Hot LZ23

[datzenmike]

Can you post a picture of this transmission? There are FS5W63A transmissions used on the first gen 200sx, and optional on the A10 and the later B-210. The C would indicate 'competition' (steel synchros) but I haven't heard of them. Perhaps NISMO had them.

 

The FS5W63A was a 26" long (same as the stock 510) dogleg shift pattern and adequate for a 2 liter in a light car. A better choice would be the FS5W71B from a Z car, 810 or the 620 truck. It's a six cylinder strength transmission and there are 3 ratio sets you can choose from.

 

Byron on The Realm had/has a Z22 with side drafts and L head (open chamber I believe) with mystery cam and the dyno sheet said 132 RWHP. He switched to home made EFI and 134RWHP so the side drafts were spot on. Yours is probably north of that.

 

 

[scooter]

4 hours ago, Bastard_510 said:

I’m going to turn my flywheel down to 13 lbs. i have a set of arp flywheel and pressure plate bolts but i haven’t picked a clutch yet. I have a Fs5c63a#2 trans I’m planing on using. That should hold the power right? Anyone know what this engine should make?

The exedy ones are good stock replacement ones but the pressure plates are fuckin heavy. Last time around i had an act 225mm 6 puck in it and it was decent. I have the exedy in it right now but i may go back to an act or another brand to cut the weight down, im using a grw flywheel (12lbs) and a 240mm exedy pro kit for a 300zx.

 

as for the trans....

If your nice to it, it will last a while. I ran this tranny for a few months with the good motor ( my car is where most of these trannys come from) but was steadily getting louder if i leaned on it, that was with no nitrous use too. They arent a very strong tranny but they are very light. If this was a stock L20b with side drafts it would probably be ok.  You will probably kill it.

 

If you want the shifter to be close to the same place look at d21 71c trannys. You need to do the bellhousing mod but it isnt really that big of a deal.

 

the 71c trannys are strong as long as they have healthy bearings, they arent bad to re-bearing either. Bearing and synchro kits are on ebay for a low price.

 

You can also fit s13 gears into the d21 case to get a double cone synchro on 2nd gear, which helps. Also the s13 5th gear is stronger, but the d21 has a closer ratio 5th. You can change this gear in them fairly easily so its your choice.

 

considerations for this are:

finding a good one

need an L 71b bellhouing

the speedo cable comes out at a different angle, minor floor dent required

its an inch longer than a dogleg but stock driveshaft might work? 

Trans mount is also slightly off, can be modified to work or make a new tranny mount (easier)

 

if the stock driveshaft doesnt fit, there is a slip yoke available for these trans to accept a 1310 type u joint so you could upgrade this as well and ditch the shitty little ones. 

 

This trans will also fit in the tunnel without hitting the floor, which i think a t-5 actually will hit the floor in a 510. Someone else here may know.

[scooter]

Below is from datsun 1200.com

i would call these believeable numbers to go off of For gearbox strength.

 

Datsun boxes are numbered by the distance between the centres of the countershaft and the main shaft. 56 series 56 mm, 60 series 60 mm, 63 series 63mm.

Approximate guides are 50 % up on the stock engine torque:

* 56L 4 speeds     105 lb.ft (Datsun 1200)
* 56A boxes        120 lb.ft (Datsun B210 & B310)
* 60 series boxes  135 lb.ft
* 63 series boxes  175 lb.ft
* 71B series boxes 240 lb.ft
* 71C series boxes 300 lb.ft
* 90 series boxes ~290 lb.ft Borg Warner T5 in 1982-1983 280ZX Turbo 

[Bastard_510]

I got a l20 in right now with a 4 speed. Everything is level. With the z22 and the 80 510 trans everything should be in the same spot right? 

It could be a w mike i didn’t really remember what letter was in between 5 and 63. It said LZ. 

 

I can’t do a burn out with my tire size so it won’t be abused but i don’t see a 86-89 d21 near me right now so I’ll have to wait. 

 

I have both the L and z dog legs. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Bastard_510

[datzenmike]

6 minutes ago, Bastard_510 said:

I got a l20 in right now with a 4 speed. Everything is level. With the z22 and the 80 510 trans everything should be in the same spot right? 

It could be a w mike i didn’t really remember what letter was in between 5 and 63. It said LZ. 

 

  I have both the L and z dog legs. 

