Crashtd420 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Sure Neil, That's why you tack weld. Nothing sucks more than having to cut off something that's final welded. I may as well post my reply to your PM here. I can't say for sure what the angle of the links will be. That final number will be based on wheelbase, instant center and anti-dive. Take a few measurements and plug them into the xls calculator I attached a while back. The instant center should be somewhere behind the front axle centerline, Ok I'll see what I come up with, from what you said and that picture I'm getting a better understanding.... I didn't really understand that calculator but ill try again..... I'll probably message you before I bother tacking it back in.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 It helps if you have vehicle weight and front/rear weight. It does look weird as you first start playing with it, but as you add in the numbers, it starts to become way more clear. 2 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 One other thing, you are building the suspension at ride height, correct? If not, the numbers won't be right. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: One other thing, you are building the suspension at ride height, correct? If not, the numbers won't be right. Yes I have things set at ride height.... front end is on its tires on ramps with jack stands at the rear .. I did level the truck best I could.... another set of jack stands are holding the axle at ride height relative to the frame... I took a measurement from the top of the axle tube to the bottom of the frame when it was on the ground with full weight.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: It helps if you have vehicle weight and front/rear weight. It does look weird as you first start playing with it, but as you add in the numbers, it starts to become way more clear. About to give it shot to see if it tells me what I was seeing on the truck.... I took a bunch of measurements and the I used my laser level.... I made a line that followed the lower link and the same for the current center link..... I could see that they just run parallel right to the front of the truck.... Next lined up to the center link mount on the differential and sent a level line down the side of the truck... the intersection would have been past the centerline of the front spindles.... So then I kept the laser locked and centered on the rear bolt and angled it to intersect at a correct spot up front.... That gave me a different angle.... instead of 3.5 degrees down towards the back. I need to angle the front down 2 degrees a total of 5.5 degrees difference from where I have it.... The bottom tape is the lower bar.... The top tape was a level center bar... The middle tape is angling it down 2 degrees.... You can see it intersect at the rear of the tire..... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 That's better. That will give you a truck that doesn't spin out every time you romp on the gas pedal. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: That's better. That will give you a truck that doesn't spin out every time you romp on the gas pedal. So after a few times playing with that calculator and a few trips into the garage for other measurements, I think I figured it out.... The laser and tape got me close and gave me a good visual understanding but the calculator is definitely going to be a little more accurate.... This is what I came up with.... Which is better.... Or There is only a 1/4" difference in crossmember height between the 2 pictures.... my gas tank goes under the crossmember so I wouldn't mind having that extra 1/4" but if the second picture is better than I'm fine with it..... I can move that crossmember height number around and get the anti squat point closer to the wheel diameter maybe split the difference between the 2..... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 Split the difference.... Hoping you like this one.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) Neil, #2 looks ideal, but I understand the space constraints. Any of these three would be better than the parallel setup, by a long shot. Good work. Ohh yeah, watts link - what you said earlier, flat and low. Slam dunk. Edit, there's a bit more to it than that, but for your purposes, just about anywhere is ok. Shock mounts - pure afterthought. Edited December 31, 2020 by Stoffregen Motorsports 2 Quote Link to comment
greenthumb Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 This thread is great. Learning so much. Thanks to you all! 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Neil, #2 looks ideal, but I understand the space constraints. Any of these three would be better than the parallel setup, by a long shot. Good work. Ohh yeah, watts link - what you said earlier, flat and low. Slam dunk. Edit, there's a bit more to it than that, but for your purposes, just about anywhere is ok. Shock mounts - pure afterthought. I'll shoot for the one you recommend knowing I have a little wiggle room.... I should still have enough room for the gas tank.... thanks... 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Well this sucks..... I cut the crossmember free today and started getting it into the position and wanted to see how much clearance I would have from the bottom of the gas tank to the ground..... In the process I realized while I'll have enough ground clearance the filler neck is pointing right into the frame.... 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 I'm thinking my only option is to relocate the filler neck or atleast angle it upwards..... Not sure if I should deal with this now or later..... 2 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Wasn’t there someone who turned the tank sideways and then mounted it at the back of the frame? Always an option to just put it somewhere else entirely. