KA24DE vs SR20DET realistic price of swap

[racerx]

I think you guys scared him off.

[mccuistion]

Your first post was one of a newb.  Limited information and big wants.  Since you have done 3 SR swaps you should have a pile of parts left over to choose from.

 

On Ratsun It is, "pictures or it did not happen," please post some pictures of your SR swaps. 

 

A friend of mine purchased Orangies' 620 SR swap project and It is a mess.  Orangie did some good stuff but the mounts, steering, brakes, and a few other mods all need to be re done for safety purposes.  Robit is talking about taking the SR and installing it in his 720.  He is also thinking on parting out the 620.

 

This 620 was orange in color also.

 

Myself I have no desire to do SR swaps.  But i am looking into KA and VQ swaps for my 720 king cab.

 

Please document your swap well as with your experience this should be a clean swap.  You have already experienced many of the pit falls that can derail an average person's desire to finish the swap.

 

Have you considered a chassis swap to bring the truck up to ball joints and disc brake?

If you read my reply to you on the first page you'd see my budget along with a breakdown. id like to keep it around $8000 with a HARD cap at $10K. This includes engine, engine upgrades, swap parts, disc brakes, wheel, tires, and all the other nickel and dime items that come up to make it roadworthy.

 

As for  my first post, i wasn't asking how to do it, i was explaining what i am doing and trying to get opinions on real world experience. Just simply asking if KA swaps can be done as insanely cheap as some people claim. I got the answer i was expecting.... that anything can be done dirt cheap if you have 5 years to wait for the right deals.

 

Yes, i do have a pile of parts left from my 2 SR swaps(this will be the 3rd) but the problem is, most of those parts are the stock parts i pulled off to gain more power in my last build..... so they wont do me much good since i plan on upgrading those same parts in this build.  The only thing i might use is an Apexi D-jetro power-FC ECU for tuning. It removes the MAF for a MAP system and allows much better dyno tuning.  I would really prefer a stand alone AEM or haltech ECU but re-using my Apexi can save me about $1,000.

 

On your build, it would be cool to see you do a VQ swap, they are extremely light for a V6..... i think they're only 30lbs or so heavier than an SR20DET

 

I don't think i want to do a chassis swap.... i'm already doing Z32 discs front/rear with the swap and possibly ball joints later when i do coilovers so that should modernize a lot of the chassis components. 

 

My plan for suspension and braking is just to get to a good safe level. i don't ever plan on tracking or doing fast canyon carving with the truck, just sunshine cruising and the occasional spirited pull. 

 

 

 

Lastly, sorry for the slow reply. i sell wholesale fireworks and this time of year is CRAZY for me. it might be slow but i will get back to you. Along with that, i'm happy to post pictures of my previous cars but it will also be after the 4th due to lack of time. 

[hobospyder]

Shit I can use some spare stock Sr parts

[mccuistion]

And so What a your budget?

Go read post #15 on page 1. 

 

I think you guys scared him off.

It'll take a lot more than 2 pages of questions and comments to scare me off haha..... This forum is a WEALTH of information and i am extremely grateful to be able to access it.

[nl320what]

If you read my reply to you on the first page you'd see my budget along with a breakdown. id like to keep it around $8000 with a HARD cap at $10K. This includes engine, engine upgrades, swap parts, disc brakes, wheel, tires, and all the other nickel and dime items that come up to make it roadworthy.

 

As for  my first post, i wasn't asking how to do it, i was explaining what i am doing and trying to get opinions on real world experience. Just simply asking if KA swaps can be done as insanely cheap as some people claim. I got the answer i was expecting.... that anything can be done dirt cheap if you have 5 years to wait for the right deals.

 

Yes, i do have a pile of parts left from my 2 SR swaps(this will be the 3rd) but the problem is, most of those parts are the stock parts i pulled off to gain more power in my last build..... so they wont do me much good since i plan on upgrading those same parts in this build.  The only thing i might use is an Apexi D-jetro power-FC piggyback ECU for tuning. It removes the MAF for a MAP system and allows much better dyno tuning.  I would really prefer a full stand alone ECU but re-using my piggyback can save me about $1,000.

 

On your build, it would be cool to see you do a VQ swap, they are extremely light for a V6..... i think they're only 30lbs or so heavier than an SR20DET

 

I don't think i want to do a chassis swap.... i'm already doing Z32 discs front/rear with the swap and possibly ball joints later when i do coilovers so that should modernize a lot of the chassis components. 

 

My plan for suspension and braking is just to get to a good safe level. i don't ever plan on tracking or doing fast canyon carving with the truck, just sunshine cruising and the occasional spirited pull. 

