My 1971 521

[mainer311]

10 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I have the EI distributor which I think doesn't care if the input voltage changes. I'm not sure but sometime it sure feels like it fires up as I release the key. It shouldn't matter as both the run and the start wires to the coil and the ballast are joined together when using an EI.

 

That's how my roadster is wired and it still does it. It's the voltage drop across the entire ignition system, not just the matchbox. The starter motor sucks the life out of the battery.

[banzai510(hainz)]

firing up when releasing the key(going back to start) means your HOT START wire isnt working. Re seat the key connector in back and or ck the HOT start wire by disconnect the selinoid on starter. then put a meter on the hot start wire and put key to start. YOu should have 12volts.  and of coarse yourl running the point coils and ballast set up.

Edited November 5, 2018 by banzai510(hainz)

[d.p]

Can someone tell me if my timing is ok?  12 degrees at idle lines right up at TDC.   But the dizzy is out of movement at that point.   I think crash mentioned something about 32 degrees and 3K but when doing that its nowhere near TDC.  Do I need to reclock this mfer? 

[datzenmike]

Probably needs the oil pump/distributor drive spindle to be re-clocked. This will move the distributor and free up your adjustment. 

 

The 32 degree timing is the static 12 you set with the distributor and the total revved up mechanical advance added. Usually all in by 2,500-3000 RPMs. 

[mainer311]

1 hour ago, d.p said:

I think crash mentioned something about 32 degrees and 3K but when doing that its nowhere near TDC. 

 

If the timing is already set to 12 BTDC, then whatever mechanical advance you get is hard set by the internal cam and the vac advance. You could probably leave it where it is. If you ever plan on advancing the timing further, then you'll need to either modify the timing plate bolted to the bottom of the dizzy (by making the slot longer), or jumping a gear tooth on the drive.

[banzai510(hainz)]

DP does your motor like run out of steam . Going up a hill?

 

to me if your dist spindal is timmed correctly you should go from 0 -25BTDC just by turing the dist one way to the other.

to ME YOUR SAYING, I got distributor crank all the way advance and all I get is 12deg BTDC. then I say it offa tooth or maybe your dist plate bolted upsidedown of the dist maybe needs to be adjusted (a 88mm bolt on bottom,backside of dist)

[d.p]

Not that I can tell but I didn't drive it much after I swapped the dizzy, just around the neighborhood.    But even then it drove well as far as I could tell. 

 

With the dizzy turned all the way towards the back of the engine with 12 degrees advance on the timing light the pointer/arrow/whatever you call it lines right up to TDC on the crank pulley.   The module on the dizzy is facing the manifold but now that I think about its facing the wrong direction?  The module should face the front of the truck towards the radiator? 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by d.p

[banzai510(hainz)]

IM not familiar on how your Dial type timming light works but if it says 12 I guess I believe it.

Dont matter if the module is in front or 180out in the back. If you want it 180 the other way you just turn the pedastal mount the other direction and move the spark plug wires. where 4 was youll make that #1.

moving the module away from the manifold was for heat. butreaaly depends how your vac advance is placed also.  There were 2 types of EI distributor and one really fit better than the other which was slight offset towards the rad hose if I remeber right.

 

One way to tell if off you head up and hill hard and youll feel it like cut out cause your going out of time.

 

 

Only thing I can say is maybe you have a mismatched pedastal to dist plate/dist or your spindal is off. but cheak the dist plate 8mm bolt and maybe you can get it to move the way you need to.  I even seen people flip the timming plate on the dist.  but youll figure this out.  Maybe I just dont understand your timming light. maybe your fine

[mainer311]

Your timing light sounds confusing. Do you actually set the timing that you want on the timing light, and then it’s supposed to light up at TDC?

 

That’s backwards to every timing light I’ve ever used. The first large notch that’s fully CCW is TDC. Every notch CW from there is another 5 degrees, so your light should blink when it’s approximately between the 3rd and 4th notch. 

 

To test this, you can shut the engine off, hand rotate the crank to 12 degrees, and then see if the dizzy rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug pickup in the cap.

 

To get the matchbox away from the exhaust manifold, it may require you to flip and/or modify the pedestal plate to be able to rotate it.

Edited November 5, 2018 by mainer311

[mainer311]

Here’s the position of my matchbox. It faces the driver’s side fender well.

 

 

Here’s what I had to do to get it there:

 

 

I had to cut the aluminum tang off of the pedestal that has the timing increments on it. This allowed me to flip it around. Towards the back of the truck, you can just barely see the 8mm bolt that holds the timing setting in place. Toward the radiator side, you can see the 8mm bolt that holds the plate to the bottom of the dizzy. If I recall, I think I ended up slotting both holes in the plate. This gave me plenty of adjustment so that I could time it to whatever I wanted.

Edited November 6, 2018 by mainer311

[d.p]

I’ll check the timing again tomorrow.   

 

Just to be clear at idle it should be pointing between the 3rd and 4th notches?   

 

I thought my timing light worked like this... I set the advance on the timing light to 12 and with the engine idling it lights up at TDC on the pulley (large notch) which would equate to 12BTDC? 

 

I guess i could set it to 0 and it should then light up between 3rd and 4th notches? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[d.p]

This is the light I have:  

 

INNOVA 3568 Digital Timing Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVYGV4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_sbo4BbZFAC337

[mainer311]

43 minutes ago, d.p said:

I’ll check the timing again tomorrow.   

 

Just to be clear at idle it should be pointing between the 3rd and 4th notches?   

