wheel width vs tire width and driveability

[TheBirdistheWord]

Function is not relative. Your perception of it might be but in reality function either works (functional) or it doesn't (dysfunctional)  Read again, I said "When form is excessive to the point of interfering with function..... Whacked out camber" not some small stock amount which is needed. I completely understand that tires riding on the edge don't grip as well as flat when braking. So what the hell are you saying? that mad camber is better? I don't think so. So what's left to bitch about?? No one, who knows what they are doing, does this to increase their braking or their handling. They distort the functionality/safety of their car to be rebellious attention seekers. No one who respects themselves or their car does this.

 

This is a cry, both for attention and for help...

 

Painting some weird color logos, dragging a teddy bear on a rope behind it, or strange body add on,s or a 30 foot antenna to be rebellious.... I don't care. I don't have to be seen in it so knock your self out.

So, my perception is distorted, while your perception of function is the gold standard?  I havent mentioned anything about how much camber I am going to drive on, or about any specific body work other than flares  So, indeed, what are we talking about here...... Certainly a far cry from my original question, have I hit a nerve?  No one is bitching, a heated discussion no doubt.  Blowing the example out of perspective for the sole purpose of catering to your argument is not a good look my man.  I appreciate your opinion about respect for cars, its wrong but I appreciate it none the less.   

 

You asked for a culture lesson when you self righteously stated "I strongly recommend a google search for it, even if just to observe and accept another form of culture rather than "thats dumb because it's not what 510 guys do, MURICA!"  

 

Your post clearly states wheel width vs tire width and "DRIVABILITY" aka FUNCTION, and you give everyone shit for suggesting you should go with narrower wheels? WTF...

 

This sounds like a rebel looking for a cause to me. 

Nope, I sure didnt.  I responded to the crowds feedback.  A popular saying comes to mind when you mention self righteousness, "When in rome, do as the romans do."  I didnt ask about narrower wheels, because I have them, and I have had the chance to use many different combinations on them.  I have very few questions about narrower wheels, If its self righteous to dismiss unwanted opinions and simply request applicable responses than thats me!

[Lockleaf]

Actually, the assumption that no one on here had any idea what bozo was, together with the assumption that we are all ignorant hics shouting murica! whilst we work on our JAPANESE cars is why self righteousness has been mentioned repeatedly.

 

Neither of those assumptions has anything to do with dismissing unwanted opinions

 

As my father once told me, "I understand Auschwitz, that doesn't mean I have to like it"

 

Ratsun is a lovely place full of opinionated curmudgeons. You can always not respond to commentary and simply continue your factual discussion of the topic at hand. This place takes a thick skin to survive, but there is more concentrated datsun knowledge here than anywhere else, so it's worth it to take a few blows.

 

So, you have asked how tire width vs rim width affects driveablity. You have also told us you want to run flares and wide rims. What sizes are you considering (rim and tire)? And what do you mean by driveablity? What concerns do you have about your plans that leads you to ask the question in the first place?

[datzenmike]

So, my perception is distorted, while your perception of function is the gold standard?  I havent mentioned anything about how much camber I am going to drive on, or about any specific body work other than flares  So, indeed, what are we talking about here...... Certainly a far cry from my original question, have I hit a nerve?  No one is bitching, a heated discussion no doubt.  Blowing the example out of perspective for the sole purpose of catering to your argument is not a good look my man.  I appreciate your opinion about respect for cars, its wrong but I appreciate it none the less.   

 

 

 

Yeah I would say your perception of what I wrote is wrong. I said "whacked out camber" and you lecture me that incremental changes in camber can improve traction and handling. Does your car / will your car have "whacked out camber" then??? Geez talk about hitting a nerve, over react much? In addition  I didn't say your perception was distorted I said your perception of function might be distorted.

 

 

This is not blowing the example out of proportion with regards to 'whacked out camber.' This is tame in comparison to some out there.

 

 

 I stand by these statements....

Well I care. When form is excessive to the point of interfering with function. For example but not restricted to... whacked out camber tires that extend the stopping distance or cause loss of control in real world driving situations.  Otherwise I don't care how little you respect yourself or your car.

 

To be clear... if you are riding or plan to ride on the edges of your tires for a look, you are a fool. Actually worse than a fool because you endanger others. If you have added half a degree of camber to aid or improve the handling then why are you even commenting about my original post. Was it because of Paradime and Lockleaf's somewhat negative comments so you thought mine was too??? Perhaps a third example of your distorted perception???

