wayno Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 I have some experience in this subject although it might not apply with a stock situation, back in 2002 I converted over to disc brakes on my 521, I used 620 rotors/calipers, lower control arms, tension rods, and spindle assemblies, I used a modified 720 upper control arms(lengthened .75"), since the 720 upper control arms have larger mount holes in them I made sleeves for the 521 bolts, at first it didn't work out that well until I figured out I had to reverse the 720 upper control arms to get the castor where it needed to be, after I figured that out everything was within 2 degrees of stock and it was able to be aligned. Well the first time one of the driver side bolts broke I was doing a U-turn(I haul a trailer) and that was kinda a shock, I got it up the street and did the job I went there to do and then I tried to figure out what to do to get home, I finally figured out if I got the control arm where it needed to be I could use a pair of vice grips to get me home as I could not get the broken piece out of the hole to put a new bolt in. Fast forward for a couple years, I put power steering in the truck, over them years I kept buying stock type bolts to replace bolts that kept breaking because they would work there way loose, I kept checking every couple weeks and tightening them up but they still would get loose and break, I kept tightening them tighter and tighter but they kept getting loose, the last time they both broke at the same time(not the first time it happened), I was going 30mph, the front end dropped to the ground when I just touched the brakes, I used bolts I had to get me home but I could not get them tight as the threads had pulled out of the shock tower this time from tightening them too tight, I went to the hardware store and bought these long grade 8 bolts with a lot of threads on them and big washers and grade 8 lock nuts, I put the bolts in the holes and tightened them as tight as I could get them which was not very tight as the threads were mostly gone, then I removed the wheel and put the washers and lock nuts on the end of them long bolts sticking out and I tightened them damned things as tight as I could get them, it sucked/crushed that flat plate against the back of the shock tower structure and the bolt ends didn't hit the shocks, them bolts never broke again nor did they ever get loose again, I drove it that way for over 12 years. Now keep in mind that this is my work truck I am talking about, I haul a trailer that weighs 2000lbs, at the time my truck weighed 3400lbs, and I would put over 2000lbs of wet moss in the back of my truck, that is 7400lbs or more sometimes, it's 5400lbs minimum all the time, this is why I need good brakes, in about 2008 I put 1990 Nissan hardbody V6 dual piston caliper disc brakes on the truck. The reason I wrote all this is because the stretching of grade 5 bolts is not good, it means they can get loose which is a bad thing in my opinion on upper control arms as they move around, and the more they move the more they stretch, and one day they break, but again this is my work truck which I have hauled stupid amounts of weight with 100s if not thousands of times over the years. 3 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, mainer311 said: To be honest, grade 5 is probably okay, and I feel like that's what a lot of these vehicles came with from the factory, but the cost delta is so little between the two, that I usually just replace them with 8's anyway. It's cheap peace of mind. There was an article in a restoration magazine a few years back that commented on the subject of GR8 vs GR5. One often overlooked difference between the two grades is the plating, not just the color, but the quality of the plating. GR8 bolts have a yellow zinc chromate plating which is vastly superior to the bright coating of GR5. I buy most of my generic hardware from https://www.mcmaster.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) I don't know if this matters now, but I figured out something on these heaters today, you see I am trying to clean up around here a little, since Crash got me thinking about heaters I figured I will get everything sorted out in the hear box bin/tub so I have 4 heater boxes, 4 motors of which 2 are small, 1 pancake type, and one large one that fits on the large pancake mounts, I have one good core right now and 2 that need repaired. OK I mentioned that the small motors don't really move a lot of air, well while I was getting all the fan cages together and I looked at my 720 motors/fan cages and seen they connected to the motor shaft(same size) the same way as the older ones do but the cages are slightly larger, so I tried mounting a 720 fan cage onto one of the small motor heater boxes, well the cage is taller also(sticks out farther/too far), I looked at everything and then figured out if I took the motor out of the inside of the heater box and I mounted it using the same small motor mount holes on the back outside the motor/shaft would be deeper in the heater box so that is what I did, I then mounted the fan cage onto the motor and it fit just right after bending the the inside fin on the housing just a little so the fan cage would not rub on it, it is really close, I put the cover on and powered it up, it is moving more air than any heater box I have ever seen so far, even more than the 720 heater motor with the small metal fan cage I that I modified the heater box housing to make it fit, I can feel the air coming out of the defroster ducts 4 feet away using the small motor. Here is the 720 fan cage installed on a small motor with a 720 motor/fan cage beside it. Here is the heater box(early/late box???) with the front cover in position and a 720 motor/fan cage and a smaller 521 fan cage next to it. Here is the back of the heater box with the small motor mounted on the outside, it does not stick out far enough to be an issue with mounting the heater box on the firewall. The small motor will need some kind of seal between it and the heater box which will make the air come out even faster, this is the best result I have had so far, and there are no modifications to be made except for maybe grinding a 1/16th" off where one of the core tubes hit the fin housing inside the heater box where I bent it slightly , it can be put back to the way it was, this cannot be done with the larger motors as they mount on legs inside the heater box. Here is the only mod I had to make because when I stuck the heater core in it bent the fin I bent out of the cage fans way back into the fan cage. It does not touch anymore. Edited January 17, 2020 by wayno 3 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Its definitely nice to have pieces and parts to compare.... I think I have to read that a few more times..... Wayno any chance you know or could measure the diameter of the motor shaft..... I found a place that just sells the cages... https://www.blowerwheel.com/ Seems that more fins would move more air... I hoped I might find a cage that was close to what I have.... 