 

I thought my timing light worked like this... I set the advance on the timing light to 12 and with the engine idling it lights up at TDC on the pulley (large notch) which would equate to 12BTDC? 

 

I guess i could set it to 0 and it should then light up between 3rd and 4th notches? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You could try that as a test and see what happens. If that’s how it works, then you’ll know. I have a timing light that looks very similar to that one. It probably has a timing function for cars that only have one notch on the pulley.

 

To clarify, it should be between the 2nd and 3rd notches AFTER the large notch.

 

Some pulleys have a small notch that is 5 degrees after TDC. This would read -5, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc.

 

Some pulleys start with 0. Those would go 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc.

 

Your best bet is to find the large notch and put a little paint in it. That way, when it’s running, there’s no mistake about the 0 mark.

Edited November 6, 2018 by mainer311

[wayno]

I have a timing light for old guys, when I time my truck I connect the light to the positive and negative posts on the battery, connect the spark plug lead to number one plug wire, I remove the vacuum advance hose/line from the distributor, then I start the engine and point the light at the timing marks and pull the trigger, if it needs adjusting I shut down the engine and loosen the distributor bolt, re-start the engine and adjust it as needed, shut down the engine, tighten the distributor bolt, re-connect the vacuum line to the distributor, remove all the timing light wires and I am good to go.

I have no idea how far it advances when revved, normally I just advance the distributor till it starts to knock/ping, back it off a couple degrees and call it good, this stuff that you guys use these days is too complicated for me, especially the devices for measuring air mixture, I have dual SUs on all my L blocks, I adjust them by plug color after getting them balanced with a air flow meter, and adjusting them according to the manual, plug color is my way and that cannot be done by driving it a couple miles, it takes a 100 miles or more before checking and adjusting it ever so slightly.

I am going to have to re-curve my work truck distributor, I have had it apart and know where to start, the distributor guy is on this forum and will tell you what to do if you ask.

Edited November 7, 2018 by wayno

[datzenmike]

If you have a scale on the timing cover and a single notch on the pulley The first scale reading the notch passes is 20 I 15 I 10 I 5 I 0

 

If you have a single pointer on the timing cover and several notches on the pulley the first one to come into view would be 20 I 15 I 10 I 5 I 0 then -5 if it has it. The pulley can't be marked -5 0 5 10 15 20. Crank turns clockwise.

[d.p]

37 minutes ago, mainer311 said:

You could try that as a test and see what happens. If that’s how it works, then you’ll know. I have a timing light that looks very similar to that one. It probably has a timing function for cars that only have one notch on the pulley.

 

To clarify, it should be between the 2nd and 3rd notches AFTER the large notch.

 

Some pulleys have a small notch that is 5 degrees after TDC. This would read -5, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc.

 

Some pulleys start with 0. Those would go 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, etc.

 

Your best bet is to find the large notch and put a little paint in it. That way, when it’s running, there’s no mistake about the 0 mark.

 

TDC (large Notch) is already painted white.  I’ll look tomorrow and see what’s doing 

[mainer311]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

The pulley can't be marked -5 0 5 10 15 20. Crank turns clockwise.

 

That’s how it reads left to right if you’re looking at it from the front, genius.

Edited November 6, 2018 by mainer311

[datzenmike]

The pulley???? Well it's been a long day.  If the crank turns clockwise up to TDC the first notch to pass the pointer would be the most advanced. The last umber to pass TDC would be 0 then -5 just past TDC. 

[Crashtd420]

I figure I should comment since I told dp to use the timing light the way he is.....

The theory was it is easier to adjust and watch the zero mark.....

With the timing lights that you can adjust for advanced you can use that to your advantage over the old style that just flashes.... 

If he puts 12 degrees of advance into his light the pointer and zero will line up at zero when he adjusts his timing to 12. that's the same as having the gun set to zero and looking for the 12degree mark.....

The same works for full advance why put 20 degree in the gun then have to add and look for the 12 mark.... just put 32 in and line up the zero mark on the pulley... plus you can adjust the light up or down to see where the timing is... 

Again I just thought this was easier and less confusing of a way.... 

[mainer311]

Yeah, it seems like a decent idea. I’m pretty sure my light does this too, I’ve just never messed around with it. I bought it for the digital tach feature.

[mainer311]

7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

The pulley????

 

Yes, the pulley.

[datzenmike]

Woke up this morning and yes it makes sense now. (said it was a long day yesterday)

[d.p]

9 hours ago, Crashtd420 said:

I figure I should comment since I told dp to use the timing light the way he is.....

The theory was it is easier to adjust and watch the zero mark.....

With the timing lights that you can adjust for advanced you can use that to your advantage over the old style that just flashes.... 

If he puts 12 degrees of advance into his light the pointer and zero will line up at zero when he adjusts his timing to 12. that's the same as having the gun set to zero and looking for the 12degree mark.....

The same works for full advance why put 20 degree in the gun then have to add and look for the 12 mark.... just put 32 in and line up the zero mark on the pulley... plus you can adjust the light up or down to see where the timing is... 

Again I just thought this was easier and less confusing of a way.... 

 

 

Thanks Crash. 

 

You are spot on...with my timing light set to 12 degrees of advance it lights up at right the TDC mark.  At that point the dizzy is fully turned towards the firewall with no movement left in that direction.   I would post a pic but its pouring here so I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.  

[banzai510(hainz)]

just stick a 8mm wrench and loosen that 8mm bolt under the dist to loosen the plate and see if it cranks farther over. 3 min job

[mainer311]

And if that doesn't work, just slot the dizzy plate a little more for a few more degrees of adjustment.