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ka24de info

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hey guys, and gals... im new to this forum and to the datsun world.

i got a freshly rebuilt ka24de from a 91 240sx with 5 spd tranny. i rebuilt the engine myself after my bro seized it up during and overheat.. anyway, i also just got my hands on a 79 210 wagon and wanna swap the ka into it.. i cant really find anything for this particular swap. mostly 510 stuff. the wagons an auto if that helps, but my questions are: does it drop right in? if so, what other clearance issues do i have to worry about? and how do i wire it up? again, have looked at a bunch of posts and cant find anything specific. if someone can help me out with a link or any helpful info on this swap, i'd greatly appreciate it. thanks in advance.

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^^ I'm about to. lol. pulling the z24 out this weekend. I've got a 2wd '86 720 as well but the motor was "rebuilt" before purchase and I found out after purchase that it burns 3 qts of oil in 2 weeks and now doesn't start on its own. Sooooooooooooooooooooo I've got a spare ka laying in the garage that will be seeing a new home very soon. Doing some research myself before diving in. Mainly the electrical is throwing me off. I want that Can/Am box that Icehouse sells... just not entirely sure on how it works. Yet I don't want to tackle the 34 page thread lol. Looks like I've got some light reading ahead of me.

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Has anyone done a ka24de swap in a '86 720 2wd?

 

 

Supposedly you can mix and match the Z2X mounts and the KA mounts and get it to fit. 

 

 

^^ I'm about to. lol. pulling the z24 out this weekend. I've got a 2wd '86 720 as well but the motor was "rebuilt" before purchase and I found out after purchase that it burns 3 qts of oil in 2 weeks and now doesn't start on its own. Sooooooooooooooooooooo I've got a spare ka laying in the garage that will be seeing a new home very soon. Doing some research myself before diving in. Mainly the electrical is throwing me off. I want that Can/Am box that Icehouse sells... just not entirely sure on how it works. Yet I don't want to tackle the 34 page thread lol. Looks like I've got some light reading ahead of me.

 

 

First post in this thread should have all the information you need to wire it up. 

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/537-how-to-wire-a-ka-ca-sr-and-vg-into-anything/

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Yeah, I've actually seen it done in person now. It was at a meet here in Vegas. I don't know how he did it because I never got to talk to him but it was in there. It sat a little high probably because of oil pan clearance. But I have found a thread where someone swapped in a KA24DE already.

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would it be good to slice out some of the oil pan?

As long as you know someone you trust to weld it back together to not leak and hold under pressure

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wow.... a pinned thread about DE's ive missed....... 

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if you want to take out the swirl control valve (butterfly valves in intake man.) use the lower S13 intake man and upper S14 intake man. the S14 DID NOT have the valves. and also if you have S14 swap out both cams from the S13, the S13 have larger cams.

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Ok I had a question with the wiring and the ecu best way to integrate the 97 altma ecu and how much of the internal dash harness

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I did not read this article, so I'm sorry I this is a double post, but I'd like to share some info I hve learned recently.

I have found out thAt the KA24DE in a Frontier / Xterra is actually a "single cam block" with a dohc head on it. It uses a distributor and oil pump ran off the nose of the crank, therefore practically being very close identical to the KA24E. It even has a single row timing assembly like the sohc KA.

Now, I want to share this info with those seeking to carb their DOHC. (Frontier / Xterra DOHC, that is.)

Off the top of my head I've came up with two ideas......

1. Sohc KA block with Frontier / Xterra head, NOT tested! Add an L series dizzy and some carbs! Nice!

    aI have not confirmed this, I'm unsure if it is doable.

2. Stock Xterra / Frontier engine with SOHC KA oil pan (for front sump, of course) and then put a L series distributor, and carbs - NICE!

 

Debate!

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had a question about throttle cable and pedal for ka 510 been researching all day...

 

some people say the best option is an 80-83 200sx pedal and cable but seems like it would be hard to come by...

 

then some say 240sx pedal and cable which is easy to find...actually will be picking up a cable and pedal tomorrow after work.

 

now if i choose to cut and weld the 240 end onto the end of the 510 pedal what would be used as a return spring if any? (seems like the least work) 

 

thats why i want to see if i can make the 240 pedal work cause that one already has a spring on the pedal assembly unlike the 510.

only reason i say i want to see if i can make it work is because i dont have a welder or any welding skills (needs to change soon hopefully)

 

 

if anyone has done it or can chime in it would be highly appreciated

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so you have something to look at instead of just words

 

240 pedal

14957_01_zpse454f891.jpg

510 pedal

159datsun_510_gas_pedal_linkage_zps6b2f9

 

 

picture of a 240 pedal in a 510 that someone made a bracket for...might see if i can do something like that...i would like to keep the stock 510 pedal..guess well see tomorrow night

 

382240_10151456561130926_1811454121_n_zp

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has anyone removed the pcv system on the intake on these ka's? if so any driveability issues?

