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Icehouse

Narrowed rear control arms

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Sam and I are going to make some narrowed rear control arms.  We haven't nailed down a design yet, if anyone has any ideas they would like to share we are all ears.  They are going to be 2" narrower per side.  We want to retain the original control arm bushings and bolt pattern for the drum brakes (since even if your car is upgraded to disks the brackets will still work) and use the same stub axle.  We will however be deleting the stock spring perch.  Seems everyone runs coilovers these days.   Things I'm curious about.

 

1. does anyone have the rear bushing part number?  

 

2. Are they even still available from Nissan?  

 

3. I for some reason remember there being two different length inner bearing spacers.  Is that true?

 

 

 

These arms will allow me to run 13x8 +0 rims front and back with 225 45 13's.  Which would be bad ass! 
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1. 55045-21000

 

IMG_1630__zps45fde0ce.jpg

 

2. Looks like it.

 

3. If you mean inside the hubs, yes, there are actually 3 different lengths, but I can't tell you what they are :P

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The bushings at the crossmember are 55045-21000 two per arm. Also used in the 610 sedan.

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damn, too slow.

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A question Icehouse, is this for a 510?

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A question Icehouse, is this for a 510?

Disregard question, reread and noticed which sub section you posted in.

 

Narrowing the rear track is the best way to fuck up your rear end steering geometry and invoke understeer in a 510.

 

Negated albeit with different offset wheels to an extent.

 

From 20+ years rallying experience with a 510, ive always found they turn in much better with a wider rear track and this is a standard setup trick down here. Originally we used the rear setup out of a 610 SSS (it was wider than factory) which, with a bit of massaging could be made to fit the 510. Subsuquently we would cut and reweld the mounting points to widen the track.

 

If you go down the route you are, you may find yourself having to do some balancing with both front and rear setup to get the desired handling result. FWIW (taking spring rates and shock absorbers out of the equation) ive always run as wide as possible rear track on my road and race cars. 1/2 degree negative camber on the rear, 1.5 to 2 degrees negative camber on the front and as much positive caster as you can crank out of it.

 

Additionally, if you do the mods you are talking about, you may also need to fit a rear swaybar to dial out the potential understeer.

 

Sorry it doesnt answer your original question, just my two cents worth.

 

Cheers.

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Hey Jeff since we were talking about this the other day, I confirmed my wheels are 15x8 offset 0. It appears my rear control arms have been modified by the previous owner to allow for more wheel. I have to run a 5 mm spacer for this to work

 

9E227F2F-5E4C-4FAD-B526-1FB32DCE42FB_zps

 

7C1346B0-875B-4AFF-97EA-C1DFBBAB87AB_zps

 

A 195/50r15 is in the wheel now.

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Eliminating the spring bucket should make for a much easier triangle to build as well.

Be sure to keep us up to date on your ideas. Sounds interesting. 

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1. 55045-21000

 

IMG_1630__zps45fde0ce.jpg

 

2. Looks like it.

 

3. If you mean inside the hubs, yes, there are actually 3 different lengths, but I can't tell you what they are :P

 

 

Thanks Mat!!  Looks like me may use hiem joints after all.  Luckily I work with Sam so any time an idea pops into one of our heads we can chat about it.  We are going to expand on a design a dude on here posted a long time ago.  

 

 

 

The bushings at the crossmember are 55045-21000 two per arm. Also used in the 610 sedan.

 

 

Crazy you guys both posted at the same time!  

 

damn, too slow.

 

 

by seconds! 

 

Disregard question, reread and noticed which sub section you posted in.

 

Narrowing the rear track is the best way to fuck up your rear end steering geometry and invoke understeer in a 510.

 

Negated albeit with different offset wheels to an extent.

 

From 20+ years rallying experience with a 510, ive always found they turn in much better with a wider rear track and this is a standard setup trick down here. Originally we used the rear setup out of a 610 SSS (it was wider than factory) which, with a bit of massaging could be made to fit the 510. Subsuquently we would cut and reweld the mounting points to widen the track.

 

If you go down the route you are, you may find yourself having to do some balancing with both front and rear setup to get the desired handling result. FWIW (taking spring rates and shock absorbers out of the equation) ive always run as wide as possible rear track on my road and race cars. 1/2 degree negative camber on the rear, 1.5 to 2 degrees negative camber on the front and as much positive caster as you can crank out of it.

