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Project THESEUS: A '74 260z


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12 hours ago, Racer X 69 said:

 

Get a pair of the shorter steering arms.

 

 

I had pondered that, but that's more money to have to spend, and waiting for shipping.
 

I've figured out a good solution to the issue in my case, I'm dumb and didn't consider the fact that I have indirect access to a machine shop through my boss. Going to take the bumpsteer spacers to him and have him machine 3 or 4mm off the bottom face (will measure to figure out a good exact value) to bring the control arm and tie-rod end up a bit while still retaining the majority of the bumpsteer correction. Should solve everything nicely and no wheel spacers required.

 

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Got the tank pretty well cleaned up today to start preparing for the epoxy tank sealer that arrived yesterday. the seams are a little ragged, but I'll slather some epoxy on the outside before paint to clean that up a bit as it's only cosmetic.

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Then duct-taped over most of the spots that either definitely had pinholes or was pitted enough that it could have tiny ones. I'll go over the outside of the tank with more sealer before paint to to fill in all the pits so I don't end up with a tank with a bunch of thin spots waiting to rust. The areas by the feed/return lines I'll tape up later for reasons stated below.

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before I can apply the sealer, though, I have a bit of a problem. Even after the acid bath, the feed and return lines are blocked solid. I tried compressed air, stabbing some mechanics wire down the tubes, etc, but no joy, the wire stops dead. I'm going to try some braided cable on a drill (think bicycle brake cable), but if that doesn't work I suppose I have a few different options:

#1 - cut around the lines and try to clean them outside of the tank, or if that fails make up some new ones from the nicopp line I have and braze, solder, or epoxy them in place.
#2 - block the lines off, tap the drain plug for a 90deg fitting to use as feed, and either use the nearby small vent tube as the return, or make/attach another return nearby.
#3 - go all out and cut/weld a sump into the tank with some 3/8 NPT fittings



So far #2 or #3 seem like the best options, although ending up with the tank (or fittings) hanging down lower than stock seems less than ideal, if only because it'd be visible from the rear of the car most likely. Thoughts? Now is the time for welding on the tank if I want to do any after all.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Noll said:

Thoughts? Now is the time for welding on the tank if I want to do any after all.

 

 

 

I like option #3. And while you are at it, patch the areas with the pinholes. It follows the theme of your build, and I still think you should name the car Patches.

 

 

 

The car is coming together nicely. I bet you're itching to turn the key for that first start.

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10 hours ago, Racer X 69 said:

 

I like option #3. And while you are at it, patch the areas with the pinholes. It follows the theme of your build, and I still think you should name the car Patches.

 

 

 

The car is coming together nicely. I bet you're itching to turn the key for that first start.

 

#3 would be neat, but given that I'd most likely be running a surge tank when I go efi this seems like it would be redundant, would also be more work and I'd need to order in some steel NPT weld fittings which would take time to get here.

 

I might do some work covering up the worst of the pinholes, but if I wanted to put metal over all the pinholed spots I'd be replacing about 60% of the tank haha. Tank sealer to fill them up from the inside then epoxy on the outside to smooth everything out should work well.

 

Patches is a good name, but I have a friend with an Early Bronco he restored that already holds that name, so it's been taken in my case haha. And yep, Wish there wasn't so much work still to do before I can fire it up for the first time - finish fuel tank + plumbing, paint engine bay, run lines up there, run electrical stuff including dash, pedals, clean, reseal, etc the engine (just the leaks for now, there is a ton of gunk buildup around the timing cover seal etc), figure out wiring, and possibly rebuild the carbs if needed (probably will have to). I'll get there though!

 

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More work done on the tank today. Started by pulling off the return fitting as there was no way I was getting it unclogged and it was wiggling slightly anyway, so would have needed sealing work (and why do that work to just end up with a tiny return line again?).

