1.4L race motor needs more ...

[datsunfreak]

This was a bad idea. They need the thermostat. Preferably a stock 192 (or higher) if you have an aluminum radiator. They run best around 200 degrees and that radiator will likely keep you about 1 degree above whatever the thermostat is. 

 

And after more thought on the subject, I'd bet you're giving up at least 10, maybe 15, horsepower with that set up. Fix that, get the engine hotter, it will make a noticeable difference. They run like shit at 170F. 

[TimGreen]

The modified thermostat was due to a serious cooling issue we had on our first time out with the car. Before we went to the track I flushed the engine and radiator (separately). All weekend we chased the cooling issue. On Saturday we got the temp down to 180° but come Sunday it was running 240° again. Yesterday I took the radiator to a specialist and he said it is clogged bad. He will let me know if it can be cleaned. I have a new water pump to put in when I get the radiator back, I can replace the modified thermostat also. Didn’t want to bore you all with this but as long as the thermostat issue came up I figured I should tell “the rest of the story”. This group is great - lots of good ideas, keep them coming, remember I am a Datsun neophyte.

 

If anyone is interested in joining us we will be back at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, Beloit, IL Memorial Day weekend.

Tim

[TimGreen]

https://www.facebook.com/tim.green.583671/videos/10214063652377072/

[mhub91]

I still say sell it and get someting else like a BMW 2002 or a Datsun 510.

 

Seriously, those cars have infinite potential -- if you have deep, deep pockets.

[racerx]

Can't do much w 750.00

[flatcat19]

Not running a thermostat is just begging for an overheated engine.

 

Water will never cool if it can't stop flowing.

[datzenmike]

Get anything on there but a fram oil filter. Fram are only good for a mask when spray painting your bock. They aren't fit for regular use let alone racing. Get a Wix.

 

Over heating causes....

 

Lack of rad shroud.

Soft bottom hose that collapses from pump suction.

Faulty head gasket, warped head.

Timing way too retarded.

Air getting around over or under the rad.

Splash pan missing.

Gauge is wrong.

[KoHeartsGPA]

Not running a thermostat is just begging for an overheated engine.

Water will never cool if it can't stop flowing.

Yet so many people think otherwise lol

[datzenmike]

I do.

 

All the thermostat does is prevent the engine running below a set temperature by closing. When above it's setting it's open all the time and doesn't close. If the job of the thermostat was to provide restriction to slow down the water flow then why are all thermostats the same size no matter the engine or rad size? You will get the greatest heat transfer to the outside air by having the fastest circulation of hot water.

 

I had one fail in the full open position and on a long very steep downhill the gauge went down to just below the lowest part of the run range. The rest of the time it varied by the load on the engine but stayed withing the run range lower 1/2. With a new thermostat it ran steady at about 1/2.

[datsunfreak]

The modified thermostat was due to a serious cooling issue we had on our first time out with the car.

 

But this...

 

Not running a thermostat is just begging for an overheated engine.

 

Water will never cool if it can't stop flowing.

 

 

 I have a new water pump to put in when I get the radiator back, 

 

Pics of the water pump?

 

If it's the one with the stamped steel impeller, throw it way. It will only make it overheat more on track. You need the OEM pump with the cast impeller. 

 

Bad:

 

 

 

Good: 

 

[datsunfreak]

I had one fail in the full open position and on a long very steep downhill the gauge went down to just below the lowest part of the run range. The rest of the time it varied by the load on the engine but stayed withing the run range lower 1/2. With a new thermostat it ran steady at about 1/2.

 

I know you've been around awhile and seen a lot of shit, but I do not believe your singular experience trumps years of science on the subject sir.  ^_^

[datsunfreak]

I still say sell it and get someting else like a BMW 2002 or a Datsun 510.

 

Seriously, those cars have infinite potential -- if you have deep, deep pockets.

 

These cars do not have more potential than a B310. And honestly, a 4-link rear end will outrun the funky semi-trailing arm IRS on any track. Where the 510/2002 shines is on the street. Dollar for dollar a B310 has more track potential. 

[datsunfreak]

And back to the original topic, Tim can you run down what all has been done to the suspension/brakes? Fixing some bits under there will net you faster lap times sooner than engine mods ever will...

[datzenmike]

I know you've been around awhile and seen a lot of shit, but I do not believe your singular experience trumps years of science on the subject sir.  ^_^

 

There's no 'science' on this. Who told you that? Take your thermostat out. You won't overheat from it. The thermostat sets the minimum temp an engine runs at. Once it reaches maximum open how is it slowing down the water flow in the rad?????? The water needing more time to transfer heat to the air is a myth. The larger the difference between the hot coolant and the outside air the more heat will transfer. You want the rad full of the hottest water flowing at the fastest rate.

[TimGreen]

You state that it is a 82 B210, probably not. They stopped make B210 in 1978. The significance difference is the A14 in the B210 had oval port heads and flow fairy well. The later A 14's in the the 210's had a much different head design, were H95 casting on the cylinder head located near the front under the rocker shaft. You may be able to see the casting number by removing the oil fill cap in the rocker cover shine a light in there and see what cylinder head you have??

 

H95 cylinder heads are/were shit! They have shrouded castings in the intake valve runners that severely restrict the air/fuel mixture, it was a smog head. It is possible that the car may have come across the boarder and have a different cylinder head. An H89, also oval port head, was the choice in the JDM for the A14/15 they have good flow characteristics.