[paradime]

Sorry BITW I'll step down off my internet etiquette soap box and respond to this...

 

"I am curious as to if I can install them as they are currently, with no ill effects, if I keep my tire size in check.  I plan to use 185s for the front and 205s for the rear, when I mentioned this to a drift clique I hang with they said it was going to be doomsday for my handling and ride characteristics.  I dont plan on drifting or pushing the car on my "new" $2k+ wheels, but Id still like to have some safe spirited fun at any given time."

 

I'll be up front, I have no idea what stretching tires 2.5" onto wide -6 offset front rims will do to your handling. No disrespect for the esthetics, but I'd suggest a bit wider tire to keep those rims and your behind safe. That being said, your suspension set up ie lowering, slotted rear cross member, bump steer spacers, camber plates, etc; all those variable will effect your ability to "have some safe spirited fun at any given time".  In my experience with the 510's suspension, lowering it will have the biggest ill effect on handling. There are ways of dealing with that, but as you know, adjustability cost $. I would imagine, your best shot at drivability will be keeping those tires as flat on the ground as you can. It will be a matter of sacrificing one for the other, stance vs performance.

 

esthetic > function

 

[TheBirdistheWord]

Read title / original question. It was specifically about a 2.5 inch difference from front to rear wheels and relative tire size choices.  Not "whacked out camber," not fan boys, not stance, not drifting, not even antiquated views on what functional art is. Once I mentioned wide wheels, flares, and a drift clique everyone assumed I knew dick about what I was doing...... then started lecturing about some other shit. 

 

Haters gonna hate.

 

What started as a casual inquiry snowballed pretty quick.  really a moot point all together.  I have 14x10 -32 RS Watanabes for the rear and I just bought a set of 14x9 -13 SSR MK-2s for the front.  I will be using a set of used 205 60 14 proxies that I picked up for a steel. 

 

thank you to everyone who decided to lend applicable information!

[Dolomite]

I'm going to assume you don't know dick because the only way to fit 10" wide rears is herra frushy styre...that, and you're planning on "spirited" driving on used tires. My guess to why people are thinking you're a dumbass is you keep posting dumbass stuff. There's a saying "if you run into an asshole, you run into an asshole. If everyone you run into is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole." You seem to think no one here knows what they're talking about, maybe...just maybe, you are the ill informed one.

[That4doorKiD]

195 45 on a 15x9 is sexy af

[That4doorKiD]

175 55/60 is usually the max tire size for hella flush on a 14 whel

[That4doorKiD]

what tires are you gonna find past 185/14's that look good on a 510?

[Lockleaf]

175 55/60 is usually the max tire size for hella flush on a 14 whel

Wouldn't this be based on rim width? What does it being a 14 inch diameter have to do with it? The stretch would be identical on any (for example) 8 inch wide rim, be it 14, 15, 16, 17 or 35 inch.

[datzenmike]

Read title / original question. It was specifically about a 2.5 inch difference from front to rear wheels and relative tire size choices.  Not "whacked out camber," not fan boys, not stance, not drifting, not even antiquated views on what functional art is. Once I mentioned wide wheels, flares, and a drift clique everyone assumed I knew dick about what I was doing...... then started lecturing about some other shit. 

 

Haters gonna hate.

 

What started as a casual inquiry snowballed pretty quick.  really a moot point all together.  I have 14x10 -32 RS Watanabes for the rear and I just bought a set of 14x9 -13 SSR MK-2s for the front.  I will be using a set of used 205 60 14 proxies that I picked up for a steel. 

 

thank you to everyone who decided to lend applicable information!

 

WOW. Read my first 4 posts on page one. They are totally about your title. Now just read my post #21. It was directed at Lockleaf not you...

 

Again, function is relative.  Grip level can be tuned for different surfaces and atmospheres by using incremental camber changes.  just because you dont understand it, doesnt make it wrong.  Who are you to dictate what is respect for a car or a person?  Dont let your post count go to your head hotshot.  

 

.....so you have no reason to be butt hurt and make it personal by lecturing me about understanding camber. I didn't think you were building a 'camber mobile' before but now I wonder. As for respect, anyone that would do this to their car deserves none.