Compared to the 5/16 return line that goes along the underbelly of the car, a considerable difference:

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Whipped up a replica of the fitting in 5/16:

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Made two actually, and mocked up a couple possible spots. The ID of the upper vent hose is a perfect slip fit if I wanted to epoxy/braze in the return there, although I don't know that there's really a benefit to doing that over the stock location?
If I don't use it for that I'll at least be sleeving it with some of the 5/16 tubing as it has some pinholes and is generally pretty pitted. Option 3 would be to just block it up as I plan to simplify the venting anyway as seen here:

http://www.zhome.com/Racing/FuelTankVaporLineMod/FuelTankVaporMod.htm

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Ok, on to the feed line. With the help of a long stick, a tiny flashlight on a bendy wire, and a lot of effort I was able to grab a pic of the bottom end of it. Looked pretty darn crusty from what I could see, so I removed it (in two parts because of that upper U bend).

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Once out, it cleaned up pretty nicely, and  was even able to get the clog out from the far end. I'm mildly annoyed that I removed the line to do this now, but there was no way I was going to be able to get it out in-situe without cutting a hole in the bottom of the tank to get at the far end and given what I could see with it in the tank that seemed like a big gamble. Not really going to be able to get it back in, the sender hole is too small to fit a hand in to maneuver it into place (and it's cut in half now so...).

The return line is pretty much sorted then (just need to decide which hole to use), so I  pretty much need to figure out what I want to do for the feed, and then epoxy the tank after that's all in place.
Current options I'm pondering:

1 - do similar to what I've seen done before when the pickup is clogged and bend up a bit of pipe with a 90deg bend on it that runs into the stock feed line hole, epoxy/braze it in place, and run a rubber hose from that on the inside down to the bottom of the tank. Doing this in 3/8 would be good as it would be the same size as the chassis feed line for future EFI stuff, but I don't have any tooling to flare 3/8 line. I suppose I could experiment with using solder to try to make some sort of bulge at the end for the rubber line to slide over?

2 - go with my previous option of just tapping the drain plug for 3/8 npt and running a 90deg 3/8 fitting off that (I could even weld on some protection around the fitting although I think that would be overkill).

3 - make/weld in a sump. (see reasons above)

Edited by Noll
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On 5/6/2021 at 10:10 AM, Noll said:

 

That seems like it would be nice, but their kit that's big enough for car tank is 365$ , which is pretty darn pricey. If I could get at the inside of the tank to tape the holes up and then brush it on outside I could get away with a lot less I'm sure, but that isn't really an option.

 

https://www.caswellcanada.ca/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer-gts1.html

 

 

As of now I'm thinking of the POR-15 tank sealer kit for the inside after using some PC-7 2-part epoxy on the exterior (says that it's suitable for gasoline, but shouldn't matter as the tank sealer will go over it on the inside so it wouldn't be exposed directly to gas/ethanol regardless).

EDIT: I am dumb and did the conversion wrong, their 112$ kit should do the whole tank which is pretty comparable to POR prices.

EDIT2: Ok, I've ordered the caswell kit and submitted a cancellation request to amazon for the POR-15 kit I'd already ordered (but hasn't shipped), hopefully that's not too much of a hassle. I saw caswell mentioned as good stuff in my research about fuel tank repair but hadn't realized it was available in canada.

 

LOL. And yeah, you don't need to put the tape on the inside of the tank. Just on the outside. I've used a few different sealers now and the Caswell was the best. It's also ethanol safe... and that's saying something. The coating on the inside of my beetle tank was awesome. It looked like honey but was super tough. I'll be using it on my 1600 tank soon.

 

 

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2 hours ago, slowlearner said:

 

LOL. And yeah, you don't need to put the tape on the inside of the tank. Just on the outside. I've used a few different sealers now and the Caswell was the best. It's also ethanol safe... and that's saying something. The coating on the inside of my beetle tank was awesome. It looked like honey but was super tough. I'll be using it on my 1600 tank soon.

 

 

 

Yeah, I was overthinking it before as I often do lol. Here's hoping it work in my case, with any luck it'll add some much needed strength back into the tank in addition to the sealing.

 

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Decided I'll use the drain as the feed, so blocked off the old feed, soldered in the replacement return line, and sleeved the top leaky vent tube. If time allows I will coat the tank tomorrow, we'll see though.

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Also ordered a 3/8 npt tap and corresponding drill bit, as well as the 90deg fitting and some thread sealant.

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17 hours ago, Noll said:

Decided I'll use the drain as the feed, so blocked off the old feed

Are you going to build a little skidpan around it?  It will be kind of hanging out in the breeze under there and real easy for some road debris to clip it.