 

Additionally, if you do the mods you are talking about, you may also need to fit a rear swaybar to dial out the potential understeer.

 

Sorry it doesnt answer your original question, just my two cents worth.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

We are defiantly going to model it in solid works just to see what it does.  What I've learned from the front suspension is its easy misunderstand suspension dynamicallywhen imagining it in my head, so much stuff going on!!  I'll throw in a guess here so I can look back and see how dumb I was.  It seems to me that if we don't change the crossmember pivots and all we do is narrow the rear control arms so 225's will fit under the fenders the roll center will be effected slightly because the previous 195's and the 225's will share the same outer limits.  Without flaring the car I don't see how to avoid this though.  Need more grip at the track :) 

 

P.S.  I don't know if you saw in the swamp thing thread I now own a X rally 510.  Was raced in the early 70's.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Jeff since we were talking about this the other day, I confirmed my wheels are 15x8 offset 0. It appears my rear control arms have been modified by the previous owner to allow for more wheel. I have to run a 5 mm spacer for this to work

 

9E227F2F-5E4C-4FAD-B526-1FB32DCE42FB_zps

 

7C1346B0-875B-4AFF-97EA-C1DFBBAB87AB_zps

 

A 195/50r15 is in the wheel now.

 

So thats how the fit!

 

 

 

 

Eliminating the spring bucket should make for a much easier triangle to build as well.

Be sure to keep us up to date on your ideas. Sounds interesting. 

 

 

we will post a preview as soon as we have one.

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I think to truly improve the rear of a 510 it would need a whole redesign not just more narrow arms.

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I think to truly improve the rear of a 510 it would need a whole redesign not just more narrow arms.

 

So your saying we can't improve on the rear suspension at all?  I think a friendly bet may be in order :) 

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It can be done but you're going to end up putting as much into the semi trailing arm as it would take to come up with a superior design to replace it.

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It can be done but you're going to end up putting as much into the semi trailing arm as it would take to come up with a superior design to replace it.

 

 

That's win if we don't have to remove the back seat area.  Which is what would have to do otherwise.  

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That's win if we don't have to remove the back seat area. Which is what would have to do otherwise.

I think it could be done, something the the rear setup from a Miata could be massaged in there without cutting up the seat pan.

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If you are going Fab the rear control arms I would look into using the s13/s14 rear axle bearing. 4 or 5 lug options, 930 cv options and factory set up. The weak link is the stub axle assembly. Looking forward to see what you guys end up making as always.

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If you are going Fab the rear control arms I would look into using the s13/s14 rear axle bearing. 4 or 5 lug options, 930 cv options and factory set up. The weak link is the stub axle assembly. Looking forward to see what you guys end up making as always.

 

 

Yeah our idea would allow to swap bearing carriers.  Hopefully it all works out.  

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Miata set up won't work with out loosing the rear seat and moving the fuel tank

You are correct, I was picturing something more s13 like in my head.

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I was thinking a 323 gtx trapazoid set up would work . But the diff is to small. The rx7 rear end is almost the same . I thought you wanted to try that?

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As far as I can tell anything that isn't semi trailing arms is going to require cutting the seat area out.  

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What about the a strut set up like in a Z? That's a pretty lopro setup with better geometry modification potential.

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The strut angle will confine you to a predetermine track width.   Unless you want to cut the body and move the shock towers in.  Maybe it would be narrower but I doubt it.  looking at how the strut on the Z looks.  

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Granted, redesigning the entire rear suspension would provide greater potential for improvement, but that put's it out of reach for most 510 owners. The real advantage of an improved bold in trailing arm is the low coat simplicity and accessibility of it. If Jeff's goal is most bang for the buck, least time and skill to install, and greatest marketability, than as a business venture, redesigning the trailing arm is the way to go. 

 

If you're going with ball joints,  can I add one request... built in adjustable camber, toe, and a bit of tracking width?  :D

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Jag style rear, just do it! 

 

24969DSC_2121-large.jpg

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By chance can you guys measure the 3 bearing spacer types for me?  Lets see if we can figure out if there is only 3 and if 3 are required.  

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