 

[TheBirdistheWord]

I'm going to assume you don't know dick because the only way to fit 10" wide rears is herra frushy styre...that, and you're planning on "spirited" driving on used tires. My guess to why people are thinking you're a dumbass is you keep posting dumbass stuff. There's a saying "if you run into an asshole, you run into an asshole. If everyone you run into is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole." You seem to think no one here knows what they're talking about, maybe...just maybe, you are the ill informed one.

 

I said I was going to be running flares, custom fit at that.  A mighty fine dose of racism flying over from your direction.  Does that make you feel better about yourself?  Tires are finite, you have to get new ones from time to time right? I am installing cheap sticky tires because i am excited to use my $2k+ investment, fuck me right? Thanks for the concern, ill be using proper tires when I push the car.  kthx.   Who said anything about people being assholes except you?  I was looking for anecdotal information, not a bunch of fiery antiquated opinions.  You seem to have an abundance of the latter.  

 

WOW. Read my first 4 posts on page one. They are totally about your title. Now just read my post #21. It was directed at Lockleaf not you...

 

 

.....so you have no reason to be butt hurt and make it personal by lecturing me about understanding camber. I didn't think you were building a 'camber mobile' before but now I wonder. As for respect, anyone that would do this to their car deserves none.

 

 

Your first post STARTED, literally the first thing you said, was flaming the wheel size and the aesthetic of using two different sets of wheels......  and the 3 after that were spent reinforcing your disgust with the idea.   In my response to your first post, I clearly stated I was more concerned about the difference in wheel width and I would square the tire width if recommended.  I was also very respectful of your opinion despite your unwarranted criticism.    Just stop now, I would say while youre ahead, but that hasnt happened yet. I like how you skated over my question challenging your authority on respect for cars.. Cmon now, anyone who thinks someone looses respect because of how they treat their inanimate, material object is a fucking tool.    Kick rocks, schools out now. 

[Lockleaf]

question: are the negative effects of a 2.5 inch difference in width between front and rear wheels mitigated if tires size is kept under a 20mm difference?

 

thanks for any input!

I still don't understand what your concerns are. What negative effects? Staggered width is not intrinsically negative. It's actually superior in some types of racing.

 

What type of serious driving are you planning? If you are planning to drive around town, just playing a bit, it doesn't really matter. It will matter more and more the harder you try to find the ragged edge, and if you're drag racing, autocrossing, drifting, or some other form of racing. Each of those will require different setups to be optimal.

 

What are your concerns, with regard to what type driving?

[That4doorKiD]

Wouldn't this be based on rim width? What does it being a 14 inch diameter have to do with it? The stretch would be identical on any (for example) 8 inch wide rim, be it 14, 15, 16, 17 or 35 inch.

yes rim width,what sizes do they sell over 175 BUT under a usable ratio under 60....that's the max size typically. anything after that what I'm saying is too extreme

[paradime]

BITW  "question: are the negative effects of a 2.5 inch difference in width between front and rear wheels mitigated if tires size is kept under a 20mm difference?

thanks for any input!" 

 

I run an asymmetric tire setup on my autocross 510. 15X7" +25 offset rims with 195 7" front and 205 8" rear filling every inch of space on the stock fenders and it works great for me. That being said, the entire suspension is tuned for a specific ride hight and type of racing. Even then, steering that thing at low speed is a serious fucking workout. I really don't think your tire size is what's going present an issue, but that much of a shift in tracking width opens a whole other can of unknown variables.

 

Rick O-Donnell built a nice wide body 510 with 8" front and 10" rear that drive well, but suffers from bump steer issues. Adjusting the caster forward diminishes bump steer, but makes the wheel much heavier too. With a track width 5" wider than intended, the steering gear gets put under much more stress which also amplifies all road feedback to the wheel. What might be a little bump steer wobble on a stock width car becomes a very scary yank on a wide body. If you want anything near drivability, everything in the suspension has to be RCH fine tuned for it to work right. 

[datzenmike]

I see no sense in 10" rims if you don't fill them with 9-10" wide tires. I think the 510 looks just fine with sensible 8 or 9" rims (or less even) and tires. But this is just me. Running narrower tires on the front assumes slightly less traction than the rears and would tend to under steer when pushed hard. Am I reading this right? you are having two different makes of rims on the car?????? WTF?