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32 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

Are you going to build a little skidpan around it?  It will be kind of hanging out in the breeze under there and real easy for some road debris to clip it.

 

That's a good suggestion, I'll definitely try to do something like that once the fitting arrives so I can make sure to leave enough space for it to be threaded on. I had pondered welding something on now but  didn't want to mess it up without having any size reference. The rear suspension should protect the tank from most stuff but some sort of protection against debris hitting the fitting seems like a good idea. Will have to epoxy it on as the tank is now coated (see below) but should still have plenty of sheer strength if I build it right.

 

 

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Alright, tank is now (hopefully) sealed. Poured the majority of the Caswell tank sealant epoxy inside and sloshed it around for a while, and then once it set for a bit I mixed up the rest and brushed it on the pitted areas of the tank after pulling off the tape. Won't know until it all dries and I can pressure-test, but I'm hopeful that this will have gotten all the pinholes. Worst-case I'll order one of their small epoxy kits and add another coat on the outside where needed.

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Once that's all done and tested, time to paint, add the feed fitting, and get it in the car I guess.

 

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4 hours ago, Noll said:

build a little skidpan

I suggest not going overboard with the skidpan, instead go with a plastic debris shield as all you really need is to keep crap from making direct contact. Keep the skidpan for the Niva.

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Just now, EDM620 said:

I suggest not going overboard with the skidpan, instead go with a plastic debris shield as all you really need is to keep crap from making direct contact. Keep the skidpan for the Niva.

 

oh yeah, I'm just thinking of a little angled bit attached to the tank to make it so any debris doesn't hit the fitting square-on (as it's sticking straight down off the tank, not including the 90deg aspect of it), couple inches in size at most.

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16 hours ago, Noll said:

 

oh yeah, I'm just thinking of a little angled bit attached to the tank to make it so any debris doesn't hit the fitting square-on (as it's sticking straight down off the tank, not including the 90deg aspect of it), couple inches in size at most.

I’m not sure a fuel supply fitting  hanging from the bottom of the gas tank is a good idea. 
 

The first time you go into or out of a steep driveway the fitting will drag the ground and break off.

 

Not only will whatever fuel is in the tank spill on the ground, but it will also damage the bottom of the tank, and create potential for a fire.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Racer X 69 said:

I’m not sure a fuel supply fitting  hanging from the bottom of the gas tank is a good idea. 
 

The first time you go into or out of a steep driveway the fitting will drag the ground and break off.

 

Not only will whatever fuel is in the tank spill on the ground, but it will also damage the bottom of the tank, and create potential for a fire.

 

 

I had considered that possibility, but given the location of the feed it shouldn't be an issue. I've seen a few people run this setup without issue, and nobody that has done it and run into issues ripping it off.

 

The departure angle at the rear of the Z is such that even an EXTREMELY steep driveway would cause the rear valence to scrape before anything touched the tank (at which point I would likely have also ripped my front spook/3pc valence off), and the fitting is far enough inboard that it's pretty well protected from anything other than reversing into a curb/concrete barrier of the perfect height (at which point I would also have done damage to the rear valence and tank anyway most likely).

 

Couple poorly-edited pics below to show what I mean:

 

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Edited by Noll
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Yea I see what you mean, more or less in a "safe" zone. Is it possible to put in place some kind of safety that would stop flow in event of high flow rate (such as torn off fitting)? I've seen 1 vehicle with a fuel leak and a tiny fire underneath - enough for one lifetime. Lucky the guy beside me in traffic had a fire extinguisher, I've carried one since that day.

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On 5/12/2021 at 9:46 PM, EDM620 said:

Yea I see what you mean, more or less in a "safe" zone. Is it possible to put in place some kind of safety that would stop flow in event of high flow rate (such as torn off fitting)? I've seen 1 vehicle with a fuel leak and a tiny fire underneath - enough for one lifetime. Lucky the guy beside me in traffic had a fire extinguisher, I've carried one since that day.

