KA24E Donor Mileage Too High?

[JohnnyBlaze]

Is 210,000 miles too high for KA24E to use for swap?

 

I recently bought a 1978 620 that has been sitting for “7” years. I will need to do lots of rust repair as well as go through everything. I plan to take the L20 and 5 speed out and swap a KA. I wasn’t sure to do an E or De, but I’ve been reading a lot about the options and figure I’ll just get whatever I can find for the best price and mileage. There is an 89 KA24E that came from a 240sx 5 speed with 210,000 miles. It was pulled out for a swap and supposedly ran great with no issues. They are asking $500 for everything which doesn’t sound too bad. Sure I’d love to find a low mileage motor, but I feel these donor engines/cars and trucks are getting older and will most likely have higher miles. I’m really not in a rush as the truck needs a lot of work before I get to the engine, but that doesn’t keep me from looking for the swap parts. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!

[datzenmike]

They all ran great when parked.

 

There's not much you can do to check it. See if you can run a compression test on it. Over 150 on a cold engine would be OK for $500. Spin the oil filter off and empty it out. Look for shiny particles from a spun bearing. What does the oil look like? Pull the valve cover off... is the aluminum head and valve train clean and shiny or chocolate with coked on oil from too few oil changes? Pull the plugs, all of them. Ideally they should be light tan.... any black is probably burning oil from guide seals or worn rings.

[JohnnyBlaze]

With the engine already being out I don’t think there is much chance of doing a compression check. I would definitely pull the cover, look at plugs, and oil. There are a couple performance shops not far from me that do swaps. I was thinking of going there and seeing if they have any KA’s they pulled out of 240’s that they would sell. I’m still undecided if I really want an E or DE. The DE looks nice under the hood, but like I said before...I might just get whatever I can find for the the best price and condition. I think the harder part with be finding a transmission. There are usually a few hardbodies in the junkyard by me, so I might have to pull the trans from one of those. The bad thing is I have no way of knowing the condition of those transmissions. The other trans options used for these swaps will be hard to find by me. 

[datzenmike]

If the engine and transmission are together the starter is probably on too. You just need a battery to turn it over.

 

You do know this is going to cost $3-5K to get done. Don't start unless you have the cash ready. Shops are either expensive or incompetent with dodgy work and why most people do it themselves, but then you need a place for several months, tools and fabricating skills and experience. Many are the owner that didn't stay involved with a swap and it spirals out of control.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I did watch a video last night about using a battery, jumper cables, and a wire to crank the engine over for compression testing. I will probably do that...thanks. 

 

You are saying it will cost $3-$5k to do a KA swap in a 620 myself? I do plan to do the swap myself and from what I read should cost less than $2k. I was planning to source the engine swap mounts and Can/Am from members on here. I’d do a tune up and probably new timing chain before the motor goes in. If I understood correctly I believe I can use the whole 240 KA24E engine and tranny. Modify the oil pan or centerlink mod. Then trim the original 620 driveshaft shield a bit and it should bolt up. Obvious I’ll need fuel related items, but that seems to be the basic install. Correct me if I’m wrong. 

[]2eDeYe]

You're not wrong, but neither is Mike. lol 

 

Lot's of factors involved in a swap. :)

[JohnnyBlaze]

Hopefully I can find a good donor for cheap. I’d rather not spend a ton of money on the swap, but I know it can get out of control thinking “well I should change this or that before I drop the motor in”. I think finding a 720 trans will not be possibly in my area. Then I just need to decide if I really want an E or DE. I guess the hardbody trans is better or stronger than the 240, but if I get that whole 89 240 swap should I just use both engine and trans from that? They did message me last night and said they found the ECU. I might go look at it since it’s only about 40mins from me. I’ll try to do a compression test and look over all the parts Mike suggested. If it all looks good then I’ll try to get it even cheaper than the $500 they are asking. Or should I hold out for a hardbody or DE? I know if I got a hardbody swap I’d want to get a 240 intake manifold and need 240 harness and ECU, so getting a 240 engine may just save me some work. I ultimately want a fun, reliable, decent powered truck, with suspension, wheels, and maybe some bolt on upgrades. 

[datzenmike]

Let's put it this way have more that you think you need before you start.

 

The 240sx transmission is way longer that the 620 71B is...

 

 

S13 5 speed. This photo was marked 33.25" to shifter which somewhat agrees with what I remember of the total length being around 35". The 71B is 31.5".

 

 

 

Here the S13 at top and a shorter D21 5 speed below. The D21's 71C is around 30" Never heard of anyone fitting this 71C into the space of a 71B before. Maybe find a longer driveshaft spline???

 

The Z series 5 speed from a 720 or second gen S110 (200SX) would be the closest to perfect. Just not as strong.