 

yes i deleted the 4 lines going to one under the intake runners and just ran a hose from the pcv valve to a oil catch can so there is no longer oil getting into my intake.... 

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Here is some more KA-DE info that might be handy to someone doing a swap.

These are things you can remove from the engine and wiring harness and still have the car function perfectly:

 

-Crank angle sensor (located on transmission bell housing -S14 models)

 

 

 

it looks like my s13 harness has this and would like to clarify if it can be removed without consequence  

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This applies to the following engine:

1991 Nissan 240SX KA24DE Manual Transmission 49-State Federal

1991KA24DEECCS.jpg

1 – White (shielded) – Ignition signal – to trigger pin of power transistor
2 – Yellow/Red – Tachometer – to tachometer
3 – Yellow/Red – Ignition check – to resistor
4 – Red/Black – ECCS relay (Self-shutoff) – to ground pin of ECCS relay
5
6 – Black – Ground – to ground
7 – Green/Black – CONSULT Receive (RX) – to CONSULT RX

9 – Orange/Blue – Condenser fan relay – to ground pin of condenser fan relay
10
11 – Green/Yellow – Air conditioner relay – to ground pin of air conditioner relay
12
13 – Black – Ground – to ground
14 – Green/White – CONSULT Clock (CLK) – to CONSULT CLK
15 – Green – CONSULT Transmit (TX) – to CONSULT TX
16 – White (shielded) – Mass air flow sensor – to signal pin of mass air flow sensor
17 – Black (shielded – Ground – to ground
18 – Blue/Orange – Engine coolant temperature sensor – to engine coolant temperature sensor
19 – White (shielded) – Oxygen sensor – to oxygen sensor
20 – White (shielded) – Throttle position sensor (TPS) – to signal pin of TPS
21 – Black – Sensor ground – to ground pins of TPS and engine coolant temperature sensor
22 – White (shielded) – Crankshaft position sensor (Reference signal) – to pin “d” of crankshaft position sensor
23 – Green/Red – CONSULT Check (CHK) – to CONSULT CHK
24 – Red – Check Engine Light (CEL) – to CEL
25 – Gray – Swirl control valve control solenoid valve – not needed
26
27 – White (shielded) – Knock sensor – to knock sensor
28
29 – Black – Sensor ground – to ground pins of TPS and engine coolant temperature sensor
30 – White (shielded) – Crankshaft position sensor (Reference signal) – to pin “d” of crankshaft position sensor
31 – Black (shielded) – Crankshaft position sensor (Position signal) – to pin “c” of crankshaft position sensor
32 – Yellow/Green – Speed signal – to speedometer
33 – Yellow/Blue – 5th position switch – to 5th position switch
34 – Orange – Start signal – 10A fused power when ignition is turned to ST
35 – Green/Orange – Neutral position switch – to neutral position switch
36 – Black/Red – Ignition switch – 30A fused power when ignition is turned to ON or ST
37 – Light Green/Red – Throttle position sensor power supply – to power pin of throttle position sensor
38 – Black/White – Power supply for ECM – load pin of ECCS relay
39 – Black – Ground – to ground
40 – Black (shielded) – Crankshaft position sensor (Position signal) – to pin “c” of crankshaft position sensor
41 – Blue/Green – Air conditioner switch – to thermo control amp
42 – Yellow/Red – 4th position switch – to 4th position switch
43 – Brown – Power steering oil pressure switch – to power steering oil pressure switch
44 – Green/Yellow – Rear window defogger relay – to ground pin of rear window defogger relay
45 – Green/Blue – Fan switch – to ambient switch
46 – Red – Power supply (Back-up) – 25A fused constant power
47 – Black/White – Power supply for ECM – load pin of ECCS relay
48 – Black – Ground – to ground
101 – White/Black – Injector Number 1 – to injector Number 1
102 – Pink – Pulsed Secondary Air Injection Valve control solenoid valve – not needed
103 – Green/Black – Injector Number 3 – to injector Number 3
104 – Black/Pink – Fuel pump relay – to ground pin of fuel pump relay
105 – Light Green – Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and canister control solenoid valve – not needed
106
107 – Black – Sensor Ground – to ground
108 – Black – Sensor Ground – to ground
109 – Red – Power supply (Back-up) – 25A fused constant power
110 – Yellow/Black – Injector Number 2 – to injector Number 2
111
112 – Blue/Black – Injector Number 4 – to injector Number 4
113 – Sky Blue – Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) Auxiliary Air Control (AAC) valve – to IACV-AAC valve
114
115
116 – Black – Sensor Ground – to ground
============================================
This is the engine harness. Nissan calls it the "E.F.I." harness. Given a completely stock harness, the only wiring that is needed to fit this engine/ECU combination into any chassis will be done through the connectors highlighted in the picture:

