trade off? I know Nissan didn't design it to be a crappy design, but is it more for emissions, or performance... I'm leaning more towards taking them out all together. The KA I bought has the butterflies taken off, but the rod is still there. Seems kinda half-assed. I'm gonna take the rod out and find someone who knows the "black-art" of aluminum welding :D

[Mr.Fahrenheit]

has anyone removed the pcv system on the intake on these ka's? if so any driveability issues?

[matt w.]

my L18 over heated and im planing to get a new head its a reacuring problem long storry im considering a KA swap how indepth is this like drive shaft slave cylinder wirering what all goes into it

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Does anyone know roughly how much fuel is comsumed (in gph or lph, doesnt matter) by a stock KA24de, or where to find such info? I'm trying to figure out the minimum volume I need in my surge tank to run the engine for a couple minutes on an empty fuel cell.

[goes2fast]

Has anyone put a DE in a 620? What do I need to know to make it fit?:confused::unsure:

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Does anyone know roughly how much fuel is comsumed (in gph or lph, doesnt matter) by a stock KA24de, or where to find such info? I'm trying to figure out the minimum volume I need in my surge tank to run the engine for a couple minutes on an empty fuel cell.

 

Bump?:confused::confused::o. There's also lots of good info on the the dual cam swap in the search feature located in the 1:30 direction at the top of this page:D

[compression]

If you are reading this thread, either you have a twin cam KA24DE, or you want to swap one in.

Here are the basics KA24DE into a 510 or 610.

1. Stock 510 driveshaft will work. You need to cut off the metal collar around the splined end, so that it slips into the KA transmission all the way. You will also need to have it shortened by a driveshaft shop. Wait until your install is complete and take some measurements VERY CAREFULLY!. This will be one of the last things you do.

 

2. Mounting:

Your front crossmember needs to be reversed in the middle to clear the oil pan. Several ways to do this. make a crude jig, cut out the center section, reverse, weld back together. Or you can buy one from Maddat, Datsport, TSR, or whatever.

You can in theory use the stock 510 fron crossmember engine mounts, but you will need a spacer in order to meet up with the KA mounts. I would advice removing the stock engine mounts from the crossmember and building new ones that allow you to really dial in the postition of the motor in the engine bay. If you try to use the stock mounts, you dont have much freedom. I also prefer to use the 240sx engine isolators, they just work better than the Datsun rubber bricks. You can also re-use the stock transmission isolator, although you will most likely want to build your own transmission crossmember, as you can get way more exhaust clearance if you do.

 

3. Swaybar, Most likely your stock front swaybar will hit the new engine. Shop around for a custom front swaybar. I would start by contacting DGR in california.

 

4. Steering link. You may also have interference with the center steering link hitting the transmission or transmission braces on the engine. IF this is an issue, contact MadDat in Australia for a reversed link.

 

5. Fuel. You can either graft-in an intank fuel pump into your stock 510 tank, or you can run an external pump (such as an inline Walbro 255LPH). I prefer the external method, since welding on a fuel tank can result in warping and leaking (unless you are really good with a TIG).

Your feed and return lines need to be at least 5/16" size tubing. If your return line is too small, the fuel pressure regulator wont be able to bleed fuel off fast enough to keep the pressure down where it should be. The pump will be controlled by a relay, which is controlled by the ECU. Make sure the pressure (feed) line from the pump goes directly to the fuel rail. The return line (back to the tank) comes from the fuel pressure regulator.

 

6. ECU - see post on previous page about what you DO NOT need to run the engine. Feel free to remove all the emissions and junk from the engine and the intake manifold (will require an EGR block-off plate). Mount the ECU somewher dry and wire up only the stuff needed. I am not going to go into detail on how to wire everything. The best thing to do is have a factory service manual and someone that knows what they are doing.

 

7. Oxygen sensor. You should have the O2 sensor (only primary sensor, the one before the CAT). Most of the time, its location in the factory intake manifold willnot work on a Datsun, because it will hit the steering box. Simply install it in the hole that the EGR tube was going into on the #4 runner.

 

8. Exhaust - Run a 2.5" exhaust. This will require enlarging the rear crossmember hole.

 

9. Use the stock KA24DE clutch and slave cylinder. You can use the stock 510 clutch master cylinder. Just need a hose to connect the slave to the car's hard line.

 

10. I have never seen hood clearance an issue with a KA, if it is, you have done something wrong or weird.

 

11. Radiator: I use the VW rabbit style radiator (with the temp switch in the end tank). It works for me, but if you want more thermal capacity you can pick whatever radiator fits. Make sure you have a good (high-CFM) electric fan, preferrably a puller. remove the crank-driven fan from the engine.

 

12. Alternator belt - see post on previous page and link to KA-T forum for a good solution.

 

13. Shifter hole - you will need to enlarge the shifter hole because the stick pops through farther back. You may also need to hammer the inside of the tunnel to add clearance for the transmission back by the shifter.