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) You have a photo of your broken fan cage to compare to what I have? I am not really all that good with measuring small stuff, I believe the shaft is 9/32", one of them tiny marks above a 1/4". Edited January 18, 2020 by wayno 2 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Yo man I got a heater from a 510 and if it’s the same you can have whatever you want from it. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just now, d.p said: Yo man I got a heater from a 510 and if it’s the same you can have whatever you want from it. Didn't we have this conversation before.... I know the heater core is different... I dont know if the fan and motor is similar... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, wayno said: You have a photo of your broken fan cage to compare to what I have? I am not really all that good with measuring small stuff, I believe the shaft is 9/32", one of them tiny marks above a 1/4". No not yet I was hoping to get it out this weekend but I might be snow blowing in my spare time instead..... I know the motor is the smaller pancake one.... and the fan looks like the one you called the 521 cage... this one.... 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 I don't think chromate is used much anymore except for very specialized applications do to toxicity/pollution. It's just yellow zinc. Higher grades are going to be less likely to break when removing, also. 2 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 OK, with that tool I measured with I could not get it down to 1/4" when measuring the shaft, nor could I get it to stop at 1/4" when measuring the inside, but I looked at that site you posted a link to and they have no 9/32" bores, so I just took a regular tape measure and measured the inside of the hole across and it appears to be a 1/4" bore, it certainly isn't 5/16". I looked a little at that site and there is another variable, the fan cage is offset by a 1/2", I have what you need but it will not fit in a small flat rate box, I have never broke a fan cage so I suspect I can afford sell one, PM me if you are interested. 1 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Crashtd420 said: Didn't we have this conversation before.... I know the heater core is different... I dont know if the fan and motor is similar... maybe? 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 14 hours ago, thisismatt said: I don't think chromate is used much anymore except for very specialized applications do to toxicity/pollution. It's just yellow zinc. Higher grades are going to be less likely to break when removing, also. Still listed with zinc chromate on McMaster-Carr. 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Still listed with zinc chromate on McMaster-Carr. Yeah, I guess it's mostly the hexavalent chromate that used to be used more often and is being somewhat phased out. I imagine the current processes are not as good as the old stuff 😉 2 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 This what you are looking for? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303120155347 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 13 hours ago, d.p said: This what you are looking for? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303120155347 Sort of.... I paid that much for an entire heater box assembly but got screwed.... Try to work out a deal between Charlie or Daniel for some spare parts. 1 Quote Link to comment
Charlie69 Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 I will try to get the motor tested tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Got a little time in the garage tonight.... drained the coolant so I can pull the heater core again.... And started removing the carburetor so I can get the intake off...... New control arm bolts showed up ... While cleaning up and organizing the things I need to do I found a sticker with some parts I had purchased from mikeklotz ... had to get it on the truck..... 2 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Can you even see out of that back window? Pretty soon going to be like Ace Ventura but in reverse. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I can actually see fine out of it while driving.... I do tend to open it when I go to back up so I can see better..... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Funny thing is I had to drive 2 cars home like that before.... My 1st car the hood latch broke and the hood came up flat against my windshield doing about 40..... had to stick my head out to see and then listen for the gravel as i pulled to the side of the road.... Other time i rolled my convertible on the highway and i could barely see through the window any more..... it landed on its wheels so I drove it 5 miles home..... 1 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Crashtd420 said: Other time i rolled my convertible on the highway and i could barely see through the window any more..... it landed on its wheels so I drove it 5 miles home..... Holy crap. Rolled a vert and lived to tell about it. 1 Quote Link to comment
d.p Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Crashtd420 said: Funny thing is I had to drive 2 cars home like that before.... My 1st car the hood latch broke and the hood came up flat against my windshield doing about 40..... had to stick my head out to see and then listen for the gravel as i pulled to the side of the road.... Other time i rolled my convertible on the highway and i could barely see through the window any more..... it landed on its wheels so I drove it 5 miles home..... lol 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, mainer311 said: Holy crap. Rolled a vert and lived to tell about it. Yup.. I had a mid 90s chevy z24 cavalier. my dumb as fell asleep at the wheel with cruise control on doing 70.. oops..... i took 4 staples in the head other than that i walk away ..... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I woke up driving in the grassy center part of the highway..... I remember seeing the trailer of a semi truck as I was trying to correct myself and thought I dont wanna hit that.... so I cut the wheel harder to avoid it, hoping to just end up on the other side of the highway spun out.... well when the car got parallel to the road... the driverside wheels grabbed the pavement and over she went..... 1 Quote Link to comment
BrothersGarage Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: I woke up driving in the grassy center part of the highway..... I remember seeing the trailer of a semi truck as I was trying to correct myself and thought I dont wanna hit that.... so I cut the wheel harder to avoid it, hoping to just end up on the other side of the highway spun out.... well when the car got parallel to the road... the driverside wheels grabbed the pavement and over she went..... I gotta say, that's about the worst way I've heard to wake up from a nap! 2 Quote Link to comment
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