 

 

 

Lastly, sorry for the slow reply. i sell wholesale fireworks and this time of year is CRAZY for me. it might be slow but i will get back to you. Along with that, i'm happy to post pictures of my previous cars but it will also be after the 4th due to lack of time. 

 

KA is a plentiful motor and was already used in the Datsun trucks, which mostly have interchangeable parts like a frickin Lego set $2000 or less and you have a complete parts truck, labor price not included.

 

SR20DE could vary depending on the deals you get and electrical wiring you do on your own and fab work $4500 I would do it.

 

Here is a 240SX SR20DET swap project that needs a tune for a deal: https://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/d/240sx-sr20/6621710294.html

[mccuistion]

I've actually been looking at this for a possible SR20 source.....  https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/project-1990-nissan-240sx/6584483224.html

 

If i purchased this i would also get an AEM standalone ecu to go with it. The only problem is i would need receipts and proof that it is what he claims. It's really easy for someone to say an engine has a built bottom end and be total BS.

 

I have a gut feeling this engine got the piss beat out of it and might not be worth the trouble since i can't hear it run before buying.  i'm definitely on the fence... it is a great value but something inside tells me to steer clear.

[racerx]

Go read post #15 on page 1.

 

It'll take a lot more than 2 pages of questions and comments to scare me off haha..... This forum is a WEALTH of information and i am extremely grateful to be able to access it.

...good attitude, minimize wasting money and time. Ask tons of questions, go on line and or YouTube and see ka and/or sr tranplant.

[2wheel-lee]

I don't think i want to do a chassis swap.... i'm already doing Z32 discs front/rear with the swap and possibly ball joints later when i do coilovers so that should modernize a lot of the chassis components. 

 

 

If you're going to eventually go with a ball joint front end, you should do that from the start with your disc brake conversion. The knuckles (caliper mounts) and discs are completely different. Any money spent on anything with those kingpins is a waste, if you're going to later convert.  

[paradime]

Hey mccuistion, That looks like a very promising bang for the buck, but Iike you said, ask for invoices for the internal parts and talk to who built it. Either that or a tare down to be sure. I've seen some seriously shlock work, and if it's seen two failures to launch, I'd be careful. The guy selling made the mistake of telling he's under pressure to sell, offer $2.500 and lean on him. He'll come down.

 

if you've swapped 2 SRs, obviously you know what you're doing, and you surely know the 2.0L lag that come's with them. I've been fine tuning an SR swapped auto cross 510 for 8 years and getting a very reliable 330 bhp out of it. That being said, I will admit the SR leaves me wishing for more low end torque. If the Truck is purely a fun vehicle I'll end here, but if you're considering "using" it for it's intended purpose, I would at least consider a bit less HP for a bunch more torque might be a worthy trade off. 

 

As for your budget, I think you could do either quite well with $8-10K, but as you know there are a thousand trade offs and choices you'll need to make along the way. In short, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Generally speaking the more patient you are the more you can save, but it sounds as much as a financial budget, your time budget may be even more important. Again from experience, a baby is a full on need machine, and if it's your first there's no way to anticipate what that really means. A build can be the thing that keeps you sane though.

 

What makes the SR such a great platform in the States is most of them we get here are low mileage drop in ready. You can import the same low mile KA from Japan for $650 http://jdmofsandiego.com/product/altima-1993-2001-nissan-altima-2-4l-motor-jdm-ka24de-engine-xe-se/So it's worth considering as an equal when they're getting $2,700 for a red top s13 these days. 

 

Just a few thoughts, may the wind be at your back,

 

Ron.

[nl320what]

Here is an RB20DET with auto Trans for $1100: https://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/d/nissan-rb20det-rwd-auto-low/6615924133.html

 

Its an idea and a bit more exotic going RB, but its sexy and cheap!

[mccuistion]

Hey mccuistion, That looks like a very promising bang for the buck, but Iike you said, ask for invoices for the internal parts and talk to who built it. Either that or a tare down to be sure. I've seen some seriously shlock work, and if it's seen two failures to launch, I'd be careful. The guy selling made the mistake of telling he's under pressure to sell, offer $2.500 and lean on him. He'll come down.

 

if you've swapped 2 SRs, obviously you know what you're doing, and you surely know the 2.0L lag that come's with them. I've been fine tuning an SR swapped auto cross 510 for 8 years and getting a very reliable 330 bhp out of it. That being said, I will admit the SR leaves me wishing for more low end torque. If the Truck is purely a fun vehicle I'll end here, but if you're considering "using" it for it's intended purpose, I would at least consider a bit less HP for a bunch more torque might be a worthy trade off. 