 

 

185 and 205 is meaningless unless you include the 75, 70, 60 or 50. The 510 uses a tire about 23"-23.5" diameter so you don't want a 14" tire that is taller as it upsets the looks, performance and the speedometer.

 

A 205/75R14 is going to be over 26" tall and 8" wide on a 10" rim????? well not so good 

 

A 205/60R14 is also 8" wide but 23.5" tall and very close to the 510's original tire size. Wider rim needs wide tire....

 

A 225/50R14 is 22.86" and 8.8" wide. Almost 9" tire on a 10" rim will look better.

A 235/50R14 is 23.25" and 9.25" wide

 

 

Fronts I don't think you want larger diameter tires in the back and short in the front. It will start to look like a AA fuel dragster.

 

A 170/70R14  is 23.37" tall and 6.7" wide. This gives a 2.5" difference in tire widths front to back and still the same relative diameter to the original 5:60 X 13 tires that came on it.

 

 

I have no idea if these tire sizes are available.

 

Hardly flaming. If 10" rims you should have 10" tires/flairs. No one runs two different makes of rims on their cars by choice for the very reasons I gave in a later post....

 

 

You talk about the aesthetic of narrow fronts and fat rears, and I can understand flairs for a certain look but run different style rims on both???? It will look like you pulled them from a dumpster or couldn't afford to make it look right. Unfinished or borrowed.

 

No objection to the different size just not running 7" on a 10" rim. It will look like a failed stretch tire. Wider rims need wider tires or really, what's the point?

 

 

Flaming? disgust?? Hardly.

 

 

Your first post STARTED, literally the first thing you said, was flaming the wheel size and the aesthetic of using two different sets of wheels......  and the 3 after that were spent reinforcing your disgust with the idea.   In my response to your first post, I clearly stated I was more concerned about the difference in wheel width and I would square the tire width if recommended.  I was also very respectful of your opinion despite your unwarranted criticism.    Just stop now, I would say while youre ahead, but that hasnt happened yet. I like how you skated over my question challenging your authority on respect for cars.. Cmon now, anyone who thinks someone looses respect because of how they treat their inanimate, material object is a fucking tool.    Kick rocks, schools out now. 

 

You're kidding right?  Your car is an extension of yourself and the first thing people see. If it looks foolish, unfinished, awkward... by extension, so are you. Show some respect for your dime. Maybe you missed the part about respect so here it is again...

 

 

.....so you have no reason to be butt hurt and make it personal by lecturing me about understanding camber. I didn't think you were building a 'camber mobile' before but now I wonder. As for respect, anyone that would do this to their car deserves none.

 

 

It's a fashion accessory.

[Dolomite]

I said I was going to be running flares, custom fit at that. A mighty fine dose of racism flying over from your direction. Does that make you feel better about yourself? Tires are finite, you have to get new ones from time to time right? I am installing cheap sticky tires because i am excited to use my $2k+ investment, fuck me right? Thanks for the concern, ill be using proper tires when I push the car. kthx. Who said anything about people being assholes except you? I was looking for anecdotal information, not a bunch of fiery antiquated opinions. You seem to have an abundance of the latter.

 

I'm guessing you're either a kid or you rode the short bus to school. Reading comprehension obviously isn't your strong point, you can't seem to understand multiple posts from people with the answers you asked for. The asshole saying was in reference to your accusations about multiple people having a lack of knowledge, this is literally the first time I've had to explain that saying. Your racism comment now makes you the asshole you thought I was calling you, search herra frush...ratsun is evidently filled with racists by the amount of times it comes up...except for the fact it's obviously tongue in cheek. You need thicker skin to last around here, the butthurt is too strong in you. In my time here there's been too many threads asking a question when the OP should have posted "please tell me what I want to hear".

[Dolomite]

Hardly flaming. If 10" rims you should have 10" tires/flairs. No one runs two different makes of rims on their cars by choice for the very reasons I gave in a later post....    Flaming? disgust?? Hardly.   You're kidding right?  Your car is an extension of yourself and the first thing people see. If it looks foolish, unfinished, awkward... by extension, so are you. Show some respect for your dime. Maybe you missed the part about respect so here it is again...  It's a fashion accessory.

