incorrect assembly rag joint

[DIY 1985]

I suspect that the mechanic had the steering shaft rotated 90 degrees at the spline. It's the tilt type B in the factory manual. The bolt heads in the rag joint rub against the v-shaped part on the firewall side of the rubber coupler. In the illustration, I'm not seeing the flat that is milled on the splined shaft as it bolts on to the t-shaped part which bolts to the rubber coupler. I'm suspecting it is rotated because the upper and lower yolk installation is different from the fsm drawing, but there is also a chance of incorrectly swapped parts in the truck's history. Thoughts? Anyone have an image of their working set-up?

[datzenmike]

The pinch bolt can't be installed without that flat spot on the spline.

[Charlie69]

Pictures would really help understanding the problem.

[DIY 1985]

I'll share photos when I have daylight to work with.

 

However, I am wondering if my rig has a mild body-lift that I never took notice of?  Hence the hard angle at the rag joint.

[DIY 1985]

Here is a better description, with images, of what is going on.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/720minitruck/home/steering-linkage

[datzenmike]

So you have the tilt steering column?

 

Is there a small U joint at the steering box?

 

 

A body lift would just place a slightly sharper bend at the U joint on the steering box end.

 

 

I have a tilt steering column in my parts stash. I don't know how complete it is.

[DIY 1985]

It's the tilt type. There's a U-joint at the power steering box.

 

BTW, I gather that the truck has been in a slight bumper bender, but the frame and overall body look legit, small dent and bumper damage on the passenger side.

[datzenmike]

I'll try to get out after work and have a look but, yes, there is a U joint in the column about where the dash starts and then it should be straight till the steering box. Is the column properly bolted to the dash??? 

[datzenmike]

 

 

You don't have the one marked TB above.

 

You have the one above it which is the tilt steering. You can see the part marked " upper column shaft assy" has a U joint. Picture is blurred.

 

This is mine looking up from underneath. You can see the U joint near the dash with a spline and pinch bolt. Where you have a rag joint there should be another U joint. Then a rag joint at the steering box.

 

 

 

Here's the front part. It's dirty but U joint and rag joint at the steering box connection.

 

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[wayno]

That whole diagram above is of one tilt steering column assembly for a power steering type truck broken down into 3 sections, the section the steering wheel connects to, the mount tube section and the shaft that goes thru the mount tube and out thru the firewall, and the section that goes to the steering gear itself, power steering columns have 2 u-joints and one rag joint in the middle, that whole diagram is of the TB type.

The 2 photos you posted Dmike are of a tilt column without power steering, at least for a 2wd 720.

The rag joint cannot be at the power steering gear as it will hit the upper control arm on a 2wd 720 truck, I know this because I tried using a non power steering column on a power steering gear, it hit the upper control arm and it was very hard to turn that way.

I do not see anything wrong in the photo, it appears to be put together correctly.

Is that a photo of another rag joint that was used as a reference?

[DIY 1985]

You parts were sourced from a manual steering 2wd, or, either form of gear box 4wd?

[wayno]

You parts were sourced from a manual steering 2wd, or, either form of gear box 4wd?

 

What does this statement mean?

 

Do you have power steering?

[DIY 1985]

It must be a tilt, power, 4wd because the manual gear boxes rag joints aren't illustrated with the W-shaped stopper and have two pins and two bolts, instead of 4 bolts?

[DIY 1985]

I have power steering.

[Charlie69]

Here is a better description, with images, of what is going on.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/720minitruck/home/steering-linkage

These pictures look to be a 4x4 column.  The cad plated stopper looks to have been bent to get access to the bolts.

 

In your vehicle list under you avatar it does not say 4x4 so I am guessing you have a 2 wheel drive truck.

[wayno]

All 2wd power steering trucks have the rag joint near the firewall like in the photo below, they all have that "W" bracket, and they only go together one way as the shafts have a flat side where the bolt holding them together goes, they cannot be put together 90 degrees off.

This rag joint in the photo below appears to be put together correctly.

[DIY 1985]

Charlie, if you look at the "W" stopper / bracket, it seems to be approximately symmetrical in relation to its captive bolts.  And although the camera perspective is difficult, it is clear by the s-shape of the rubber coupler / rag that an angle is forced by the axis of lower jacket tube assembly at the rubber rag.  Both middle sections of the "W," will at some point, rub against bolts heads attached to the lower column shaft when it rotates into the obtuse part of the bend, and the heads of the bolts are carving into the "W."

[wayno]

The "W" is only there for one reason, if the rag joint fails you will still be able to steer the vehicle as the "W" captures the upper column shaft arms inside it, it is a safety devise. 

Can you bend the "W" wings for lack of a better description up just enough to clear the bolt heads but still have them clear everything else?

[DIY 1985]

Wayno, possibly I could do some bending, but I come from a land cruiser pedigree where it is typical to swap a Saginaw box add two U-joints and get back to driving. Does anyone have an image of a stock 2wd tilt power steering setup at this location, because I'd like to know what is actually at fault?

[wayno]

This is not a very good photo and this is in a 521 truck I am in the process of doing a conversion on, but it is of a 2wd Datsun/Nissan 720 tilt power steering column on the firewall side, I know this because I have pulled several of them in the past to install them in my Datsun trucks, the problem is I cannot get a photo of any of them as to much stuff is in the way to get a clear photo.

I don't know for sure, but I thought the rag joint on the 4wd was at the power steering gear, I will have to look at that next time I see a 4wd 720 in the wrecking yard.

[wayno]

OK here is 520 cab sitting on a 720 frame with a power steering tilt column.

The rag joint, notice my "W" bracket is almost touching the bolt head also

The u-joint is connected to the power steering gear, see how close the u-joint is to the upper control arm, that is why the rag joint will not fit on the steering gear in a 2wd, as it hits the upper control arm.

 

[DIY 1985]

Wayno, I believe that the 4wd power steering type would look like Datzenmike's photos, rag-joint at the box.  Did you cut the firewall face off of the 'lower jacket tube assembly?'

[wayno]

Yes I cut the plate off the column tube to install the tilt column in my 520 and 521, I am going to make a plate for the 521 this time as the column has moved around for years the way I had it, there is also an air leak, the 520 I posted a photo of(1st photo above) has a rubber piece I made, but that was hard to make and even harder to install.

[DIY 1985]

Maybe it is like Datzenmike suggested, and I should look at the mounting bracket, where it attaches to the dash could cause the harsh angle?  The FSM illustrates three 'sliding plates' on the '85.

[wayno]

If you look at this photo you can see my rag joint has a harsh angle also, in the shadow my "W" bracket is also touching the head of the bolt(barely touches), I have no idea why yours is more angled, there must be some other issue, are you cab floor boards rusted out?

It doesn't seem like using a 2wd column in a 4wd would cause this issue, but maybe that is your issue, I have never really looked at the plates close enough to see if the 2wd column goes threw the plate in the same place as a 4wd column plate, I have never used a 4wd tilt column and even if I had used one I would have cut the plate off.

I once made a column that had the rag joint on the power steering gear work, I cut some of the upper control arm off so the rag joint cleared, but as soon as I found a proper column I switched over.