Draker's 1972 1200 Sedan - "The Pickle"

[njoz1200ute]

Your work is highly commendable, good job on the car, keep it going.

[datsunfreak]

3 hours ago, Draker said:

 

Oddly enough, I think the crossmember has already been modded to lower the mounts. It looks like a blind child cut and welded it back together. I've got about an inch clearance from oil pan to crossmember. But it looks like it's gonna have to go lower one way or another.

 

On my car the bottom of the oil pan was dead level with the crossmember, height-wise. Are you saying your oil pan is 1" higher than the crossmember (on the bottom), or sitting 1" above the crossmember (clearance between the two)?

Edited August 18, 2020 by datsunfreak

[datsunfreak]

FWIW, I used these from MadDat and made my own brackets to get it as low as possible.

 

http://www.maddat.com.au/fitting-kits/1200-b110/rubber-engine-mounts

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by datsunfreak

[Draker]

3 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

On my car the bottom of the oil pan was dead level with the crossmember, height-wise. Are you saying your oil pan is 1" higher than the crossmember (on the bottom), or sitting 1" above the crossmember (clearance between the two)?

 

1" clearance between the two.

 

I'll go snag some pics of the current setup.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Draker

[Draker]

3 hours ago, njoz1200ute said:

Your work is highly commendable, good job on the car, keep it going.

 

Thank you!

[Draker]

Not sure why these pics are all upside down, I guess use your imagination here. I measured the oil pan to crossmember clearance and it's at about 22mm or 7/8". The rear of the transmission I've moved up so that the ears of the shifter mount are about 5mm inside the cabin. I could go a little higher there if needed but that seemed like the appropriate height, if not a little too high.

 

crossmember mount on drivers side (left). Looks to have several cuts in it.

 

Passenger side (right) crossmember mount, a few cuts in it. Also the side is cut and bent out and away. Welds along the bottom are terrible but they are camouflaged in rust. I'm guessing this was done to lower the engine?

 

The bottom of the oil pan is sitting 3/4" above the bottom of the crossmember.

 

Measured from the back of the crossmember there is about 1.25" of clearance.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Draker

[Draker]

Either I need to:

 

1. Remove the crossmember and chop the towers shorter (more work)

2. Get shorter engine mounts (more expensive)

3. Slot the engine side mounts (????)

 

 

I'm leaning towards #3 to start with.

[Draker]

7 hours ago, njoz1200ute said:

I got shafted today by the driveshaft shop.  They informed me my u joints are non-serviceable, which was apparently my bad luck as Datsun/Nissan did this to a fair few model cars including my Datsun B120.    Need to have it all remade custom.   Or get another one from Australia which probably also has worn u-joints for around the same price, LOL

 

oh no! that sucks. Why... whyy.......!!!

[Mattndew76]

8 hours ago, njoz1200ute said:

I got shafted today by the driveshaft shop.  They informed me my u joints are non-serviceable, which was apparently my bad luck as Datsun/Nissan did this to a fair few model cars including my Datsun B120.    Need to have it all remade custom.   Or get another one from Australia which probably also has worn u-joints for around the same price, LOL

 

 

 

 The u joint yoke?

[datsunfreak]

16 hours ago, Draker said:

Either I need to:

 

1. Remove the crossmember and chop the towers shorter (more work)

2. Get shorter engine mounts (more expensive)

3. Slot the engine side mounts (????)

 

I'm leaning towards #3 to start with.

 

3 is good, but not sure it will get you what you need. Looks like you need to go down at least 3/4"?

 

FWIW, I just made my own engine brackets from steel barn door hinge plates...  😁

 

 

 

 

 

[Draker]

11 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

 

3 is good, but not sure it will get you what you need. Looks like you need to go down at least 3/4"?

 

FWIW, I just made my own engine brackets from steel barn door hinge plates...  😁

 

 

"Bolts right in" they said.. 🙂

 

So after fiddling with it a bit last night I started looking at the brackets and you're right, no way to slot any more than 1/4. Any more than that I'd need to chop the bottom to clear the starter and add some meat to the top and redrill it. I'm going to pull the engine mounts and lower it about 3/4 and measure all the angles and see if that's going to be enough. If so, then I'll make a decision about how to proceed.

[datsunfreak]

Chopping the towers on the crossmember might be best then, especially since someone has already been at them with a saw...   😃

 

I just put a 1/4" piece of plywood between the oil pan and crossmember and built off that. That got me at the right angle, but obviously your mileage may vary...

 

The good thing is, this is an auto car. Trying to do this on a manual car is an even bigger pain in the ass...  

Edited August 19, 2020 by datsunfreak

[njoz1200ute]

17 hours ago, Mattndew76 said:

 

 The u joint yoke?

 

Mine and many non usdm models have staked u joints which are non serviceable 

[Draker]

5 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

Chopping the towers on the crossmember might be best then, especially since someone has already been at them with a saw...   😃

 

I just put a 1/4" piece of plywood between the oil pan and crossmember and built off that. That got me at the right angle, but obviously your mileage may vary...

