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Solid vs poly rear subframe bushing.


Lozer

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No disrespect for Mike, I understand what he's saying, but there is practical comfort, and then there's performance. There is something absolutely intoxicating about hearing and feeling EVERYTHING the car is doing. Nothing practical about it, I just like it when my balls tingle after getting out of my car.  :devil:

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No disrespect for Mike, I understand what he's saying, but there is practical comfort, and then there's performance. There is something absolutely intoxicating about hearing and feeling EVERYTHING the car is doing. Nothing practical about it, I just like it when my balls tingle after getting out of my car.  :devil:

YES!, YES, THAT!!!! :thumbup:

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If I wanted to have a comfortable drive around town, I'd drive my Land Rover discovery or my VW Jetta.

 

And I do.

 

But sometimes I want to drive my loud as shit, low as balls and uncomfortable datsun truck around town or for an hour and a half out to the coast because it's cool and enjoyable. Uncomfortable? Absolutely, but that's not what owning a Datsun is about for me

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Just to toss another log on this fire. The performance difference between rubber and solid or poly is like using a condom to running bareback. You feel everything and you know where its going. LOL

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I have the rubber bushings in my dime still and you can feel the rear of the car set into a corner, but before it sets in it feels loose.....I need to get some solids....

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Why use a rubber? I still want to feeling EVERYTHING.

 

 

BTW what's the difference between a used tire and 10,000 used rubbers?

 

 

Ones a Goodyear and the other is a VERY GOOD year.

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I'll bet Nissan invested a great deal of time and resources designing the rear suspension of the 510. The intent was to make a 2,100lb. car with 100hp comfortable and controllable for street use, and lets give it up, Nissan did a great job. In the interest of improving handling performance lets say you replace the stock 142/90 r13s with 215/45 R15s. With the right tire compound you just increased grip by a factor of 3, and you've pushed the suspension way beyond what it was designed to do. As you know, there are lots of upgrades that need to be made to the shocks, spring rates, sway bar, etc so the suspension can handle all that grip. At what point rubber bushings become a liability may be on the outer limit of handling, but Increase the hp and those outer limits are being visited much sooner and far more often. At that point it's perfectly logical to remove any tactile disconnect between suspension input to the driver and vice versa. Driving a high performance 510 is a gloriously direct binary experience. There is nothing modifying, correcting, or smoothing out the stream of communication between the car and the driver. Get to know that car and you can do things a fly by wire AWD ABS Traction Control 2015 WRS can't. Ah shit... I need a rag.  :w00t:

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I have gone a different route on the suggestion of some of the guys on the 510 realm.  What I have done is take out all the washers that typically reside above the sub frame and then install one of the cupped washers upside down so that is pushes the rear sub frame directly against the body, effectively solid mounting it.  It's free and it works.  It is also way easier than removing the stock bushings.

 

Here it is covered in more detail here:  http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12639&p=227908&hilit=x+member+washer#p227908

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I have gone a different route on the suggestion of some of the guys on the 510 realm.  What I have done is take out all the washers that typically reside above the sub frame and then install one of the cupped washers upside down so that is pushes the rear sub frame directly against the body, effectively solid mounting it.  It's free and it works.  It is also way easier than removing the stock bushings.

 

Here it is covered in more detail here:  http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12639&p=227908&hilit=x+member+washer#p227908

I.E. Savage washer.

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I.E. Savage washer.

Not exactly.  The Savage washer mod doesn't solid mount the rear cross member, it tightens the bushing, but still allows some movement and compliance.  What I described above pushes the cross member solidly against the body and doesn't allow it to move.  It also requires no modification to any of the stock washers like the Savage washer mod does.

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Can't have it all mike, not with a datsun. You want performanve and comfort go buy a new BMW or something.

On the contrary, you can have it all if you have several 510's set up differently. Just have to have the money, time, and place to store them.

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Couldnt you technically do the same thing to the cab mounts? Or the trans mount? I've never taken it off before so I'm not sure exactly how that's set up

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Again how much vibration and noise can you stand for no verifiable increase in 'performance'? What are you expecting to get from solid mounting your cab or the drive train?

 

If this was suspension like leaf spring mounts or upper/lower control arms.... possibly....

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I used to daily drive a 1950's ford victoria gasser with a blown 427 with solid mounts and leafs up front with an aluminum bomber seat for a 45 minute to an hour and a half commute 3 days a week in LA traffic. I'm not too worried about my Datsun truck, but I see what you're saying.

My Datsun is being built strictly for performance (eventually) and being driven daily. I get massive amounts of enjoyment from difficult to drive, loud and unruly vehicles. As long as it's safe, who really cares

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Again how much vibration and noise can you stand for no verifiable increase in 'performance'? What are you expecting to get from solid mounting your cab or the drive train?

 

If this was suspension like leaf spring mounts or upper/lower control arms.... possibly....

 

 

I'll take the bait.

 

No verifiable increase in 'performance'? That's easy to say when you know none of us have data to prove one way or the other, but people who have that data run solid connectors. You know, people like the Nissan factory racing R&D folks, Peter Brock, Bob Sharp, and Troy Ermish who holds lap records in his vintage B sedan 510 on tracks all through the West. Now you could say that "on the street" you will likely never experience any difference other than hearing and feeling more "vibration". That argument totally overlooks the fact that some of us Datsun owners are lucky enough to have license plates on our race cars. We aren't talking about daily drivers or even secondary transportation. For impractical race/performance minded people, our expectation is the antithesis of quiet comfort. Wether you can tolerate it or not, there are tangible performance benefits to direct tactile chassis feedback and minimizing any vagueness that comes from play and or cushioning in the stock chassis. The softness and give of rubber bushings is designed specifically for comfort, not performance. 

 

For the sake of argument lets say you had a 510 with 330hp SR swap, stupid grippy tires riding on stiff springs and fat sway bars. Even your motor mounts would need to be poly, because if they were rubber the motor would torque rotate and the fuel rail would pumch a hole through the hood. Do you really think you wouldn't see difference in performance between cushy stock rubber bushings, and solid? Maybe you should quantify what you mean by performance, because you are comparing Fuji apples to prunes here. 

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