KAEngineHarness.jpg
==========================================
This is the "F1" plug pinout. It's the brown plug under the dash that connects to the engine harness next to the ECU.

1991240SXF1.jpg

This is the pinout for the F1 plug:

1991240SXF1Pinout.jpg

Going top to bottom, left to right:

1 - Green/Red - CONSULT CHK - to CONSULT CHK pin
2 - Black - Ground - to engine ground

4 - Red - CEL - to CEL
5 - Green/White - CONSULT Clock (CLK) – to CONSULT CLK pin
6 - Green/Yellow - Rear window defogger relay ground - to ground pin of rear window defogger relay
7 - Green/Black - CONSULT Receive (RX) – to CONSULT RX
8 - Green - CONSULT Transmit (TX) – to CONSULT TX
9 - Orange - Start signal – 10A fused power when ignition is turned to ST
10
11
12
13 - Blue/Green – Air conditioner switch – to thermo control amp 
14 - Yellow/Green – Speed signal – to speedometer 
15 - Yellow/Red – Tachometer – to tachometer 
16
=============================================
The F8 and F9 plugs sit behind the battery box area. They're usually referred to as the white (although it looks more gray) and brown connectors by the FSM.

1991240SXF8F9.jpg

Pinout for F8:

1991240SXF8Pinout.jpg

Going top to bottom, left to right:


2 - Blue/Green - Air conditioner relay power for fast idle control device (FICD) - to load pin of air conditioner relay
3 - Orange/Blue - Condenser fan relay – to ground pin of condenser fan relay
4 - Black/White - Power supply for ECM – load pin of ECCS relay
5 - Green/Yellow - Air conditioner relay – to ground pin of air conditioner relay
6 - Red - Power supply (Back-up) – 25A fused constant power
7 - Black/Red - Ignition switch – 30A fused power when ignition is turned to ON
8 - Green/Blue - Fan switch – to ambient switch

Pinout for F9:

1991240SXF9Pinout.jpg

Going top to bottom, left to right:

1 - Red/Black - ECCS relay (Self-shutoff) – to ground pin of ECCS relay
2 - Black/Pink - Fuel pump relay – to ground pin of fuel pump relay
3 - Black/Yellow - Air regulator power - to load pin of fuel pump relay
4 - Green/Orange - Neutral position switch – to neutral position switch
5 - Yellow/Blue - 5th position switch – to 5th position switch
6 - Pink - Pulsed Secondary Air Injection Valve control solenoid valve – not needed
7 - Yellow/Red - 4th position switch – to 4th position switch
8 - Brown - IACV-AAC power - to 10A fused power when ignition switch is turned to ON/ST

================================================
Bare minimum needed to make the engine run without throwing any CEL code:

F1: nothing

F8: 
4 - Black/White - Power supply for ECM – load pin of ECCS relay
6 - Red - Power supply (Back-up) – 25A fused constant power
7 - Black/Red - Ignition switch – 30A fused power when ignition is turned to ON

F9:
1 - Red/Black - ECCS relay (Self-shutoff) – to ground pin of ECCS relay
2 - Black/Pink - Fuel pump relay – to ground pin of fuel pump relay
3 - Black/Yellow - Air regulator power - to load pin of fuel pump relay
8 - Brown - IACV-AAC power - to 10A fused power when ignition switch is turned to ON/ST


I recommend you also add the following wires for maximum driveability:

F1:
9 - Orange - Start signal – 10A fused power when ignition is turned to ST

F8:
Nothing

F9:
4 - Green/Orange - Neutral position switch – to neutral position switch
5 - Yellow/Blue - 5th position switch – to 5th position switch
7 - Yellow/Red - 4th position switch – to 4th position switch

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Tendril, is this running yet? Sent you a PM. Very much want to speak with you. Thank you for the detailed post.

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its a sender they used for 10-ish years but it plugs into the ka and also sr/rb harness i believe 

Thanks for the info! :thumbup:

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