 

If running a Z22 block but with an L head (basically a 'stroker' L22B) you'll need the L series dogleg for it to sit right in the car. If the Z22 box is in better shape you can swap the L series front case onto it to convert it to L series use.

 

The Z series dogleg has a very slightly closer ratio gear set than the L series transmission. First and second are closer to third than the L series box. Both boxes have the same 3rd, 4th and over drive.  

[scooter]

it should be a bolt in. the speedo cable is in a different spot at comes out at an angle on the dogleg.  it should work though. and mikes right about the gears. I remember 2-3 in the L dogleg was pretty far apart compared to 1-2.

 

you can also use an s12 or s13 or s14 trans but they are longer. but they still need the L series 71B bellhousing.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would not use a "dogleg" 5 speed with any motor as powerful as this could potentially be.

 

BTW- that name...dogleg...so dumb. Like dizzy. Hate that too.

[datzenmike]

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I would not use a "dogleg" 5 speed with any motor as powerful as this could potentially be.

 

BTW- that name...dogleg...so dumb. Like dizzy. Hate that too.

 

I second not using the dogleg for this or use it, but be on the lookout for a 71B to replace it later. Sometimes they drop into your hands, just now what you want and be ready.

 

 

[wayno]

I wrote a how to article on how to make a short shaft 5spd for your 521 because I hate them dogleg 5spd transmissions, having to change out 4 of them in 5 years kinda sucks/didn't help my attitude about them, the transmission I made lasted 5 years and it still worked fine except for the 2nd gear syncro and it popped out of first under compression, but that was my work truck, dogleg 5spds are fine in a car that doesn't haul weight or tow anything.

Edited June 5, 2019 by wayno

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Not even fine in a car that has over 120hp.

 

The reason they gained notoriety is because of the shift pattern which is the same as a Datsun Comp direct drive 5 speed. So every boy-racer wannabe thought since the shift pattern is the same, it must be a good trans.

 

They're good in the sense that they are lightweight and compact, but that's about it.

[datzenmike]

Very popular because they are a direct swap into a PL510 with a smaller L16 engine. Exact same (sedan) ratios (so no getting used to a different take off) but with a reasonable over drive 5th for cruise speeds. Speedometer is also in the same position. Mount needs some work is all. A race car transmission doesn't use first much outside the pits so stuffing it under reverse makes the 2 to 3 and 4th to 5th a faster straight shift. I think the up over and up/down over and down would get tiresome in town driving.

 

They did use them in the S10 200sx with a 95hp L20B but I think that's the upper limit. With a 63mm distance between main and counter shafts you are limited in gear and bearing size that holds them. The 71B is 71mm between. Trucks with L18 and above were all rugged six cylinder 71B 4 and 5 speeds.

 

[john510]

10 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Not even fine in a car that has over 120hp.

 

The reason they gained notoriety is because of the shift pattern which is the same as a Datsun Comp direct drive 5 speed. So every boy-racer wannabe thought since the shift pattern is the same, it must be a good trans.

 

They're good in the sense that they are lightweight and compact, but that's about it.

They gained notoriety because they were a direct fit.

[datzenmike]

Great minds think alike....

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I should have said they gained the name dogleg from the shift pattern.

 

I had one in my 320, and the first to second shift wasn't troublesome at all.

[john510]

I always loved that shift pattern.Odd at first but i got used to it real quick.

[datzenmike]

I has to be slower than the regular H pattern in traffic.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The shifter sort of self centers when you're not holding it, making the 1-2 shift not as cumbersome as you'd think. So all you really have to do is push forward, with a minute jog to the right.

[wayno]

I had several doglegs in my work truck, I found it hard to go from 1st gear to second gear when I would make a turn onto a road that went up hill right after the turn, I had an L20b in the truck at that time and with the trailer with all my pressure washing equipment in it and a half ton or more of debris in/on the flatbed it was tough to keep that truck moving up hill, once I moved away from the dogleg 5spd to the 71B I found that I was hard on the second gear syncro as I mentioned in my last post being I was slamming it into that gear trying to keep the truck moving up hill when shifting, the LZ23 sure helped with the hill issues, but that truck and the way I drive is hard on transmissions, it takes power to keep sometimes 7000lbs moving, that is why I had 1990 D21 V6 front disc brakes on my modified 521 work truck, it takes good brakes to stop sometimes 7000lbs also.

