Ali-Reza's 67 RL411

[reza]

Hey guys, I've been a semi lurker on Ratsun for a couple of years now. You might have seen this car listed for sale a couple weeks back/ 12/12/16 "Very glad I didn't sell it"
 I don't take step by step pictures, just general pictures of overall transition. 

I bought this RL411 about a year ago after seeing it for sale in the Bay area, I struck a over the phone deal and had it shipped to Oregon. Has kind of been on the back burner but I am planning on rebuilding portions of the car this year, including a Roadster rear axle swap and 4 speed or 5 speed transmission swap. 









When I bought the car it had been sitting in a field for many years, It ran and drove but very poorly. The r16 engine had blow-by I assume from dry valve seals. I rebuilt the carbs, flushed the radiator, did a full tune up and rebuilt the brake system. as far as a driver, it is now at grocery getter status. 

First on list,
exhaust tubing
lower
Roadster Topy wheels and caps
Pull the bumpers and fine a straight set.

 

[]2eDeYe]

Good looking RL, I was watching that ebay ad. Probably to close to Christmas :)

 

What is the benefit of going to the roadster rear? LSD? New to the 411's and learning whatever I can. 

 

If you pull the auto in favor of a manual, I may be interested. Could be a good idea to have a spare.

[reza]

Good looking RL, I was watching that ebay ad. Probably to close to Christmas :)

 

What is the benefit of going to the roadster rear? LSD? New to the 411's and learning whatever I can. 

 

If you pull the auto in favor of a manual, I may be interested. Could be a good idea to have a spare.

I'm looking for a  3.9 gear ratio as well as finned aluminum brake drums, bolts up without effort. My 411 likely has the 4.37 rear dif ratio

 

Whenever I pull the auto, you can have it, though your BW35 will likely last forever.

[MikeRL411]

I'm looking for a  3.9 gear ratio as well as finned aluminum brake drums, bolts up without effort. My 411 likely has the 4.37 rear dif ratio

 

Whenever I pull the auto, you can have it, though your BW35 will likely last forever.

 

My British BW has lasted me 49 years!  Just to be sure I get another 50 years or so out of It I have squirreled away a complete rebuild kit.

[bananahamuck]

I thought RLs all came with the 190 differential with 411 gears..

   Should be able to just change gears on a truck diff ( to get numbers you want) and add the aluminum drums without changing out whole unit..

[Draker]

Glad you decided to keep it! Looks great!

[reza]

I thought RLs all came with the 190 differential with 411 gears..

   Should be able to just change gears on a truck diff ( to get numbers you want) and add the aluminum drums without changing out whole unit..

Ah, thank you. I do not have a manual for the RL411 just going off a manual i have from a first year 410. 

 

Will also be on my list of things to get. 

[MikeRL411]

Hey guys, I've been a semi lurker on Ratsun for a couple of years now. You might have seen this car listed for sale a couple weeks back/ 12/12/16 "Very glad I didn't sell it"

 I don't take step by step pictures, just general pictures of overall transition. 

 

I bought this RL411 about a year ago after seeing it for sale in the Bay area, I struck a over the phone deal and had it shipped to Oregon. Has kind of been on the back burner but I am planning on rebuilding portions of the car this year, including a Roadster rear axle swap and 4 speed or 5 speed transmission swap. 

 

 

 

 

 

When I bought the car it had been sitting in a field for many years, It ran and drove but very poorly. The r16 engine had blow-by I assume from dry valve seals. I rebuilt the carbs, flushed the radiator, did a full tune up and rebuilt the brake system. as far as a driver, it is now at grocery getter status. 

 

First on list,

exhaust tubing

lower

Roadster Topy wheels and caps

Pull the bumpers and fine a straight set.

 

 

 

If you need to replace those 2 preformed hoses from the heater fire wall to the waterpump sourced hoses, I have posted a "how to" that converts readily available hose units to fit the 410 and 411 sedans.  Also, you still have the 2 clamps that secure the hoses from the waterpump to the heater junction.  They are very desirable to secure the heater hoses and dress up the engine compartment.

[reza]

If you need to replace those 2 preformed hoses from the heater fire wall to the waterpump sourced hoses, I have posted a "how to" that converts readily available hose units to fit the 410 and 411 sedans.  Also, you still have the 2 clamps that secure the hoses from the waterpump to the heater junction.  They are very desirable to secure the heater hoses and dress up the engine compartment.

Hi Mike, thanks for the heads up I will search for your "how to", I do still have the original hose clamps, though they need re-plated. Neely sent me this photo of his RL411 engine bay, hope to someday have mine look this mint. 

 

 

 

 

With information being so scarce for these cars I just save as many pictures as I can find online, to use for reference. I have also been using this first year bluebird tech manual, 

 

Half the info is good, half is irrelevant. 