 

As for your budget, I think you could do either quite well with $8-10K, but as you know there are a thousand trade offs and choices you'll need to make along the way. In short, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Generally speaking the more patient you are the more you can save, but it sounds as much as a financial budget, your time budget may be even more important. Again from experience, a baby is a full on need machine, and if it's your first there's no way to anticipate what that really means. A build can be the thing that keeps you sane though.

 

What makes the SR such a great platform in the States is most of them we get here are low mileage drop in ready. You can import the same low mile KA from Japan for $650 http://jdmofsandiego.com/product/altima-1993-2001-nissan-altima-2-4l-motor-jdm-ka24de-engine-xe-se/So it's worth considering as an equal when they're getting $2,700 for a red top s13 these days. 

 

Just a few thoughts, may the wind be at your back,

 

Ron.

Thanks Ron, i'm on the same page as you, on one hand it could be a killer value and hes in a bind to sell so i could come in with a low offer..... but on the other hand the ad just throws up a lot of red flags. When a seller says the car could be a good "drift slut" you know the drivetrain hasn't had an easy life haha.

 

As for the turbo lag/size, that is something i'm still debating. On my last build i had a T3 Garrett GT3076R and while it had plenty of ceiling(and was a rocketship) it didn't turn on until about 3900rpm.  That is why i'm aiming for a little less overall power on this build and possibly do a GT2871R to help slide the powerband to the left a bit since i want an easy street toy.

 

That $650 KA makes things interesting.... at that price i could build the bottom end and get to a reliable KA-T for the same budget. I think my meeting with Redeye(steve) will really help me make a decision. I'm not well versed in KA's at all and look forward to hearing some first hand experience. 

 

 

 

nl320what, an RB20 would definitely be cool but wouldn't that be into firewall cutting territory? with it being a straight 6? i'm intrigued but i was hoping to leave the firewall uncut.

[mccuistion]

If you're going to eventually go with a ball joint front end, you should do that from the start with your disc brake conversion. The knuckles (caliper mounts) and discs are completely different. Any money spent on anything with those kingpins is a waste, if you're going to later convert.  

I wondered about this. I was hoping a few things would carry over but if not i may jump straight to ball joints. Can i still do Z32 calipers with ball joints? I need to do more research on this. I did find a full D21 2wd front end for $130 though.... "spindles, rotors, calipers, hubs, steering arms, but no backing plate or caliper brackets" is what the ad says. That might be worth looking into?

[racerx]

Rb is way longer than L series. I would stick with ka or sr motor, do homework on these, the cost, resources needed, etc.

[5t341tH]

I am also "in process" of a SR swap into my 620. I've bought the SR and a few things already but I have yet to proceed with the swap since I am lazy

costs so far:

blacktop sr - 2700

s15 t28 - 680

sr mounts - 130

elbow - 90

turbo lines - 110

s14 water neck - 70

water pump - 60

bov - 80

scg1 - 300

 

and I haven't even started yet. I'm sure I have to spend another 2000 to finish

[nl320what]

KA-T would be top choice and have lots of fun with low end grunt, save some money there too.

 

The weight is what 400lbs, which is heavy boat anchor, 5.3ci LS V8 is what 450lbs?

 

Fab motor mounts low and keep truck low.

 

I did the drift, track, and street trucks..... built up L16, L18, L20B cammed motors, also did a 5.0HO V8 swapped 620, 383ci stroker Chevy LUV, 283ci Corvette swapped LUV, and now the Yoda NL320 4by.

 

Even the L series 4cyl is fun pumped up on a budget.

[Moist Lightning]

I wondered about this. I was hoping a few things would carry over but if not i may jump straight to ball joints. Can i still do Z32 calipers with ball joints? I need to do more research on this. I did find a full D21 2wd front end for $130 though.... "spindles, rotors, calipers, hubs, steering arms, but no backing plate or caliper brackets" is what the ad says. That might be worth looking into?

 

Not sure why you decided z32. if you do ball joint swap and d21 drop spindles at the same time and use the the d21 awd front brakes, they will bolt right up no adapter needed.  will be better steering geometry if you wanted to go lower too.

[mccuistion]

KA-T would be top choice and have lots of fun with low end grunt, save some money there too.

 

The weight is what 400lbs, which is heavy boat anchor, 5.3ci LS V8 is what 450lbs?

 

Fab motor mounts low and keep truck low.

 

I did the drift, track, and street trucks..... built up L16, L18, L20B cammed motors, also did a 5.0HO V8 swapped 620, 383ci stroker Chevy LUV, 283ci Corvette swapped LUV, and now the Yoda NL320 4by.

 

Even the L series 4cyl is fun pumped up on a budget.