 

I'll look into something like that, would need to mighty small though to be before the 90 and would push the 90 down farther which is not ideal. The only thing that could cause a fire in that area were something to go wrong would be if the gas took a hard left onto the exhaust a couple ft away, so should be pretty safe even in the event of something bad happening. That said, yep, I always also carry a fire extinguisher, never needed one yet but I have dailied cheap beaters since I got my license so it's never a bad idea (and doubly so with the Z-  if it burnt down I don't even know what I'd do) 🙂 .

 

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So, can't do more on the tank until the sender o-ring shows up so I can seal the tank to pressure-test it, so did some other stuff today.

I'm not planning on running any of the upper vinyl trim, so everything up there was painted black. I applied some rubber edging around the spot-weld seam on the roof to clean it all up a bit, pretty happy with the result. Obviously the current headliner is far from perfect, but I plan on keeping it in homage to how this thing started out - I found it under a layer of crappy black vinyl glued on over top of it when I first stripped the car, and the 80's velour diamond pattern is fun. Going to try to remove some more of the cement residue now that I know that mineral spirits do a good job at that.

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Also started on gluing the vinyl diamondplate into the cabin. It looks a lot worse in pics than in person, ah well lol. Not a perfect job but I'm happy for my first ever attempt. I have yet to do the top of the wheelarches or the strut top covers, need to modify them to fit the rear strut tower bar first.

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I also started tearing down the engine in preparation for cleaning/sealing/paint/reassembly.

Took all this off, plus the fuel rail although I didn't take a pic of it for some reason. There was a bunch of surface rust under the old heatshielding, but should just need cleaning and paint.

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Engine doesn't look too bad. I narrowed down the front gunk buildup to the front crank seal behind the pulley, apparently it's a pretty easy one to replace and no need to pull the timing cover.

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What's not as good though, was finding this lash pad lying in the bottom of the head, and the valve associated with it being stuck slightly open. As far as I can tell there's no damage to anything else, so I think it probably popped out due to the valve staying open at some point over the last few years when it was cranked over by hand.

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I've doused the valve (topside and through the port in the head) in penetrating fluid and 3-in-1-oil, but if anyone has any other suggestions for un-sticking it I'm all ears. The engine will not rotate after the cam lobe hits it, and I obviously don't want to force it evben though I guess that could break it free.

The lashpad with the broken 'ear' I'll probably just steal from the L28 I have that needs a rebuild, after making sure the thickness is the same of course.

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I had a go at getting the valve fully unstuck, but no joy. Was able to get it to go down, but will not go back up. the intake valve on #5 is also similarly stuck on further inspection, so pulling the head off seems the only way to go. Not the end of the world, just more money to spend (headgasket, valve spring compressor, 10mm, 1/2 drive hex bit, etc).

With the valve pushed down you can see some corrosion on the valve stem, with any luck this is the only culprit and not bent valves. From what I've read though, the late E88 head that I have has the same larger valves as the L28 heads, so if I do have a bent valve I can steal one off the p79 head from the needs-rebuild L28 in theory (with the appropriate lapping etc). If not, valves are cheap, just more time waiting on shipping.

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Had a go at pulling the crank pulley off to see if I would have to buy a puller or not, happily no need for one so a bit more money saved for now.

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There is a bit of wear on the seal surface, but not terrible. Apparently I can get around this by pushing the new seal in to a slightly different depth.

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Ok, on to engine stuff cleanup. Started with the fuel rail, removed the evap line and cleaned/painted it all:

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Cleaned off the intake a bit too, it was super grimy:

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All done, and cleaned/painted a bunch of other engine ancillaries and the rear stowage doors too.

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need to have a more-in depth look at the carbs soon, make sure nothing is seized up etc. Hoping to be able to use them as-is, but will do a rebuild if needed.

Before I pull the head off I should try to de-grease everything, not sure when that'll be. Will paint the crank pulley after that too, no sense doing that first and then getting it greasy while cleaning the engine.

 

Oh, also going to get the header blasted and ceramic-coated, should turn out pretty nice.

Edited by Noll
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The stuff I need for the fuel feed showed up today, going to leak-test the tank before introducing another hole that needs to be blocked up though.

I'm pretty happy with the low-profile nature of the fitting, if I can get the threads flush with the tank exterior once the rubber line is on it'll all basically be touching the tank - that + no bits hanging down below the fitting means that it ought to be pretty difficult for it to get ripped off, even in a worst-case scenario.

