510 strut top fail......oh no

[Rays74]

So while driving I hear a loud thud and then notice my hood is sitting a bit tweaked.... popped it open and bam lookee what I see....ugh.

Just got done installing new strut cartridges and bushings all around, now this happens :(

The struts are stock besides 280z inserts.....what are my replacement choices? I did the Ratsun search but nothing definite showed up.

Just read that 240sx top mounts are a match to the 510's bolt pattern, will the 510/ Z car strut slip into it? That would be an easy fix if so! 

Thanks all :)

 

 

[datzenmike]

Is the top hat.... on top?

[Rays74]

Is the top hat.... on top?

Not sure what you mean Mike, it's assembled as stock.....just now the rubber insulator has given up and allowed the strut, bearing and associated bits to break through :( Never seen one do this??

[datzenmike]

Never seen this.

[Rays74]

Yeah the rubber insulator just got weak enough to let everything below it bust up right through........ it is weird.

From what I can gather (searching these forums and interwebs ;) )  the later 280ZX might be a drop in for replacement upper strut mount?  It does have ZX strut inserts but stock struts otherwise (no low).

 

-- Ray

[datzenmike]

I imagine the 510 top hats were used with 510 coil spring? The top hat is the plate the top of the coil spring sits against. It has the three studs and a hole for the strut and nut to go through. How the hell did all that get through???

 

 

 

Undersides...

................................ 280zx................................................................................................510.........................................................

 

[INDY510]

If you look closely you can see the center is isolated in a ring of rubber .. like a motor mount

 

I can see how it could fail, but I've never heard of it ... everything below in red is rubber

 

[datzenmike]

All this time I thought it was metal.

[Rays74]

Shocked me to see it lemme tell ya...lol. Yeah the rubber center just gave up and looks like the pass side won't be far behind as the rubber has a huge crack around the majority of the center.

Your pic Mike shows the bearing mount (top hat) for both cars....the bearing saddle and the bolt circle look pretty similar and I have hope the ZX mount will just drop onto the 510 strut.

In hind sight the upper bearing on both sides has not been turning smoothly (when it was in my hand 2 weeks ago and I regreased it felt  smooth but under the weight of the car it was notchy) and I had wanted to replace the upper bearings and mounts but was not having any luck finding new replacements.

I'll pull it apart this week and try and match up something at the parts house :)

[datzenmike]

 

 

 

Undersides...

................................ 280zx................................................................................................510.........................................................

 

 

If you look the ZX top hat has been trimmed to reduce the diameter so it can fit the 510 strut tower.

[edekalil]

First time I've seen that.

[edekalil]

Yeah the rubber insulator just got weak enough to let everything below it bust up right through........ it is weird.

From what I can gather (searching these forums and interwebs ;) ) the later 280ZX might be a drop in for replacement upper strut mount? It does have ZX strut inserts but stock struts otherwise (no low).

 

-- Ray

So are you saying you put 280zx strut inserts in a stock strut ( not cut), so your car is not lowered?

[]2eDeYe]

I've blown out the rubbers on a celica. They don't poke through on failure though, didn't realize they were broken until it was put on a lift and the front tires stayed on the ground. :lol: 

 

 

You haven't been jumping this thing up and down any river dikes have you? 

[q-tip]

River dykes, irrigation ditches, parking lot landscaping, it all has the same effect......and it's all fun.

[metalmonkey47]

I've seen that happen before, but not on a Datsun. That's just crazy.

[Jesse C.]

I have seen the tower housing, the sheet metal that holds the the strut, fail. but never the rubber mount. 

 

Maybe it is time to step up to some camber plates. 

 

 

[Trophy24]

I think this vey thing was mentioned by a certain race car driver at the Canby dinner this year.

[datzenmike]

Can't be very common.

[Rays74]

The only theory that makes any sense is that the bearing may have been binding bad enough to "twist fatigue" the rubber insulator over time. This wagon is a daily so it is never still for long in our house.....lol.

[Ranman72]

this was a problem for the brock racing enterprise rally car it was good for street but not rally racing 

eventually the rubber wears out after all they are over 40 years old 

although i have never seen one broken I have heard the stories 

you could go with camber plates with top hat bearings or just find a used one and go with it 

[Draker]

I think this vey thing was mentioned by a certain race car driver at the Canby dinner this year.

 

Yep, you're right. The fix it to cut a hole in the hood.

[Rays74]

So I finally had time to dig into this problem further and as I suspected the rubber insulator had worked itself into powder allowing the metal center cup to push up and out.

I had looked locally at different solutions (since I didnt want to use old parts) but finally settled on these from Zcar     https://zcardepot.com/all-products/suspension/front-suspension/front-upper-strut-mount-insulator-280zx-510 .

The pics tell the story of course. Now with all the bushings, struts and now these insulators replaced the wagon feels like a new car (well better at least....haha).

I hadn't realized the car had been leaning towards the driver side caused by that strut bearing being sucked up into that failing rubber insulator.......all good now ?

-- Ray

[Rays74]

On 7/3/2018 at 6:04 AM, edekalil said:

So are you saying you put 280zx strut inserts in a stock strut ( not cut), so your car is not lowered?

Correct..... I followed the advise given by many Ratsun folk and used ZX inserts along with approx 2in of spacer in the stock tubes to make up the difference. I wanted to stay near stock ride heights so no need to swap out the strut tubes. Works great 

[edekalil]

On 7/25/2018 at 12:00 PM, Rays74 said:

Correct..... I followed the advise given by many Ratsun folk and used ZX inserts along with approx 2in of spacer in the stock tubes to make up the difference. I wanted to stay near stock ride heights so no need to swap out the strut tubes. Works great 

So your running it at stock height not lowered. Didn't think of that ever. What advantages does it give over stock strut inserts? Also very nice Goon.

Edited July 27, 2018 by edekalil

[Draker]

I'm lowered on non cut zx struts also. I can't go lower, but there is virtually no wheel gap.