My 1971 521

[wayno]

I think I see where this is going, so this is my view on it.

The rotor turns counter clockwise, when you advance the dist you turn it clockwise, now if the rotor is almost past the plug wire post at 12BTDC, when the mechanical advance kicks in the distributor cap post is being turned up to another 20 something degrees clockwise away from the rotor that is moving/turning away from it, this could become an issue.

If the engine doesn't miss, backfire, or knock/ping while driving down the freeway then you are probably alright, but in the end it likely is better to figure out what the core issue is, with all the proper parts it should be very difficult to get the engine to start and run properly with it a tooth off as there is not a lot of distributor adjustment to start with, that it runs properly at all is kinda baffling.

 

[d.p]

Yeah and it starts, idles and seems to drive a-ok. 

 

Anyways I just went out and moved it to TDC and is this just dumb luck?!  At TDC rotor is pointing just to the left of #1 plug.   #1 is the one right under the coil wire.

 

With the dizzy still adjusted all the way to one side so what does that mean?   

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by d.p

[mainer311]

It runs because the conductor at the end of the rotor is pretty wide.

 

Damn it, now you guys got me all paranoid about my phasing.

[d.p]

4 minutes ago, mainer311 said:

It runs because the conductor at the end of the rotor is pretty wide.

 

Damn it, now you guys got me all paranoid about my phasing.

 

is that a bad thing?  I have other rotors but I am pretty sure this is the one that came with the el dizzy.    Do I need to clock the oil pump still?

 

Inquiring minds what to know! 

Edited November 7, 2018 by d.p

[wayno]

I just seen your photo of you distributor mounted, I do not know if this really makes any kind of difference but that adjustment plate with the degrees on it is supposed to be pointed towards the radiator/front where it is easy to see and access, plus it puts the matchbox module away from the exhaust manifold so it doesn't get hot, this is set up like am L16 with a points distributor.

Are you using a matchbox pedestal or is this a points distributor pedestal?

Edited November 7, 2018 by wayno

[d.p]

Matchbox and I think I just dropped it in that way just because, no ryhme or reason why.  I can flip it.  But then I would need to flip the order of the wires too?  

[d.p]

Looks like lots of people have it installed the way I do.    Also I have an MSD Blaster 2 so I could in theory do away with the resistor too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mainer311]

The order is ALWAYS 1-3-4-2. It’s just that #1 will likely be more towards the top/front now.

[wayno]

2 minutes ago, d.p said:

Matchbox and I think I just dropped it in that way just because, no ryhme or reason why.  I can flip it.  But then I would need to flip the order of the wires too?  

Yes, but I do not believe it is as easy as turning the distributor around 180 degrees on it's shaft, the pedestal needs to be remounted 180 degrees but I do not think it would change anything.

I look at that photo and think that your rotor is pointed in a strange direction, is that at TDC?

[mainer311]

Also, I didn’t use the matchbox pedestal, because it smashed the vac advance right into my upper radiator hose.

[d.p]

Yeah that is TDC (look at the picture of the cam above it) and IIRC the same direction when I clocked the oil pump when I installed the pertronix.   Which is why it probably looks strange because its not at the 11:28 everyone always talks about. 

[Crashtd420]

31 minutes ago, d.p said:

Matchbox and I think I just dropped it in that way just because, no ryhme or reason why.  I can flip it.  But then I would need to flip the order of the wires too?  

Remember the top of the oil spindle is slightly offset.... you have to do the oil spindle and distributor both to flip it 180...

[wayno]

This is how I have mine.

 

 

Another thing I had to do was get away from the way you have your wires connected to the matchbox module, when the engine shifts position when going up or down in gears, them wires move and they started touching each other and shorting out, the engine would run erratically and die sometimes.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by wayno

[d.p]

Yeah fuck all that if I don't have to.   I just want it to run consistently but I think that is too high of an expectation for these old girls.  Everyone always talks about how stout Nissan made these engines but nobody raves about the constant upkeep.  ?

Edited November 7, 2018 by d.p

[wayno]

If your distributor drive shaft is not at 11:30 then that is likely the issue, you likely just dropped the distributor in at TDC and found a post that was close and called that number one plug wire, that is likely the issue, it's close enough to run but not close enough to have full adjustment.

[Crashtd420]

39 minutes ago, mainer311 said:

It runs because the conductor at the end of the rotor is pretty wide.

 

Damn it, now you guys got me all paranoid about my phasing.