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The rest of the day was a bunch of misc. stuff. Attached the stowage doors - they're very obviously not the same shade as the interior paint, but it'll be hidden under the carpet an do I opted for function over form. No sense spending time and money to get a paint that was as similar as I could, in this situation anyway.

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Spun the rear pillowball mounts 180deg so I would have more positive camber adjustment - the shortened struts meant that even with them maxed out the other way there was still a lot of neg camber. I'll be 3d-printing a cover for this area that bolts to the unused middle set of threads at some point.

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And hooked up the handbrake cables, although I might have some tweaking to do.

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The pics Silvermine happens to have on the install seems to have a lot more open length in the spring area, and the cable seems to be seated farther into the bracket than mine. That last point could just be because the cable ends seem a little different (early 240z ones in their pic possibly), although I'm wondering of I should grind off the first "ring" on the end of mine to allow it to seat farther into the bracket. This would also mean that there was more room for the pivot piece to move, as I had to pull it pretty far to get the cable end to seat on it, and so there isn't much more movement left before it runs out of travel.

 

Edit: I'm also obviously going to mess with the actual handbrake adjustment first before going to more drastic measures.

 

@grannyknot as this setup was on your car before, would you happen to have any insight as to the correct way it should be? Additionally, when it comes to adjusting the handbrake, when the system is bled will the pistons remain in place and take up all the current slack, or will I need to thread the piston out so the pads just fit over the rotor to get any handbrake action? As it is I had them opened up a bit (the funky spin-to-adjust mechanism) which means there's too much gap between the pads for the handbrake lever to move them close enough to make them grab the rotor. I could adjust the pistons I guess, but that seems like a hassle and would be an issue again as the pads wear if the hydraulic side of things doesn't do the adjustment for me.

 


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The Zhome how-to page includes a pic about a spacer bracket that would move the handbrake arm on the caliper a lot farther back in its travel, not sure if this is needed in my case as it may be a different setup than mine in some ways.

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Edited by Noll
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As I remember, the parking brake mechanism on those rear calipers only moves the piston a 1/10th of an inch so every point in the handbrake cable needs to be adjusted perfectly. I also added a Wilwood 2lb residual pressure valve so even when your foot is off the brake pedal there is a small amount of pressure keeping the pads next to the rotor so that 1/10" of movement isn't wasted.

It is an imperfect situation but part of the fun of modifying.

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15 hours ago, grannyknot said:

As I remember, the parking brake mechanism on those rear calipers only moves the piston a 1/10th of an inch so every point in the handbrake cable needs to be adjusted perfectly. I also added a Wilwood 2lb residual pressure valve so even when your foot is off the brake pedal there is a small amount of pressure keeping the pads next to the rotor so that 1/10" of movement isn't wasted.

It is an imperfect situation but part of the fun of modifying.

 

Thanks for the info! Will mess around with all the adjustment stuff once the brakes are bled then (otherwise the pistons are miles apart right now so no point even trying). I have that same 2lb valve waiting to go in when i make the front brake lines, you recommended it to me a while back when I had some other questions about the setup. I'm sure I can get it all working nicely in the end, and worst-case I'm no stranger to driving manual cars without working handbrakes lol.

First order of business though will be to adjust stuff so the rotating levers for the handbrake function aren't pulled 80% of the way through their travel like they are currently   with the handbrake down, Don't want to hit the end stop while there's still cable pull left.

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Been working on a lot of boring but necessary stuff the past week or two.


In no particular order:

- primed the fuel tank to more easily see pinholes (none spotted, still going to pressure-test it though)

- pulled the handbrake lever off to properly seal the hole where it goes into the trans tunnel

- adjusted the handbrake nuts way off to give the rear handbrake caliper levers a lot more usable throw

- glued closed-cell foam to the fuel tank straps as a replacement for the old rubber bits

- dropped the header off to get sandblasted/ ceramic coated, will get it back in a couple weeks.

- ordered and received a bunch of gaskets and tools for the engine work

- replaced a bunch of the fuel tank-related wiring and connectors, including soldering wires directly to the sender with a plug instead of the stock nailhead connectors

- made up a kinda ugly but totally functional J bolt for the fuel tank strap as I didn't feel like buying a repro one

- cleaned off the intake/exhaust gasket mating surface (with a nylon brush on a drill so as not to marr the surface)

- made a start at degreasing the front of the engine.