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 34 minutes ago, mainer311 said: Wasn’t there someone who turned the tank sideways and then mounted it at the back of the frame? Always an option to just put it somewhere else entirely. I would rather keep it in the stock location, my battery is or was back there.... I might have some issues with my battery now too, the watts link seems to want to occupy the space my battery was.... So I still have to think about that so not sure how that would translate to trying to put the tank there..... Reason I bought this kit was because it was supposed to retain the stock gas tank location.... when I had the crossmember higher the filler neck would have cleared.... So I guess he designed it with the wrong geometry in mind ..... 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Regardless of what else has to fit, the crossmember needs to be where it need to be so I decided to just move ahead and tack the crossmember and center bar where it is..... so now it should all be at the proper geometry.... thanks again stroffgren.... I'll deal with the gas tank, battery and exhaust after the suspension is all mocked up but before I final weld anything..... I have coilovers on the way so I'll be able tack the rest in soon too..... Edited January 1, 2021 by Crashtd420 2 Quote Link to comment
bilzbobaggins Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Sucks the tank wont work there. Spin it 180 and move the fuel door to the other side? Seems like a lotta work. Or a cap on top of the tank you access thru the door in the bed? 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, bilzbobaggins said: Sucks the tank wont work there. Spin it 180 and move the fuel door to the other side? Seems like a lotta work. Or a cap on top of the tank you access thru the door in the bed? It will fit I just need to decide how I want to modify the filler... I'm hoping I can change the angle on the filler neck and still connect to the stock fuel door.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 Just popped into my head, I should probably double check drive shaft and differential clearance before I get to ahead of myself..... I guess I know where i'm starting tomorrow.... did a quick look tonight and I think I'll be ok, but I wanna put the axle as far up as I can and verify I wont have an issue.... 2 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: Just popped into my head, I should probably double check drive shaft and differential clearance before I get to ahead of myself..... I guess I know where i'm starting tomorrow.... did a quick look tonight and I think I'll be ok, but I wanna put the axle as far up as I can and verify I wont have an issue.... Yes, that's what I was saying about "full bump". Once I figure out the angles of the control arms/links, I build the setup with the axle at full bump so I know everything fits. Sucks about the fuel filler. I'm sure there's a workaround. I do like the idea of moving the tank to run across the front of the bed, but that poses its own challenges. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 Well this is past where the coilover will bottom out... so I'll have clearance.... Then I thought I really screwed up.... I looked down and saw the flange on the differential was not centered.... After I couldnt find any error in my setup I realized it's the differential itself .... Even looked at my other differential in the basement and it started to make sense..... So the output flange is apparently offset? Why is that? 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 Looking at that picture it doesnt even look square...... I hoping that's just the camera angle, or the fact that I have only 2 loose nuts keeping the differential from falling out... Having some lunch and heading back out to bang my head against it for a while longer 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said: Well this is past where the coilover will bottom out... so I'll have clearance.... Then I thought I really screwed up.... I looked down and saw the flange on the differential was not centered.... After I couldnt find any error in my setup I realized it's the differential itself .... Even looked at my other differential in the basement and it started to make sense..... So the output flange is apparently offset? Why is that? Because ideally, each axle shaft is equal in length to eliminate torque steer. Pinion shafts are almost never centered. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 2, 2021 Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said: Looking at that picture it doesnt even look square...... I hoping that's just the camera angle, or the fact that I have only 2 loose nuts keeping the differential from falling out... Having some lunch and heading back out to bang my head against it for a while longer Do you have a plumb bob? Drop a line down each end of the upper link crossmember and mark its location on the floor. Then drop a line from the center of the bolts holding the front of the lower control arm. You know this location should be consistent as it is original to the truck. Measure the distance on each side and see if they are equal. It does look crooked. Did you make sure both lower control arms were the same length? Edited January 2, 2021 by Stoffregen Motorsports 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Did you make sure both lower control arms were the same length? Yes, they are the same..... All my measurements seem to be good.... I need to clean the gasket surface and make sure its seated properly and check again.... I was honestly getting irritated and didnt wanna even look at that again.. I decided to work on fitting the watts link to the axle housing and actually making forward progress vs possibly having to redo something again.. the axle housing gets thicker towards the center, the brackets fit the main diameter and need to be ground to fit the thicker part ..... 2 Quote Link to comment
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