I'm right there with you.... I still wanna read the article I posted ... I only skimmed it.... I guess I'll put that foolish clear cap to some use and do a little experiment myself.. 

[d.p]

 

9 minutes ago, wayno said:

If your distributor drive shaft is not at 11:30 then that is likely the issue, you likely just dropped the distributor in at TDC and found a post that was close and called that number one plug wire, that is likely the issue, it's close enough to run but not close enough to have full adjustment.

 

Do I need full adjustment?  I guess what I want to know is having it the way I do now, is that bad? 

If I wanted to flip the dizzy to face the front I would just clock the oil pump to 1128/1130, flip the dizzy and wherever the rotor is pointing would be #1 correct? 

Edited November 7, 2018 by d.p

[mainer311]

19 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Remember the top of the oil spindle is slightly offset.... you have to do the oil spindle and distributor both to flip it 180...

 

No you don't. All you're doing is flipping the pedestal and housing, not the center shaft.

[Crashtd420]

16 minutes ago, mainer311 said:

 

No you don't. All you're doing is flipping the pedestal and housing, not the center shaft.

Ya I was already rethinking my comment.... 

So the rotor would still be in the same spot but the whole distributor has rotated..... 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Crashtd420

[banzai510(hainz)]

some nomenclature mistakes but youll get it.

one doesn't need to remove the valve cover to see if lobes are correct just remove the oil cap and look at the exhaust valve in the hole and whn its in the 9 0 clock position then look at the crank and turn it to Zero. that's TDC. then look at your distributor. If you need cam timming then yes remove the valve cover to check the V and Notch.

As for a L series lasting forever. They do but 40 yr old parts do need to be swapped out every now and then. Personally I think they are better than a lot of German cars from the same period. But the cost is cheaper to maintain.

Edited November 7, 2018 by banzai510(hainz)

[wayno]

I guess I should have finished the comment about the wires going to you matchbox module, you need the plug made for the module, you could also use the plug for the 720 console gauges that is on the oil pressure sender, they used that "T" plug on a lot of things, even the early alternators had that plug.

[mainer311]

Well, for shits I went home, drilled a hole in my cap at #1, painted a white line down the middle of the rotor, and had a look. Mine is pretty much perfectly centered, actually it fires slightly before center.

 

 

 

Here is with the engine revving through range of advance. Phase sweeps past center, to just after center.

 

 

The firing rate plays absolute hell with iPhone video.

 

[wayno]

2 hours ago, d.p said:

 

 

Do I need full adjustment?  I guess what I want to know is having it the way I do now, is that bad? 

If I wanted to flip the dizzy to face the front I would just clock the oil pump to 1128/1130, flip the dizzy and wherever the rotor is pointing would be #1 correct? 

 

I already said if it runs good, meaning starts good, idles good, and drives good your likely alright, but if it backfires, misses, and cuts out when you floor it then maybe you need to set it up properly.

I ran my LZ23 with the cam off a tooth or 2 for years with my distributor timed at around 6/8 degrees BTDC, then one day Mike I believe posted a photo of what the cam should look like when timed properly, now I have more power throughout the RPM range after changing the cam timing, but I now have to have it timed at 0 degrees(TDC) or it knocks/pings on the freeway when going up a slight grade, I burn regular gas for a reason that i will not get into on the open forums, so to fix my issue I will have to modify my mechanical advance plate in my distributor to keep it from advancing so far and then I will be able to time it somewhere between 6 and 12 degrees BTDC, I just have not done that yet as it runs fine and I am working on my 320.

Whatever the rotor is pointed at with the cam at around 10am/2pm, the dist drive at 11:28, and the crank at TDC, yes that will be number one plug wire, and the rotor will likely be pointed at 4pm(the post pointed at the upper control arm/SU fuel bowl).

Edited November 7, 2018 by wayno

[Charlie69]

On all the L Engines that I have installed matchbox distributors on the matchbox is towards the radiator.  I have always used 1980 720 L20B distributors as these have been easier to obtain.

[Crashtd420]

13 hours ago, mainer311 said:

Well, for shits I went home, drilled a hole in my cap at #1, painted a white line down the middle of the rotor, and had a look. Mine is pretty much perfectly centered, actually it fires slightly before center.

 

 

 

Here is with the engine revving through range of advance. Phase sweeps past center, to just after center.

 

 

The firing rate plays absolute hell with iPhone video.

 

I would love to see dp do this too for comparison.....