 

14. Gas pedal - I usually make a custom gas pedal that is hybrid between the stock 510 pedal and a 240sx pedal. Use the 240sx throttle cable.

 

15. Air intake - The S14 MAF sensor is 2-3/4, and so is the throttle body. Problem is, it is hard to find aluminum mandrel bends in 2.75". I usually find them through Woolf Aircraft and build a custom aluminum intake system, but people who have done this in the past have done all sorts of crazy stuff to make an intake system. Just make sure you plumb in the idle intake tube. Oh, and dont use PVC pipe, I know it might work, but it is just ghetto.

 

16. If you are using an S13 KA24DE, then you have the lovely swirl valves in the intake runners. Get rid of them, it was an effort to improve low-RPM response and improve emissions. The S14(same engine) doesnt have them. Remove the butterflies, but dont remove the shaft. Or if you dont want to take apart your intake manifold, then just disconnect the vacuum can that opens them, and make a bracket to keep them open all the time. Remove all the rest of the related components.

 

Of course there is a lot of little stuff I am not mentioning, but this is a general outline of what to expect. There are a hundred ways to do the swap, this just talks about my experiences.

[compression]

Does anyone know roughly how much fuel is comsumed (in gph or lph, doesnt matter) by a stock KA24de, or where to find such info? I'm trying to figure out the minimum volume I need in my surge tank to run the engine for a couple minutes on an empty fuel cell.

 

Probably old, but whatever.

 

It is dependent on RPM and engine load.

Stock S14 injectors are 270cc/min. You can simplify and just use 270cc/min X 4 = 1080 cc/min.

Not that this would ever happen, because your ECU doesnt run the injectors at 100% duty, but if you can handle this, then you have a good safety cushion.

[The Stig]

Actually....:D

 

The Brick/Red side-feed injectors on the KA24DE are the same as the SR20DE and VE30DE and 259cc/min

the KA24E Brick/Red top-feed are also 259cc as are the CA18DE VG30DE VQ30DE all brick/red in colour

 

The purple injectors from the SR20DET, VG30DETT and VH45DE are 370 cc/min

[]2eDeYe]

KA24E Parts need for the power steering delete. Alternator brackets (upper and lower) and thermostat housing.

 

[amie704]

If you are reading this thread, either you have a twin cam KA24DE, or you want to swap one in.

Here are the basics KA24DE into a 510 or 610.

1. Stock 510 driveshaft will work. You need to cut off the metal collar around the splined end, so that it slips into the KA transmission all the way. You will also need to have it shortened by a driveshaft shop. Wait until your install is complete and take some measurements VERY CAREFULLY!. This will be one of the last things you do.

 

2. Mounting:

Your front crossmember needs to be reversed in the middle to clear the oil pan. Several ways to do this. make a crude jig, cut out the center section, reverse, weld back together. Or you can buy one from Maddat, Datsport, TSR, or whatever.

You can in theory use the stock 510 fron crossmember engine mounts, but you will need a spacer in order to meet up with the KA mounts. I would advice removing the stock engine mounts from the crossmember and building new ones that allow you to really dial in the postition of the motor in the engine bay. If you try to use the stock mounts, you dont have much freedom. I also prefer to use the 240sx engine isolators, they just work better than the Datsun rubber bricks. You can also re-use the stock transmission isolator, although you will most likely want to build your own transmission crossmember, as you can get way more exhaust clearance if you do.

 

3. Swaybar, Most likely your stock front swaybar will hit the new engine. Shop around for a custom front swaybar. I would start by contacting DGR in california.

 

4. Steering link. You may also have interference with the center steering link hitting the transmission or transmission braces on the engine. IF this is an issue, contact MadDat in Australia for a reversed link.

 

5. Fuel. You can either graft-in an intank fuel pump into your stock 510 tank, or you can run an external pump (such as an inline Walbro 255LPH). I prefer the external method, since welding on a fuel tank can result in warping and leaking (unless you are really good with a TIG).

Your feed and return lines need to be at least 5/16" size tubing. If your return line is too small, the fuel pressure regulator wont be able to bleed fuel off fast enough to keep the pressure down where it should be. The pump will be controlled by a relay, which is controlled by the ECU. Make sure the pressure (feed) line from the pump goes directly to the fuel rail. The return line (back to the tank) comes from the fuel pressure regulator.

 

6. ECU - see post on previous page about what you DO NOT need to run the engine. Feel free to remove all the emissions and junk from the engine and the intake manifold (will require an EGR block-off plate). Mount the ECU somewher dry and wire up only the stuff needed. I am not going to go into detail on how to wire everything. The best thing to do is have a factory service manual and someone that knows what they are doing.

 

7. Oxygen sensor. You should have the O2 sensor (only primary sensor, the one before the CAT). Most of the time, its location in the factory intake manifold willnot work on a Datsun, because it will hit the steering box. Simply install it in the hole that the EGR tube was going into on the #4 runner.