[thisismatt]

 

[paradime]

When you really want to do a swap project, it's easy to focus on the obvious, and overlook a whole host of things that need to happen to do the whole job and do it right. Highest among them are the "while the engine and trans are out" stuff. You mentioned replacing things like the timing chain, but what about the clutch, maybe need to resurface the flywheel, new pressure plate, throw out bearing, slave cylinder, flushing and replacing the fluids. Parts that may be damaged or no longer working, like the MAF, igniter chip, IACV, throttle position sending unit, or the ECU. I don't think I've ever heard of a engine swap that didn't have one or more of these parts failing. All of that adds up, but then there's all the hoses, fuel system upgrades, cooling upgrades, intake and exhaust mods, countless little odds and ends that pile up. Unless you are a seriously skilled welder, I wouldn't recommend doing the drive shaft yourself. that cost $

 

It's kind of cliche, but the rule of thumb is to take your best estimate and double it. That's not to say you can't do it on the cheap, but trust me when I say, the vision you have for how this swap is going to go is fantasy. It's not until you start digging into it that reality catches up. Money is the lubricant of life, and if you're trying to get something done it's best to have a well oiled machine.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I definitely plan on the clutch set, flywheel and various misc small things that will be a few/several hundred dollars. Not to mention the cooling and electric items. I’m really hoping to source the parts a little at a time and change things on the engine while it’s on a stand prior to doing the swap. I know I still have more to read and learn. This will be a project over several months to a year. I appreciate any and all feedback. I have done a jdm engine swap on an AE86 I had and replaced items prior to the install as well. That was a little more plug and play than this swap will be, but even with that I have seen where items can add up that you don’t think about. Thanks!

[paradime]

Awesome! You have your head pointed in the right direction. Reading and learning as much as you can is the best investment you can make.

 

Flame on Mr. Blaze.

 

??

[datzenmike]

If the S13 clutch is tired and ready to be replaced you can swap a 240mm D21truck flywheel and clutch on. Nice up-grade from the 225mm. It will even take the 280zx or even the 300zx clutch now. This is known as the White Bunny swap....

 

 

[bottomwatcher]

Lots of good info here, after doing this swap in my 720 and 20/20 hindsight I would focus on the completeness of the package for sale. A complete uncut wiring harness with all of the sensors intact is worth it's weight in gold. Every empty plug on the harness means you are going to have to track down crap from a nearly 30 year old car with an engine that was offered with that intake manifold for only 2 years. Don't bother hooking this up to a b series trans, they don't last under naps z power. I went with the truck ka24e and 240sx intake route. Works great but tracking down all the stuff for 89-90 model year was a pain in the ass. The newer you go the more common and available the parts are. If you have the room buying a parts truck may be the way to go. Good luck. 

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, bottomwatcher said:

 Don't bother hooking this up to a b series trans, they don't last under naps z power.

 

Surely you mean KA power. The NAPS Z series engines weren't much on power and they did come with 71B transmissions. Hell the 280zx used them.

[bottomwatcher]

Nope I mean naps z power! I went through 4 of them behind the naps z. I did the c swap and no more issues. 10 plus years after the c swap dropped in the ka and it is still rolling fine. Just picked up another c from a hardbody as a spare. Those 4 trans failures have made me nervous for life. 

[datzenmike]

Experience will tend to do this. The C is about 2X stronger. Your replacement transmissions were probably old and already well worn. They won't last forever without oil changes every 30K but generally they are good for just over 150 hp.

[mikecaleb]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:37 PM, datzenmike said:

If the S13 clutch is tired and ready to be replaced you can swap a 240mm D21truck flywheel and clutch on. Nice up-grade from the 225mm. It will even take the 280zx or even the 300zx clutch now. This is known as the White Bunny swap....

 

 

Hey mike Ive never heard of this mod before but that's pretty cool. what years 300zx/280zx clutch kit would you need to use with the 87-93 flywheel?

[]2eDeYe]

Just get a flywheel and clutch for a 95 hardbody. This is the KA 240mm HD clutch setup. 

It should be the 9 bolt pressure plate to flywheel pattern, not the 6 bolt (weak). 

 

That is all the white bunny stuff is when you look at the parts breakdown. 

[datzenmike]

As Steve says. the D21 is heavy duty enough.

 

However...

'82/'83 280zx turbo and '84-'86 300zx non turbo pressure plate...... 30210-P9510 or 30210-9500

'84-'86 300zx turbo pressure plate...................................................... 30210- P9600 

 

280zx turbo and 300zx turbo both use the 30100-P9510 clutch disc.

 

 

I don't know if the D21 release collar lenghs will work with these PP and clutches so if in doubt buy the 280 or 300zx ones for the clutch you choose.

[mikecaleb]

Ah okay i gotcha. appreciate it.