Now maybe everyone understands why I went thru 4 doglegs in 5 years and why I had to figure out how to make a 71B shortshaft 5spd out of the 85/86 Nissan truck that fit my L block, I was very tired of replacing that transmission.

The dogleg 5spd is really not a good transmission for a truck, it's not a good transmission for a car either if that car spends a lot of time on the freeway, 5th gear starts howling if your in 5th gear for hours on end.

Edited June 5, 2019 by wayno

[hang_510]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:37 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I would not use a "dogleg" 5 speed with any motor as powerful as this could potentially be.

 

BTW- that name...dogleg...so dumb. Like dizzy. Hate that too.

 

On 6/4/2019 at 5:32 PM, datzenmike said:

I second not using the dogleg

I must have the only bullet proof dogleg.

I've abused it for 12 years and who knows what the PO racing did to it.

Change fluid regularly and doesn't grind. It's almost time for syncros.

2-3 & 3-2 in the canyons is the best feature. 

I'm happy with the roadster pp\clutch setup. 

 

I occasionally try to shove it into R at red lights 😜

[scooter]

These issues above is why i switched. I do miss the pattern though. These days i wouldnt even muck with a 71b, just mod the housing and run c geartrain where you wont break it with an l series without serious power adders. Ill letcha know when i strip 3rd gear in a c, at that point i will be going cd009 or t56... behind a 4 banger hahahahaha.. 

 

Please put spray on this thing so it rips ass 🙂

[Bastard_510]

happy tuesday ive been waiting for this day for a while.

 

 

 

i finally got my pistons. they have a anti detonation coating and a "run to fit" skirt coating

 

my copper head gasket came in 

 

and i picked up a set of 48's with 3" manifolds

 

all block machine work is done. i still have to deck the head and clean everything. the gasket company messed up on a set of gaskets so if anyone needs a copper .040" gasket they have 2 already made for a l20b. lubbock gaskets in lubbock, TX. they also have the pattern to make 90mm lz gaskets. 

 

 

 

im buying a ka trans with a l bell housing in july so ive got the tran figured out. thanks for all the input

Edited June 25, 2019 by Bastard_510

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Nice!

 

I don't know how much experience you have with custom engine builds, but I would take a minute to knock the sharp edges off the piston domes. Any little sharp edge can cause detonation and a simple smoothing with a cartridge roll or  a flap wheel on a die grinder can knock those down in no time.

 

Also, drill the #2 and #4 main bearing oil feed holes to 1/4", do the same with the #2 and #4 bearings. Chamfer all the holes before assembly. This gives much needed extra oiling to the rods.

[scooter]

what pin height are those pistons? if they're 35.5mm i wouldn't mind getting the build number so i can order a set for myself for the next refresh 🙂 those are some nice slugs.

 

I approve of what i see. 

 

If the copper doesn't work out Kameari has 90mm bore L4 mls gaskets in stock in various thicknesses. i had one here in a week and cost 330 canadian pesos. they work no issues so far this year and I've put a bottle through it with the 125 jets now just FYI -- head studs.

 

stoff is correct about the oil gallerys, these things half oil like a subaru (knock knock) although i have not done this and not had issues. it not a bad thing to do and thats also mentioned in the "how to hotrod" book.  He is also right about the pistons. even just a strip of emery cloth on your thumb and a 2 minute rub along the edges of the valve reliefs and dish will help. same with the head.

Ive seen alot of engines become diesels from razor sharp freshly surfaced heads being bolted back on without the little rub along the edges.

 

should be a good lil ripper. glad to hear your going with a ka tranny

 

[datzenmike]

On 6/25/2019 at 3:57 PM, Bastard_510 said:

happy tuesday ive been waiting for this day for a while.

 

 

 

i finally got my pistons. they have a anti detonation coating and a "run to fit" skirt coating

 

Anti detonation coating? Isn't that usually ceramic? Looks transparent.

 

 

On 6/25/2019 at 5:55 PM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Nice!

 

I don't know how much experience you have with custom engine builds, but I would take a minute to knock the sharp edges off the piston domes. Any little sharp edge can cause detonation and a simple smoothing with a cartridge roll or  a flap wheel on a die grinder can knock those down in no time.

 

 

 

 Wouldn't that be better before the coating?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The domes don't look coated to me.