Alignment issues on 510

[Draker]

After lowing my 510 and getting the first alignment done a few years back, I found the thrust angle was off, likely due to when the car was hit in the driver side rear quarter a long time ago.

 

I figured I could correct this with a set of Byron's brackets which would allow adjustment of the rear toe. Well, I just got back from the alignment shop and they said there is still not enough adjustment on the drivers side rear tie to get the wheel straight. In fact, it's slightly worse.

 

I'm trying to see what my options are to fix it.

 

Alignment pre rear crossmember modification

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alignment today post adjustable crossmember

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Draker]

I noticed they didn't set the caster.. probably didn't know it was adjustable.. ah well. I'll be going back in again soon.

 

 

So I am wondering, did the rear crossmember get pushed forward, or do I have a bent rear LCA perhaps? If the crossmember did get pushed forward, what options do I have to fix this? I thought the brackets would allow for enough adjustment. I'm kind of disappointed I wasted my time with it. I may look to see if I can squeeze out another MM of adjustment there.. but I doubt it.

[Draker]

Any points I can measure on the LCA to see if its slightly tweaked? Or on the body I guess. I have another 510 in the garage I can pull measurements from. 

[Icehouse]

I think your control arm is bent.  

 

Dude how does your car drive with such little caster?  Seems scary.  

[Draker]

I think your control arm is bent.  

 

Dude how does your car drive with such little caster?  Seems scary.  

 

 

I am wondering if there are any measurements to verify it's bent, or do I just toss another control arm on there and have then check it again? I would hate to just keep paying for bad alignments, lol. 

 

 

 

 

Regarding caster, it's not good. It darts around at highway speeds a bit, but not the worst. I told them to adjust it, and I swear the previous alignment set it at 1.5, maybe I just told them to set it there, and they didn't.. again. 

 

I think they didn't realize it the camber plate is slotted to adjust, so they didn't set it. I will have another alignment soon after I figure out this rear end issue. I might even ditch the springs and install some coilovers back there.

[docbainey]

I'd get under the car and look at the slots in the cross member to see if all the adjustment is used up, The right side is still toed out, should be toed in, negative toe is toe out. Search the realm, Dime Dave explains it well.

[toylet]

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[Draker]

I think your rear toe is causing it to be unstable at highway speeds. Looks like the guy didn't know what he was doing. I would be more worried about the +.59 left rear toe. That will eat tires up fast and cause wild rear steer at faster speeds. The brackets should be adjustable to get it closer to spec. Also coil overs will not help your alignment.

I should note I've ran an alignment machine for a living. My questions are about the adjustment in the brackets I just installed.

 

The toe on the right wheel is to reduce the total toe which is what causes tire wear. The issue is the thrust angle is off. Rear total toe is a bit high.. but would me much worse for tire wear it right wheel was pulled in.

[Draker]

I'd get under the car and look at the slots in the cross member to see if all the adjustment is used up, The right side is still toed out, should be toed in, negative toe is toe out. Search the realm, Dime Dave explains it well.

Its toed out to reduce total toe. It's on purpose, otherwise the rear would destroy tires until the left rear is resolved.

 

I did get under the car, there is maybe about 3mm adjustment left in the left bracket. It's possible that might get the toe closer to stock. The right has plenty of adjustment in the correct direction.

[Trophy24]

I would agree the arm is bent. I have found it hard to see this amount visually. Trust the measurement and swap it out. (And let us know how it goes)

[Draker]

I will likely do exactly this.

 

Will have to do dome work on the new part. Too rusty to just bolt on. Stay tuned!

[paradime]

Are we talking about the "control arm" (front) being bent, or the trailing arm (rear) being bent? Byron's brackets have a good 2 degrees of toe adjustment, if the arm is that bent you'd think there'd be visible deformation of the metal. After the car was hit, did you have the unibody straightened? Was the left rear wheel impacted in the accident? This might sound stupid, but did you get offset bushings?

[q-tip]

Buy a camber caster tool and set it yourself, it's not as hard as you think.

[Draker]

Are we talking about the "control arm" (front) being bent, or the trailing arm (rear) being bent? Byron's brackets have a good 2 degrees of toe adjustment, if the arm is that bent you'd think there'd be visible deformation of the metal. After the car was hit, did you have the unibody straightened? Was the left rear wheel impacted in the accident? This might sound stupid, but did you get offset bushings?