I didn't read this before I posted, you said it all, much more nicely than I did. I'm thinking he's gonna put box flares on the rear and bre flares on the front to complete the dumpster diver aesthetic.

[datzenmike]

I think 9", with a lot of work (thinking/planning) is about maximum you can go without flairs, but back spacing is critical. So you should be able to get up to about a 9" rim and tire without flairs.

 

Now I'm not a fan of flairs, because one... it's one way and not easily reversed.... and two..  it upsets the cars looks, but some times all you can do is put flairs on it to get the tire width you want.... and it's a quick cover for rotten wheel wells. So if you run flairs, you best have a solid reason, like 10" rims.... a perfect example of form, (flairs and the need for them) follows function... (larger rims and tires)  A set of 6" or 7" rims and tires needing flairs just means you didn't do your homework and are making the car fit the rims rather than the other way round..... OR you are going for a 'look'.

 

Wider rears and narrower fronts... why not? Cars during the muscle car era ran wider rims on the back all the time. But they needed the extra traction. A little pretentious on a dime perhaps.

 

 

 

It's your canvas....

[datsunfreak]

 No one runs two different makes of rims on their cars by choice 

 

Believe it or not, it's reasonably popular in Japan, mostly amongst the drifting crowd. And amongst those who want to at least look like they are a part of said crowd. 

 

 

 

[datsunfreak]

Also wouldn't be the first to do it on a 510 either...

 

[TheBirdistheWord]

 

Hardly flaming. If 10" rims you should have 10" tires/flairs. No one runs two different makes of rims on their cars by choice for the very reasons I gave in a later post....

 

 

 

 

Flaming? disgust?? Hardly.

 

 

 

You're kidding right?  Your car is an extension of yourself and the first thing people see. If it looks foolish, unfinished, awkward... by extension, so are you. Show some respect for your dime. Maybe you missed the part about respect so here it is again...

 

 

 

 

It's a fashion accessory.

quoting your own opinion, doesnt reinforce your opinion lol.  I cant speak for you as you seem to think you can for me, but the first thing people see on me is my sweet baby blues.  If youre getting flack for your dime not being "on point" enough from new acquaintances, maybe consider the company you keep?  I am sorry you dont agree with the adjectives I used, insert anything that fits for you, its clear malintent was present.  Looks like datsunfreak had more patience than me, just because you havent seen, or you dont understand it, does not make it wrong.    

 

I am rubber your glue, whatever you say to me...........  thats about where we are at now.  Seems to me your internet ego is too big to fail, I am done.  feel free to use this thread to fluff your post count as much as youd like. 

 

I'm guessing you're either a kid or you rode the short bus to school. Reading comprehension obviously isn't your strong point, you can't seem to understand multiple posts from people with the answers you asked for. The asshole saying was in reference to your accusations about multiple people having a lack of knowledge, this is literally the first time I've had to explain that saying. Your racism comment now makes you the asshole you thought I was calling you, search herra frush...ratsun is evidently filled with racists by the amount of times it comes up...except for the fact it's obviously tongue in cheek. You need thicker skin to last around here, the butthurt is too strong in you. In my time here there's been too many threads asking a question when the OP should have posted "please tell me what I want to hear".

Oh, I am sorry I cant follow the scattered subtext and obscure references on a internet forum.  If everyone jumped off a bridge does that mean you will too?  Its ok to make racist and now derogatory statements because everyone else does???!!!  Butthurt? Stop projecting, and get a fucking grip on reality.  Ill say it again, I wasnt asking for anyones opinion how wide of wheel they felt to be appropriate on a dime.  I gave very specifics parameters in my inquiry, and the peanut gallery is telling me I am wrong for modifying my car they way I want to instead of responding to my question.  I give NO fucks, absolutely 0 of what you think of me or my car.  I highly doubt you would be as snarky if we were face to face, troll. 

 

 

Believe it or not, it's reasonably popular in Japan, mostly amongst the drifting crowd. And amongst those who want to at least look like they are a part of said crowd. 

 

 

 

 

Thank you sir, I couldnt even muster up enough respect for them to do this.  

[Lockleaf]

So......

 

I still don't understand what your concerns are. What negative effects? Staggered width is not intrinsically negative. It's actually superior in some types of racing.