 

Sound like all the bolt on's are enough, a better cylinder head and a more aggressive camshaft will diffidently help. Because of the age of the car, many thing may have been swapped in/out of the car. 4 speed cars came with 3.90 rear gear ratios and 5 speed cars had 3.7 sometimes! IF it was a flat lander car 3.54 are possible, and that would hurt your acceleration.

 

Don't get discouraged, do some investigating and see what you have to work with.

Any idea where to get a H89 head and how much I will have to pay? 

That's the kind of recommendation I was looking for.

[TimGreen]

You state that it is a 82 B210, probably not. They stopped make B210 in 1978. The significance difference is the A14 in the B210 had oval port heads and flow fairy well. The later A 14's in the the 210's had a much different head design, were H95 casting on the cylinder head located near the front under the rocker shaft. You may be able to see the casting number by removing the oil fill cap in the rocker cover shine a light in there and see what cylinder head you have??

 

H95 cylinder heads are/were shit! They have shrouded castings in the intake valve runners that severely restrict the air/fuel mixture, it was a smog head. It is possible that the car may have come across the boarder and have a different cylinder head. An H89, also oval port head, was the choice in the JDM for the A14/15 they have good flow characteristics.

 

Sound like all the bolt on's are enough, a better cylinder head and a more aggressive camshaft will diffidently help. Because of the age of the car, many thing may have been swapped in/out of the car. 4 speed cars came with 3.90 rear gear ratios and 5 speed cars had 3.7 sometimes! IF it was a flat lander car 3.54 are possible, and that would hurt your acceleration.

 

Don't get discouraged, do some investigating and see what you have to work with.

We got three diff's with the car, haven't looked at them yet - is there an easy way to figure out what ratio they are?

I suspect the one that's in the car is wrong for Blackhawk Farms Raceway

[datzenmike]

On the outer edge of the crown gear will  be some numbers. Divide the smaller into the larger...

 

37/11...... 3.363

38/11...... 3.454

37/10 ..... 3.70

35/9........ 3.90

37/9........ 4.11

 

 

You have an almost infinite rev range on the A series so use it.  Depending on the course you might find that you never get into 4th (or only briefly on a straight away) so going from 3.70 to a 4.11 would allow you to accelerate into and through 4th. (this would add gear changes) You might even give up some top speed for better acceleration if there are a lot of corners.You would also accelerate harder in all gears. On a course with higher top speeds a lower gear might be an advantage. 

[TimGreen]

I still say sell it and get someting else like a BMW 2002 or a Datsun 510.

 

Seriously, those cars have infinite potential -- if you have deep, deep pockets.

I have a friend who raced a BMW 2002 and finally ran out of money - it was incredibly expensive to repair.  He now races a Lotus Elan on a much lower budget.  I have another friend racing a B510, he paid 5x for his car than I did and still hasn't finished one race - yes its going to be faster but not inexpensive.  All I'm looking for now is a safe car my grandson can learn to race in and at least keep up with the pack. 

 

If I wanted to spend a lot of money on his racing, I would put him in my 1971 Porsche 914-6 vintage race car with ~220HP at the rear wheels - one missed shift is worth about $12,000 in engine repairs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml3j2bfqgfa58cm/914-6%20COTA.JPG?dl=0

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

This was a bad idea. They need the thermostat. Preferably a stock 192 (or higher) if you have an aluminum radiator. They run best around 200 degrees and that radiator will likely keep you about 1 degree above whatever the thermostat is. 

 

No it's not. Using the center of the thermostat as a restrictor is common practice with racing engines. You don't want a thermostat to fail and stick closed. That could be catastrophic.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Unfortunately, Ratsun is not the best place for advice on racing engines. The best thing for you is going to be a call into an engine builder. I used to work for Rebello Racing, and some of my favorite engines to build were the GT5 and DSR A series engines. Rebello is still leading the way with any racing Datsun engine and will be able to at least get you pointed in the right direction.

 

Another good source of info, and maybe even parts, is going to be Steve Epperly of Z Therapy. He used to race an A powered Sentra in GT5 and was a notorious parts hoarder. He will probably have that cylinder head you're looking for.

[racerx]

I have a friend who raced a BMW 2002 and finally ran out of money - it was incredibly expensive to repair. He now races a Lotus Elan on a much lower budget. I have another friend racing a B510, he paid 5x for his car than I did and still hasn't finished one race - yes its going to be faster but not inexpensive. All I'm looking for now is a safe car my grandson can learn to race in and at least keep up with the pack.

 

If I wanted to spend a lot of money on his racing, I would put him in my 1971 Porsche 914-6 vintage race car with ~220HP at the rear wheels - one missed shift is worth about $12,000 in engine repairs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ml3j2bfqgfa58cm/914-6%20COTA.JPG?dl=0

...whats a b510?

[TimGreen]

Car has a 3.70 differential in it. We have a 3.90 we can put in but don’t have a 4.11 (yet)

[captain720]

The 3.90 will help you wrap it up faster, which is the only way to go with A series.

[TimGreen]

...whats a b510?

picky picky --> yah just 510. 

His car came from the Canadian Under 2 Liter TransAm series.

[TimGreen]

We got three diff's with the car, haven't looked at them yet - is there an easy way to figure out what ratio they are?

I suspect the one that's in the car is wrong for Blackhawk Farms Raceway

We just looked under the oil cap on the head is107.