Wow.... you really have experienced a little bit of everything! Was the 5.0 620 a pig with handling? That is one of my worries with the KA-T, its a boat anchor compared to SR and might kill handling characteristics. Not that ill be tracking or anything but still something to consider. But if you say the KA-T is your top choice it must not be that big of an issue. 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why you decided z32. if you do ball joint swap and d21 drop spindles at the same time and use the the d21 awd front brakes, they will bolt right up no adapter needed.  will be better steering geometry if you wanted to go lower too.

The problem is i haven't decided anything yet, i'm still researching as much as possible, im still very new to the 620 platform.  my original plan was to stay kingpin and use beebani's brackets to go Z32 brakes. I like the Z32 4 piston option(and their looks :blush:) over the 2 piston D21/trooper brakes, But if i do go balljoint then there's no reason not to use the D21 brakes.

[nl320what]

It was slightly affected with some droop, the 5.0 was about 60lbs heavier than the L20B I had in it.

 

They already had all the weight was low as it had aluminum heads/intake/carb.

 

To be honest after doing alot of swaps and what it took as far as Money, Time, and Result..... I had the most fun with dumping a few upgrades into my L16 as it loved RPM and no vibrations from it, just loved to scream.

 

The motor is important to create the Fun you want, decide which suits you best, then get it road worthy asap so it doesnt sit.

[]2eDeYe]

Wow.... you really have experienced a little bit of everything! Was the 5.0 620 a pig with handling? That is one of my worries with the KA-T, its a boat anchor compared to SR and might kill handling characteristics. 

 

 

The biggest issue with 620 handling is the terrible control arm angles that don't get any better when you lower them. :lol: 

[datzenmike]

On 6/27/2018 at 10:14 AM, mccuistion said:

  That is one of my worries with the KA-T, its a boat anchor compared to SR and might kill handling characteristics. Not that ill be tracking or anything but still something to consider. But if you say the KA-T is your top choice it must not be that big of an issue.

 

 

 

Manifolds, accessories, flywheel

L16.............. 255

L18.............. 265

L20B........... 275

KA24E........ 380 Roughly 100 pounds more than an L20B, like having a 13 year old in the passenger seat.

VG30.......... under 400

SR20DET.... 330

 

 

[mccuistion]

Wow, thanks for the stats mike..... I have to say I'm surprised at how light the ka24 is compared to the sr20 with it being iron block.... I'm guessing the ka24de is a bit heavier than the ka24e though? Still it isnt a huge difference and may be worth me doing the ka24det to save some cash and have the torque of the 2.4L since it isn't a huge weight difference vs the sr20. I'm still very torn on my decision but the ka24det is looking promising at this point. I'd still like to learn a bit about the LFX V6 option before I pull the trigger on anything though. 

[paradime]

Mccuistion, Don't forget that 330 lbs is with all the turbo hardware.

Stats with all the AC, alternator, intake and exhaust hardware, but without transmission
CA18ET 260 lbs
QR25DE 267 lbs
CA18DET 282 lbs
SR20DE 306 lbs
SR20DET 328 lbs
KA24DE 372 lbs 

 

 

[Charlie69]

The main reason for the chassis swap for me was the ball joint suspension.  Also the towers on the frame for the upper control arms are are slanted instead of sqare to the frame rail.  The pitman arm and idler arm on the 720 chassis is outside the frame rail.

 

I went with a 1980 720 chassis on my 66 520 because I had it.  I still upgraded the non vented rotor disc brakes to 1985 720 vented rotor and the larger 85 calipers.  I had installed the Belltech 2" drop spindles which allowed for the vented rotor brake upgrade.

 

The D21 chassis swap is more work on a 520 & 521.

 

It sounds from reading your posts that you will do well with either swap and this truck will not end up hacked up and in a crusher like so many builds that get started here.

[Icehouse]

12 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

 

Manifolds, accessories, flywheel

L16.............. 255

L18.............. 265

L20B........... 275

KA24E........ 380 Roughly 100 pounds more than an L20B, like having a 13 year old in the passenger seat.

VG30.......... under 400

SR20DET.... 330

 

 

 

 

When I weighted the L18 vs. the SR20DE they were less then 30lbs different and the L was missing some parts like the carbs and had the small stock alternator which everyone upgrades and stock starter.  

 

So reslly the L series really isn’t much lighter if at all.  Check out the weight thread I started.  The amazing part to me is a VQ is only 100 lbs heavier then a L18!!!

 

 

[]2eDeYe]

2 hours ago, Icehouse said:

 

 

When I weighted the L18 vs. the SR20DE they were less then 30lbs different and the L was missing some parts like the carbs and had the small stock alternator which everyone upgrades and stock starter.  

 

So reslly the L series really isn’t much lighter if at all.  Check out the weight thread I started.  The amazing part to me is a VQ is only 100 lbs heavier then a L18!!!

 

 

 

I need to come pick that up. :)