 

8. Exhaust - Run a 2.5" exhaust. This will require enlarging the rear crossmember hole.

 

9. Use the stock KA24DE clutch and slave cylinder. You can use the stock 510 clutch master cylinder. Just need a hose to connect the slave to the car's hard line.

 

10. I have never seen hood clearance an issue with a KA, if it is, you have done something wrong or weird.

 

11. Radiator: I use the VW rabbit style radiator (with the temp switch in the end tank). It works for me, but if you want more thermal capacity you can pick whatever radiator fits. Make sure you have a good (high-CFM) electric fan, preferrably a puller. remove the crank-driven fan from the engine.

 

12. Alternator belt - see post on previous page and link to KA-T forum for a good solution.

 

13. Shifter hole - you will need to enlarge the shifter hole because the stick pops through farther back. You may also need to hammer the inside of the tunnel to add clearance for the transmission back by the shifter.

 

14. Gas pedal - I usually make a custom gas pedal that is hybrid between the stock 510 pedal and a 240sx pedal. Use the 240sx throttle cable.

 

15. Air intake - The S14 MAF sensor is 2-3/4, and so is the throttle body. Problem is, it is hard to find aluminum mandrel bends in 2.75". I usually find them through Woolf Aircraft and build a custom aluminum intake system, but people who have done this in the past have done all sorts of crazy stuff to make an intake system. Just make sure you plumb in the idle intake tube. Oh, and dont use PVC pipe, I know it might work, but it is just ghetto.

 

16. If you are using an S13 KA24DE, then you have the lovely swirl valves in the intake runners. Get rid of them, it was an effort to improve low-RPM response and improve emissions. The S14(same engine) doesnt have them. Remove the butterflies, but dont remove the shaft. Or if you dont want to take apart your intake manifold, then just disconnect the vacuum can that opens them, and make a bracket to keep them open all the time. Remove all the rest of the related components.

 

Of course there is a lot of little stuff I am not mentioning, but this is a general outline of what to expect. There are a hundred ways to do the swap, this just talks about my experiences.

 

Now that's a helpful post!!! :)

[compression]

News flash:

It looks like I have come across a California emissions 1995 KA24DE. There are a few differences with the non-cali kA.

-The water temp sensor is purple and not red.

-It has an electric air pump (or something weird like that) inside the curl of the intake manifold)

-It has a 4 wire oxygen sensor (standard is one wire)

-It has a throttle body with two plugs on it.

-The ECU has a sticker on it that says CA

-Knock sensor on CA engine does not plug into harness of a non-CA engine

 

Just some weird things to note. Probably not helpful for anyone...

[Guest DatsuNoob]

I've seen this before, but didnt wanna lose it again.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240SX_Performance_Modification/KA24DE_and_KA24E/ITB's

 

*edit* ATTN MOD- feel free to remove this post, Naz already linked this. OOPS :D

[dennis]

I am buying all my misc. parts for this swap right now.

 

One thing, I thought you can use 620 motor mounts with the 510 reversed crossmember and have no issues?

[Robertwb70]

 

16. If you are using an S13 KA24DE, then you have the lovely swirl valves in the intake runners. Get rid of them, it was an effort to improve low-RPM response and improve emissions. The S14(same engine) doesnt have them. Remove the butterflies, but dont remove the shaft. Or if you dont want to take apart your intake manifold, then just disconnect the vacuum can that opens them, and make a bracket to keep them open all the time. Remove all the rest of the related components.

 

 

The S14 doesn't have the valves but it does have smaller cams to accomplish the same thing (improved low end torque and drivability)

 

The big selling point of the KA motors was that they had something like 85% of peak torque available from 2,500 RPMs on up, which was pretty good back then with a 4 cylinder.

 

I think of them like EGR, they only function at part throttle and they provide more benefits (slight) than removing them (none) would so I keep mine intact.

[Darkslide]

So who all knows what it takes to swap a KA24DE into an '82 720KC. I know a couple have done it but all I find is the 510 swap stuff. I happen to have a couple KA's laying around out of my S13.

[]2eDeYe]

Shouldn't be any different than putting one into a 620. You should already have the correct transmission.

 

How I did it

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/22191-1977-620-kingcab-deluxe/

[Rustina 510]

This thread has become my main read lately, hoping to pick up a nice ka24de.

 

Just one question that I have searched for an havnt found a yeah or neah, will a 280z 5 speed bolt right up to a Ka motor? I'm asking because the Ka I'm looking at does not have a tranny and I have a good condition z 5 speed, hoping to avoid buying another tranny if I don't have to

[]2eDeYe]

Nope, you will need the later model bellhousing to make the 280z transmission work with the KA.

 

I got my 5-speed for my KA from a NAPZ 720 for $75 at the pull-a-part.