[MikeRL411]

Go to http://www.nicoclub.com and look under the Datsun, 411 section.  you will find the 410/411 parts manual!  RL411 parts are way in the back so a lot of plowing will take place before you find familiar RL411 and WRL411 unique parts.  Including optional parts.

[reza]

Go to http://www.nicoclub.com and look under the Datsun, 411 section.  you will find the 410/411 parts manual!  RL411 parts are way in the back so a lot of plowing will take place before you find familiar RL411 and WRL411 unique parts.  Including optional parts.

Mike, Thank you. Just downloaded, very helpful! 

[reza]

For anyone wondering how the $22 dollar reproduction tail light lenses look, here they are. Well worth the buy, only one bastard about them, they do not have threaded holes for the screws to run into. I ended up using 1/2'' self tapping sheet metal screws and snugged them in by hand. They do not come with gaskets, I made some out of 6mm foam sheet, found at Joannes fabrics. $1.99  

[MikeRL411]

Re exhaust tubing. In my 49 years of RL411 experience, the lower 90 degree bend of the exhaust pipe after the exit through the inner fender is the first exhaust pipe segment to rust out [from exhaust condensation]. This section of pipe is not available in any form. Take the car to a muffler shop! They can fabricate a replacement section of the rusted out segment and properly weld it in to the impossible to find or replicate vertical section with its "D" shaped cross section and the horizontal section to the "Pre Muffle" or Resonator. Did this 2 years ago, very satisfied with the result although I miss the roar and growl of a "holey" exhaust pipe that close to the header. Good luck.

 

BTW, those replacement rear lenses look very good! The probably reason for not tapping the plastic is that most of our original RL411 were for export to North America and were SAE, but later JDM [Okinawa] units were metric threads. Safe call? Untaped, leave it up to the user.

[reza]

The exhaust on my car is blown open in the spot you are talking about, also the gasket between the exhaust manifold and collector is leaking, as well as a crack in the actual manifold. When I saw these 2 manifolds pop up on the classifieds I had to buy them. 1 is crack free but the gasket is bad, the other was killed during shipping. It gave me a chance to see how thin the material is, very delicate pieces. 





I heard to make the gasket you take 2 l-series collector gaskets and splice them together?

[MikeRL411]

I use 2 510 exhaust manifold to pipe gaskets! You have to cut the 510 gaskets on an angle [hard to explain, you will immediately see when you lay them on the manifold or the pipe flange. This will leave a small delta that is not covered. You could probably say "who cares" but I cut a patch fron the left over bits of one of the 510 gaskets, used some "muffler sealer" compound to glue the resultant patch to the exhaust pipe, and put some on top for good measure. This work around has lasted me about 15 years. Is that long enough to suit you!

 

By the way! That bolt that you see on the bottom of the exhaust to tail pipe flange actually has a purpose! It attaches a brace tubing to the engine block to steady the manifold vibration. The semi ideal workaround is actually an early Chevy Camaro front fender to chassis brace! I kid you not. The easier workaround is a piece of steel or Aluminum tubing. Flatten one end and bend to fit the manifold. Cut to length and flatten / bend the end to fit the hole in the engine block just below the carbs. Drill 2 holes to match the stud on the manifold and the bolt hole in the engine block. Don't remember the diameter after all these years but that's why you have younger eyes than me1

[]2eDeYe]

The exhaust on my car is blown open in the spot you are talking about, also the gasket between the exhaust manifold and collector is leaking, as well as a crack in the actual manifold. When I saw these 2 manifolds pop up on the classifieds I had to buy them. 1 is crack free but the gasket is bad, the other was killed during shipping. It gave me a chance to see how thin the material is, very delicate pieces. 

 

 

 

 

Good to see you got those, I was right behind you on them :lol:

 

They are pretty brittle from age and heat cycling. I'm hoping to make a new manifold in the not so distant future. 

 

Definitley add the brace that Mike is describing, it will help the manifold last a lot longer if the entire exhaust isn't hanging on the exhaust studs. 

[reza]

I use 2 510 exhaust manifold to pipe gaskets! You have to cut the 510 gaskets on an angle [hard to explain, you will immediately see when you lay them on the manifold or the pipe flange. This will leave a small delta that is not covered. You could probably say "who cares" but I cut a patch fron the left over bits of one of the 510 gaskets, used some "muffler sealer" compound to glue the resultant patch to the exhaust pipe, and put some on top for good measure. This work around has lasted me about 15 years. Is that long enough to suit you! By the way! That bolt that you see on the bottom of the exhaust to tail pipe flange actually has a purpose! It attaches a brace tubing to the engine block to steady the manifold vibration. The semi ideal workaround is actually an early Chevy Camaro front fender to chassis brace! I kid you not. The easier workaround is a piece of steel or Aluminum tubing. Flatten one end and bend to fit the manifold. Cut to length and flatten / bend the end to fit the hole in the engine block just below the carbs. Drill 2 holes to match the stud on the manifold and the bolt hole in the engine block. Don't remember the diameter after all these years but that's why you have younger eyes than me1

 

I'm sure once I have it torn apart I will see what you are talking about, "gasket"  Hopeful to get started tomorrow tearing it down, I was wondering what that bolt was for. Thanks.