 

What type of serious driving are you planning? If you are planning to drive around town, just playing a bit, it doesn't really matter. It will matter more and more the harder you try to find the ragged edge, and if you're drag racing, autocrossing, drifting, or some other form of racing. Each of those will require different setups to be optimal.

 

What are your concerns, with regard to what type driving?

[datsunfreak]

Looks like datsunfreak had more patience than me, just because you havent seen, or you dont understand it, does not make it wrong.    

 

I do have more patience than most, see below...   ^_^

 

 

I wasnt asking for anyones opinion how wide of wheel they felt to be appropriate on a dime.  I gave very specifics parameters in my inquiry, and the peanut gallery is telling me I am wrong for modifying my car they way I want to instead of responding to my question.

 

This happens a lot. I try to catch these threads when I can. Because whether I like what you're doing or not, I'll still tell you how to do it.   :thumbup:

 

I know way too much about wheel fitment for most of these cars from firsthand experience. I think any Datsun you can name built between '68 and '82, I have owned at least one of them. And checked/done the max wheel fit on all of them.   :rofl:

[datzenmike]

Your first post STARTED, literally the first thing you said, was flaming the wheel size and the aesthetic of using two different sets of wheels......  and the 3 after that were spent reinforcing your disgust with the idea.   In my response to your first post, I clearly stated I was more concerned about the difference in wheel width and I would square the tire width if recommended.  I was also very respectful of your opinion despite your unwarranted criticism.    Just stop now, I would say while youre ahead, but that hasnt happened yet.

quoting your own opinion, doesnt reinforce your opinion lol. I cant speak for you as you seem to think you can for me, but the first thing people see on me is my sweet baby blues. If youre getting flack for your dime not being "on point" enough from new acquaintances, maybe consider the company you keep? I am sorry you dont agree with the adjectives I used, insert anything that fits for you, its clear malintent was present. Looks like datsunfreak had more patience than me, just because you havent seen, or you dont understand it, does not make it wrong.

 

I am rubber your glue, whatever you say to me........... thats about where we are at now. Seems to me your internet ego is too big to fail, I am done. feel free to use this thread to fluff your post count as much as youd like.

 

My quote was to show you how wrong you are, but I guess you didn't re-read it. Just like you didn't bother to read my profile to see if I even own a 510.... So thanks for the comment about the company I keep. Before you do this however, lookup the definition of "flaming" also. Now, show me where I flamed you in my first post. Here it is yet again....

 

I see no sense in 10" rims if you don't fill them with 9-10" wide tires. I think the 510 looks just fine with sensible 8 or 9" rims (or less even) and tires. But this is just me. Running narrower tires on the front assumes slightly less traction than the rears and would tend to under steer when pushed hard. Am I reading this right? you are having two different makes of rims on the car?????? WTF?

 

 

185 and 205 is meaningless unless you include the 75, 70, 60 or 50. The 510 uses a tire about 23"-23.5" diameter so you don't want a 14" tire that is taller as it upsets the looks, performance and the speedometer.

 

A 205/75R14 is going to be over 26" tall and 8" wide on a 10" rim????? well not so good

 

A 205/60R14 is also 8" wide but 23.5" tall and very close to the 510's original tire size. Wider rim needs wide tire....

 

A 225/50R14 is 22.86" and 8.8" wide. Almost 9" tire on a 10" rim will look better.

A 235/50R14 is 23.25" and 9.25" wide

 

 

Fronts I don't think you want larger diameter tires in the back and short in the front. It will start to look like a AA fuel dragster.

 

A 170/70R14  is 23.37" tall and 6.7" wide. This gives a 2.5" difference in tire widths front to back and still the same relative diameter to the original 5:60 X 13 tires that came on it.

 

 

I have no idea if these tire sizes are available.

 

 

 

I like how you skated over my question challenging your authority on respect for cars.. Cmon now, anyone who thinks someone looses respect because of how they treat their inanimate, material object is a fucking tool.    Kick rocks, schools out now.

 

Your Datsun is just an inanimate material object to you???? Really???? Congratulations ..... you've managed to tell all Datsun owners and all Ratsun members that they are fucking tools. Awesome. This goes a long way towards understanding all your butt hurt replies over nothing..

 

Start a poll and ask every Datsun owner here the following YES / NO, question. ...

 

Would you loose respect / have less respect, for someone that had no respect for their Datsun? Invariably the answer will be .... yes.

 

Now..... schools out.