They may have 2*, but in a not useful direction. The right wheel is very much the same.

 

The car was hit, but it was not obliterated. The unibody wasn't straightened. The car was hit in the wheel area it looks like. Twice.

 

I'd be concerned in the right rear bracket was slotted in the middle, and the left was maxed to one side, but they are both nearly bottomed out. Right side is maxed to to the toe setting above. There is no more adjustment in the late direction. Lots of toe in on these brackets.

 

Offset rear control arm bushings? No, but they could be worn out, because I didn't replace them. Something else to look at.

[Draker]

Buy a camber caster tool and set it yourself, it's not as hard as you think.

I've been considering this for a while. The shitty part is no alignment rack. It means a lot of jacking it up and adjust, drop, check, repeat. But better than 150 per alignment I guess. I'll probably do this.

[paradime]

They may have 2*, but in a not useful direction. The right wheel is very much the same.

 

The car was hit, but it was not obliterated. The unibody wasn't straightened. The car was hit in the wheel area it looks like. Twice.

 

I'd be concerned in the right rear bracket was slotted in the middle, and the left was maxed to one side, but they are both nearly bottomed out. Right side is maxed to to the toe setting above. There is no more adjustment in the late direction. Lots of toe in on these brackets.

 

Offset rear control arm bushings? No, but they could be worn out, because I didn't replace them. Something else to look at.

 

Yeah, There are companies making offset (eccentric) poly trailing arm bushings that can be rotated to change camber and foe. Set the suspension and tack them in place. 

 

For instance

 

"This is the industries FIRST and ONLY offset rear trailing arm bushing set for your e36 or e46 . Includes both Left and right. These come in delrin and include new aluminum races, and a lifetime warranty!  When you severely lower your e36 or e46, the rear suspension by design ends up having tons of toe in. To compensate for that, these rear trailing arm bushings are offset to push our the control arm dialing out some toe out. How much is dialed out actually depends on how lowered the vehicle is."

[paradime]

I just changed the coil overs and camber plates on my 510 to T3 so just had the alignment done. Although our cars aren't set up exactly the same, this alignment feels pretty damn spot on. 

 

[Josh K.]

See this: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/24498-feng-shui-the-510-experiment-all-pics-are-fixed/page-23?do=findComment&comment=622730

 

Same thing happened to me.\

[Draker]

See this: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/24498-feng-shui-the-510-experiment-all-pics-are-fixed/page-23?do=findComment&comment=622730Same thing happened to me.\

Strange!

 

This looks very similar to my problem. You resolved it by moving the inner LCA pivot?

[Draker]

Here is my plan of attack:

 

Buy alignment tools.

Replace rear LCA

Measure

If still out, may do inner lca mod like Josh.

 

I do still have about 3mm toe adjustment before it's bottomed. I'll check if that's enough.. but I have a suspicion the arm is tweaked. Will post pics in a sec of why I think this could be possible.

[Josh K.]

Strange!

 

This looks very similar to my problem. You resolved it by moving the inner LCA pivot?

Yes. Cut the tube out and move it back.

[Draker]

Yes. Cut the tube out and move it back.

 

Thanks for posting that. This is very helpful! It will be a last resort, but a better option than taking it to a frame shop.

[Draker]

I don't really think the unibody is tweaked, not enough damage to the body from inside the trunk. Here are a few pics I just took.

 

 

 

Inside driver side trunk. The bottom of the trunk is not all pushed in. No real sign of damage here.

 

 

 

 

Here is the wheel tub. You can see the inside brace is pretty straight. You can see near the top where the new quarter was welded in. Nothing crushed in though.

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can see the extent of the damage. The lower part of the wheel tub is pushed in just a little bit. It seems incredibly minor, and not enough to tweak the body.

 

[Draker]

This damage is why I think maybe the control arm could be bent. Its in the right location to push the toe in. Here is a picture from the day I bought the car:

 

 

 

 

Here is a profile picture of the door:

 

[Draker]

But again... is it enough to tweak the LCA? or body? 

 

I dunno.. maybe the LCA.