 

The good thing is, this is an auto car. Trying to do this on a manual car is an even bigger pain in the ass...  

 

Do A series have any left to right lean? Or should they be at 0°?

 

I am assuming the back to front lean should be around 3°?

 

[Draker]

I've lowered the motor so the oil pan is flush with the bottom of the crossmember, that wasn't quite enough. So I then raised the transmission a bit more. The ears protrude through the tunnel, but there is still plenty of room there. I then remeasured the angles and 1.5° and 1.4° without the need to adjust the pinion angle.

 

New angles are:

Engine       3.5°

Driveline    2.0°

Pinion        0.6°

 

Now I need to build some mounts to make this permanent. I need to figure out what the factory engine lean and tilt angles are so I can dial that in. Also I need to figure out if the motor is sitting too far forward. Since the crossmember towers/mounts where already modified, I have a hunch they are about 1/2 too far towards the front of the car. The reason I say that is because the crank pulley rests on the sway bar which prevents it from lowering any more. I'm still hashing this out. More measurements to come.

 

This is certainly turning into a bigger project than expected. I'd rather do it right way.

[Draker]

I had a minute to think about this and here's what I think I'm gonna do. I am going to start by getting the shifter positioned in the hole correctly at and at the height where I took my last measurements. I'll then adjust the engine/transmission towards the back of the car so that the drive shaft is inserted correctly. I'll just go off the previous oil seal/dirt wear marks.

 

Once I've got that, I'll remove and modify the transmission mount to get it set at that location and height. After that, I'll start working on the front crossmember and rebuild that to match the angles measured earlier. Having the transmission mount done should make mocking up the engine height much easier. Right now I've got 3 jacks moving it all around and it's a mess. Sliding forward, backward, leaning to one side.. no good.

 

Also the reason the engine is resting on the sway bar is because it's on jack stands, but I still want to leave some space between the two. That should be possible, so not too worried about that.

 

If anyone see's any flaws or efficiencies with this plan, let me know.

 

[datsunfreak]

17 hours ago, Draker said:

 

Do A series have any left to right lean? Or should they be at 0°?

 

I am assuming the back to front lean should be around 3°?

 

 

They sit straight up, no tilt.

 

3 degrees sounds right for the lean back angle.

 

FWIW, I usually pop off the valve cover and use the gasket surface to set the angles. 

[datsunfreak]

16 hours ago, Draker said:

Also I need to figure out if the motor is sitting too far forward. Since the crossmember towers/mounts where already modified, I have a hunch they are about 1/2 too far towards the front of the car.

 

Looking at your trans mount compared to mine, there's a slim chance you may be a wee bit too far forward. But I don't think it's more than half an inch at most. My shifter was centered in the floor hole...

 

Quote

The reason I say that is because the crank pulley rests on the sway bar which prevents it from lowering any more. I'm still hashing this out. More measurements to come.

 

I started to make spacers to move the sway bar down, then decided to just remove it altogether. And I am glad I did...

Edited August 20, 2020 by datsunfreak

[Draker]

53 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Looking at your trans mount compared to mine, there's a slim chance you may be a wee bit too far forward. But I don't think it's more than half an inch at most. My shifter was centered in the floor hole...

 

 

I started to make spacers to move the sway bar down, then decided to just remove it altogether. And I am glad I did...

 

 

The 1200 wiki says it should be about 2.5" from the firewall to the back of the valve cover. I'll use this as a starting point, but ultimately I think the drive shaft will be the determining factor here. My shifter is definitely not centered in the hole (front-back) and even then I was having an issue with the drive shaft being too long.. although the engine/transmission was tilted at nearly 6° or double what it should be.

[datsunfreak]

18 hours ago, Draker said:

 

 

The 1200 wiki says it should be about 2.5" from the firewall to the back of the valve cover. I'll use this as a starting point...

 

FWIW, mine was 2-2.25" from the firewall. 

[Draker]

Received new u joint today, decided to use the yoke from the b310 and installed it on my auto 1200 shaft. I’ll buy a few more and get the other driveshafts fixed up. I figure I can make 2 other good 1200 drive shafts... someday. 
 

I got a bunch of metal to mod the tranny crossmember. Probably won’t have time to work on it tomorrow. 

[Draker]

Spent the last two evenings modifying the transmission crossmember. I got it welded up tonight. I'm happy with the engine location and the shifter height. You can see my first weld was a bit hot, dialed that back a bit on the subsequent welds and they came out much better.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Draker

[Draker]

Next up, lowering the engine about .5" - .75". I need to think about this a bit before I dig in. I don't have 220 in my garage so figuring out how to go about modding the crossmember or brackets will be a bit more of a chore.

 

Who builds a garage and doesn't install proper electrical!!!!  I've got a plan in the works to fix it though.. more to come on that hopefully soon.

[Mattndew76]

220 drop cord plugged into the dryer outlet.

[wayno]

Depends on when your house was built and where I expect, mine was in the 70s when they put the washer/dryer in the garage, but I have a separate 220 circuit for my welders, the dryer is on it's own circuit.