 

EDIT: I remember reading on here a while back, apparently the collector was flawed from the factory and restricting air flow.. I took 2 collectors off to inspect 2 different manifolds and both look fine, I don't see any area that has restriction. My conclusion is......they are acceptable.  :thumbup:

Good to see you got those, I was right behind you on them :lol:

 

They are pretty brittle from age and heat cycling. I'm hoping to make a new manifold in the not so distant future. 

 

Definitley add the brace that Mike is describing, it will help the manifold last a lot longer if the entire exhaust isn't hanging on the exhaust studs. 

When you see them, buy them!!!  :rofl:  Not even going to throw away the busted one, too rare. I'm curious to see the exhaust you build for your wagon. 

[Datsun Dude]

The exhaust on my car is blown open in the spot you are talking about, also the gasket between the exhaust manifold and collector is leaking, as well as a crack in the actual manifold. When I saw these 2 manifolds pop up on the classifieds I had to buy them. 1 is crack free but the gasket is bad, the other was killed during shipping. It gave me a chance to see how thin the material is, very delicate pieces. 

 

Good luck on solving this. Exhaust manifold issues are also holding back my build. The lack of spare parts is making this a tough nut to crack. Cheers.

[reza]

Good luck on solving this. Exhaust manifold issues are also holding back my build. The lack of spare parts is making this a tough nut to crack. Cheers.

I'm figuring on taking the exhaust manifold and collector to a machine shop, having them surfaced and then building the gasket like Mike said. What do you need?

[MikeRL411]

Cast Iron CAN be welded if you can find an experienced and sober artisan, not every self proclaimed "expert" can actually deliver! A very expensive for RATSUN afficianados would be to contract for a thick walled non cast, probably stainless steel, replica, have several built and pray that there are enough non cheap skates to buy your excess production. With about 4000 RL411 sedans and more [like 4600] WRL411 wagons imported to North America, the buyer pool is very thin. Not counting the units that have been foolishly wrecked in various examples of stupid bravado. Also a word of caution, I can proove that all Stainless Steel products do indeed corrode when subject to high temperatures. My BBQ has Stainless Steel shields over the burners. Heat first turns them blue and then to rust!

 

I actually toyed with an idea to incorporate as "Yokohama Tin" and offer to buy up all the 410/411 spare parts in the Gardena warehouse. My wife over rode that idea with the very clear "What the hell are you thinking?" The need to buy or rent a warehouse and computerize the rendom stocks won out. How I wish I had ignored reality and gone almost broke! Unfortunately Renault overcame reality and threw all these desirable parts in the trash, wise vultures promptly grabbed all the good stuff! I found out too late.

[reza]

----------- any leads on a front bumper? I have a classifieds ad running, no hits..

[Charlie69]

Here is a link for the 411 Factory service manual in PDF.  Free download.

 

https://www.manualslib.com/download/838320/Datsun-411-Series.html

 

Here is a colorized wiring diagram.

 

 

My photo bucket is set to share so please help your self to any pictures you would like.

[MikeRL411]

Please note!   The numbers on the headlight relay terminals on the diagram have absolutely no correlation to the physical location.  Go by the wire color codes.

[Charlie69]

Here is the Electrical Diagram out of the factory service manual linked above.

 

 

I am not sure what the numbers on the relays correspond to.  But I would listen to MikeRL411 as he is a knowledgeable person on these little cars and goons.

[MikeRL411]

^{In the referenced schematic, in the upper left corner is the schematic of the 410 / 411 unique headlamp relay.  My display is not of a fine enough resolution to see if the contact numbering is the "True" designation.  But, that said, as a last resort you could go to Radio Shack and buy a "flea board" and their push through contacts.  Then buty2 early, say 1968, 510 headlight relays and wire up a compatible substitute assembly.  Sure as hell beats scrapping an otherwise road worthy410 or 411 because  the headlights were screwed up! Weather proofing?  I leave that up to your imagination but lucite strips crazy glue and maybe some clear RTV come to mind.  [Don't pot the relay contacts!]}

 

^{If there is enough interest, I have searchedthe true left to right original headlight relay contacts schematic numbers and the true relay case position tabs.  Im too late today to search for my documentation, or more realistically to write down the designations that I inscribed on my original and still in use, relay.  The relays seldom fail!  The contacts just may corrode, but that's what "Crocus Cloth" was made for.  It's residue is not conductive so any powder left over is copper!  Blow away with compressed air or computer keyboard cleaner canned air.}