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Crashtd420

Ignition coil mounting?

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So recently I'm experiencing a miss fire, which I'm  dealing with in my build thread.... 

My question here is mounting orientation of the ignition coil.... my 521 has the mounting location horizontally on the fender, so that's where I put the new one.... 

Well I was gonna try a different coil and didn't have my ohm meter handy so I looked it up , under the specifications I found the ohms and then saw that it said to mount vertically....

So I looked up the pertronix one I am using and it also said mount vertically...

Of course the internet is full of bullshit, so you cant get a clear answer. 

So does it matter horizontal vs vertical mounting?

I also read oil filled needs to be vertical,  but epoxy filled can mount any direction... but even the epoxy filled coils directions say mount vertically...

So what's true?

What's in a factory coil that's different from the aftermarket that allows them to be mounted horizontally?

 

 

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Vertically mounted is best for oil filled coils, the mineral oil inside keeps more coil covered and cooler in that position.

 

The epoxy filled ones can be mounted wherever, but they get pretty hot and I dont reconneded to run those on daily drivers.

 

Horizontal mount was used most likely to keep the terminals away from things.

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I plan to relocate mine tonight, I'm just curious if this is a common mistake that is being made and burning up coils on people prematurely....

And even the epoxy ones were saying mount vertically.... 

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Trust the factory. Nissan mounted the stock coil horizontal. Mine may even be tipped slightly down hill.  Trust the stock equipment. After market doesn't have 40 years of trouble free service.  At least place away from vibration, never on the engine, and in the open where the fan can circulate air around it.

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1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Trust the factory. Nissan mounted the stock coil horizontal. Mine may even be tipped slightly down hill.  Trust the stock equipment. After market doesn't have 40 years of trouble free service.  At least place away from vibration, never on the engine, and in the open where the fan can circulate air around it.

 

This is kind of my point to the question...  factory coil vs the aftermarket.... 

I get the factory would be best suited ,

but most will grab what's available at the parts store.... what's inside that allows a factory coil to be mounted horizontal?

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No idea, they just work. Removing one to put an aftermarket one on just because it's painted red and called a 'flame thrower' isn't advised. I've never had a factory coil fail to spark but I did have one with a small crack on the tower that would spark to the negative terminal on my '76. It was very seldom and hard to find. I replaced with one from a 720 I had laying around. I would never buy a coil, I would search the junk yards first. I have spares of just about everything, I never pass up or chuck spare parts. No one should who owns a vintage car.

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No problems with coils being horizontal, guarantee those engineers knew more than us.

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Or it never mattered how they were mounted and after market are simply inferior.

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Based on my experience on having and driving Datsuns since 1972, do not throw the old coil away.

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Well here's my problem, never had the original,  the junk yard near me scrap everything pre 1990.... the only ones I can get are aftermarket......

I think you guys are missing the point.. I'm not trying to start a debate about the factory coil... I get they are better, but i don't have one.....

This is more about mounting an aftermarket one properly... 

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Look at MG for an example of how to mount a coil.  They've mounted them vertical, upside down, and horizontal on top of the hot generator.  It really doesn't matter, as none of those million cars produced ever had consistent coil failures.  If the coil was made properly, it shouldn't matter how its mounted,  There shouldn't be any air in the coil, so the windings will always be cooled by oil or epoxy at all times, in any position.  If you can shake the coil and hear oil moving, get rid of it.  Its defective or it had leaked at some time.  

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17 minutes ago, distributorguy said:

  If the coil was made properly, it shouldn't matter how its mounted,  There shouldn't be any air in the coil, so the windings will always be cooled by oil or epoxy at all times, in any position.  If you can shake the coil and hear oil moving, get rid of it.  Its defective or it had leaked at some time.  

 

This sounds like the key info.... maybe the vertical mounting is an attempt correct poor quality..... 

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"Look at MG for an example of how to mount a coil."

I thought British card used Lucas electrical stuff, and have heard some British car owners refer to "Lucas" as the prince of darkness.

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Everthing I read from all the manufacturer says mount vertically, and then everyone says doesnt really matter.. I must matter to some degree...

I'm trying an experiment with mine, it is an oil filled pertronix,  I mounted it vertically instead of horizontally... it's the same one that was miss firing the other day.... I may have already damaged it but I'll see if it makes a difference... 

Personally I'm planning to mount my coils vertically from now on whether it matters or not.... I'll report results...

 

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My 620 and my 710 are horizontal.

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Yes but don't you have factory coils...

 

I don't know what the difference is but something has to be....

 

This is why is questioned it.... for everyone that says it doesnt matter there is someone that says it does.....

No real answer....

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Coil Talk

 

Just my own personal common sense is oil filled is holding a liquid with a seal, vertical makes sense (it is mineral oil, naturally non-conductive).

 

Epoxy is fully filled internally so no leaks and you are free to mount anywhere you like that has some air flow around it to cool.

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I haven't seen oil filled coils fail either vertical or horizontal, But I have seen them fail when subjected to lots of unnecessary vibration.

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2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

 

I don't know what the difference is but something has to be....

 

 

This is a false assumption.  The fact that many factory coils were mounted upside down and failures are not typical tells you the truth.  It doesn't matter, unless there was a quality control problem.  If you buy a piece of crap coil, it may leak - but it shouldn't.  All "can" coils are made the same, but with different filler for cooling.  All should be 100% sealed and not leak.  Buy a China cheapy like the Pertronix and it may be more prone to fail and leak than some others.  

 

No real answer?  This is what I do for a living.  Automotive ignition systems.  Mount it however you want.  IT DOES NOT MATTER.

Edited by distributorguy
added info
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55 minutes ago, distributorguy said:

 

This is a false assumption.  The fact that many factory coils were mounted upside down and failures are not typical tells you the truth.  It doesn't matter, unless there was a quality control problem.  If you buy a piece of crap coil, it may leak - but it shouldn't.  All "can" coils are made the same, but with different filler for cooling.  All should be 100% sealed and not leak.  Buy a China cheapy like the Pertronix and it may be more prone to fail and leak than some others.  

 

No real answer?  This is what I do for a living.  Automotive ignition systems.  Mount it however you want.  IT DOES NOT MATTER.

 

And to refer back to my self about "there has to be a difference"... quality may be that difference,  and vertical mounting is suggested to prevent damage due to poor manufacturing.....

I believe you know what your talking about, I know you can do more with a point distributor then anyone I've come across ...

And I guess IT DOESNT MATTER is a real enough answer.....

So can you recommend a certain brand coil that isn't crap? 

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Old OEM coils are the best, as everyone has already said.  Aftermarket 3 Ohms coils - I sell the Bosch Blue form Brazil.  1.5 Ohms coils - I hunt down original made in Germany Red coils - at any cost.  Beyond that, you're taking a chance.  I've seen failures in every other brand.  I've seen Bosch failures as well, but its far more rare.  Most coil failures are caused by stressing them out with high resistance plug wires.  Keep your plug wires under 2000 Ohms each and the coil won't overheat causing failure.  Run non-resistor spark plugs with resistive  plug wires.    

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Thanks for the info....  I'll see what I can find... 

I'll check my wires tonight  too....

 

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Is this the correct red bosch coil you are referring to?

 

Screenshot_20180718-085245_Chrome.jpg

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Heading back to my thread.....

Thanks for the opinions and info....

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That's an orange label coil.  Not a reed coil made in Germany.  Where is it made?  China?  Mexico?

 

Read through this thread and scroll down to find a legit photo of the Bosch Red made in Germany.  

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/131590-has-anyone-ordered-and-received-a-new-2-ohm-black-coil/

 

 

 

 

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