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As soon as the new fuel sender o-ring shows up, I can test the tank and the paint it. Then just need to buy a bunch of hoses and I can slap it under the car for good.
 

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I've enjoyed watching you repair a car most people would just scrap, kudos to you for not getting burned out and pressing forward with all of the repair.

 

Having said that, now that you are going to need to pull the head, I think you should pull the front cover, oil pan, rear main seal, etc. while the engine is out of the car to make sure those old ass gaskets and seals don't leak all over your newly painted car.

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27 minutes ago, Z23T said:

I've enjoyed watching you repair a car most people would just scrap, kudos to you for not getting burned out and pressing forward with all of the repair.

 

Having said that, now that you are going to need to pull the head, I think you should pull the front cover, oil pan, rear main seal, etc. while the engine is out of the car to make sure those old ass gaskets and seals don't leak all over your newly painted car.

 

Many thanks! It's been a fun journey, wish I was done with the metalwork on the doors etc, but not much left to do before paint so I can't complain too much 🙂 .

 

I have a replacement oil pan gasket ready to go (and a much less rusty pan on my for-parts L28 that I'll swap over after cleaning up), and will definitely be having a close look at the rear main when I pull the transmission off to swap over to the 5spd to see if it needs doing (if it's fine for now I'll be swapping in a 240sx 5spd at some point anyway so I'd probably just do it then when I pull it all apart again). I have a timing cover gasket kit on the way too, although I'm hopeful the front oil leak was just the crank seal.

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Amen to replacing all the seals while it's out. Throw it on a stand and go over it properly. Rear main seals are the worst and the hardest to replace in the car... Werl, except for the sump gasket. Oh man, I did it in the car and what a mission! 😣

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On 5/25/2021 at 3:43 AM, slowlearner said:

Amen to replacing all the seals while it's out. Throw it on a stand and go over it properly. Rear main seals are the worst and the hardest to replace in the car... Well, except for the sump gasket. Oh man, I did it in the car and what a mission! 😣

 

Don't have a stand sadly, but I can get everything done with it dangling from an engine hoist I'm sure.

 

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As I've not pulled apart a L-series before, I figured I'd practice on my spare L28 first to make sure I didn't mess anything up with pulling the head, as it needs to be torn down anyway and I wanted to see how bad it was inside.

Lots of old powdery (coolant?) junk here, but the bores seem like all they need is a dingleball hone.

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Same deal with the head, would be good to hot-tank it if I ever want to use it as those coolant passages are nasssty.

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Testing out my new spring compressor, I stole a couple of intake valve out of the head and cleaned them up so they're ready to drop into the L26 head if its stuck valves end up being bent and not just rusty. I'm hoping I can just work them back and forth and break them free though, have to take the cam out to get at the springs with the compressor I have which is a bit of a pain with all the rocker arms etc.

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Also stuffed a 5/8 T fitting into the filler neck port, as my car didn't have the stock plastic T like earlier cars and as I'm changing the venting/evap stuff a fair bit I needed some way to both vent to the filler neck, but also let pressure out when the gas cap is on - like the S1 cars It'll go up (for rollover protection) then down and out the floor to vent vapors out.
The black sealant here was probably unneeded, but I don't want any gas fumes sneaking past so no reason not to.

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Also had some gold reflective tape I ordered show up, so put some on the re-painted fuel rail. +10hp lol
Jokes aside, it should help keep fuel temps down at least a little, although I'm sure having the exhaust header coated will do the bulk of any heat reduction.

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Edited by Noll
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Buy a cheap engine stand second hand off Craigslist and do yourself a favor. In fact, you probably know someone who has one lying around. I was given mine and offered two others in a one year period. They make life so much easier.

 

That L28 looks a bit crusty. Does it turn over by hand?

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15 hours ago, Noll said:

Same deal with the head, would be good to hot-tank it if I ever want to use it as those coolant passages are nasssty.

You don’t want to put aluminum in a hot tank. It will dissolve it.

Edited by Racer X 69
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