Max's 1986 Nissan 720 King Cab 4x4: "Big Bird"

[Madkaw]

I’m presuming you pulled the oil pan. captain is correct, I would mount head and get your chain aligned with the timing cover off so you can verify chain installation .

Install cylinder head, then timing chain, then timing cover and finally oil pan.

I wonder if the tool from the L 6 would work

[captain720]

Pulling out pan is not necessary, you just have to get a new gasket and splice in a bit of new gasket with a touch of RTV that you can borrow from a Chevy guy as they buy it in 5 gallon cans :).

 

I have done these chains with pan in and pan off makes very little difference but I always make sure and stick in a bit of rag to ensure that nothing falls in the oil pan as that would be bad!

[Madkaw]

I know some guys in the L world will loosen the oil pan bolts enough to slide timing cover in without tearing up the gasket.

[captain720]

I know some guys in the L world will loosen the oil pan bolts enough to slide timing cover in without tearing up the gasket.

Yes I always try to do that way first.

[captain720]

I know some guys in the L world will loosen the oil pan bolts enough to slide timing cover in without tearing up the gasket.

Yes I always try to do that way first.

 

But it doesn't always work with the higher mileage gaskets

[MaxChlan]

Wait hold on, not to be rude but why would you put on the timing parts before the head? I have never done it that way because it creates the difficulty you are speaking off. If you put the head on, then the timing parts, then the timing cover, then the manifolds. It all works out super easy. Also just get new bolts from the hardware store.

I said the same thing as I was reading the FSM, but that's the way it said to do it. My thought was that if I put the head on first it would fuck up the head gasket in the front as the head connects over the timing cover.

[Lockleaf]

That's why you lower the oil pan, to provide clearance for the cover to go in without damaging the head gasket.

[MaxChlan]

Yeah, fuck that block of wood. It ended up expanding and getting stuck, so we went with the backup plan: Take as many bolts out of the oil pan as possible without putting the engine, removing the timing cover, and so on. Anyway, the head is on, as well as the timing gear. Getting closer to having Big Bird back in the rotation. 

 

 

 

 

 

In other news, for all the RB engines in these 240sx missiles at the shop, an actual Skyline showed up   :w00t:

 

 

For those who have been curious as to what I've been driving for the last few months, here she is: a 1984 Porsche 944 (non turbo  :yawn:), affectionately named "the $900 Porsche". 

 

[MaxChlan]

Fellas, I am having an issue getting my truck running, and after some troubleshooting I think that my ignition timing is off with the rest of the engine. I put the engine at TDC, and attempted to put the arm of the rotor in the correct position but I think I was off a fair amount, as no amount of adjustment of the cap helped. Could someone post a picture of what the rotor looks like at TDC? 

[datzenmike]

Set TDC,  with exhaust cam lobe down at about 8 o'clock and intake at 4 as viewed from the front.

 

Take the two distributor pedestal mount bolts out and lift distributor out.

 

This what you should see if the oil pump/distributor drive spindle is in correctly...

 

 

This should place the rotor tips at about 9 and 4 o'clock as viewed form the driver's fender.

[MaxChlan]

Perfect! Thanks Mike. If I am right and the distributor is out of time, what is the best way to spin it independently of the oil pump? The last few times I've removed the oil pump and used a long flathead screwdriver to spin it, but I feel like there's got to be an easier way.

[MaxChlan]

Alright, so still no luck here with getting it started. I believe it is still an ignition timing issue. I did some troubleshooting procedures as follows:

 

Fuel is at the proper level in carb

All 8 plugs have spark 

Air cleaner is off 

With the engine at TDC:

  -Aligned the rotor so that E1 spark plug would be firing 

  -Reinstalled oil pump and ensured that rotor stayed in place (the shaft if firmly seated in the distributor)

  -New oil in 

  -Vacuum lines were either blocked off of in their correct spots (including vacuum advance) 

 

When I crank the engine, its mostly backfire out of the top of the carb. Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[datzenmike]

 .

 

6 hours ago, MaxChlan said:

Perfect! Thanks Mike. If I am right and the distributor is out of time, what is the best way to spin it independently of the oil pump? The last few times I've removed the oil pump and used a long flathead screwdriver to spin it, but I feel like there's got to be an easier way.

 

If the oil pump and spindle are out, just turn the rotor. But this is backwards.

 

Take the distributor out and take a look at spindle top. Spindle should look like the picture I last posted. Note there is a small and a large half moon. Be sure small half moon is to the front. Just reset the spindle position to get 11:28 and the distributor will only go in one way and the top rotor should be very close to Intake 1 or near 9 o'clock and the lower rotor to Exhaust 1 near 4 o'clock.

 

 

There are 8 plug wires so very easy to get at least two swapped.

[MaxChlan]

After doing some digging in my 86 FSM and I found this image:

 

 

The text above it seems to indicate that this is what the rotor should look like when the engine is at TDC, but that doesn't seem seem like what you're telling me. 

It seems like one of two things is happening: 

  1. My cap is wrong (could be a possibility, since the cap that was on the truck when I parked it was actually cracked and I replaced it with one the previous owner gave me when he sold it to me, even though I checked that they were identical I could have been mistaken).

  2. I'm setting the timing too late, I.E, the burn is finishing just as the power-stroke should be beginning.

 

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of what it currently looks like because honestly I was pretty frustrated, and when frustration happens bad shit happens (like dropping the rubber half moon down the timing cover ?).

 

[datzenmike]

The arrow with FRONT marked looks like 9 o'clock to me. There are two rotor tips the outer one (Intake) is at 9 and the inner (Exhaust) is at  4 o'clock.

 

Caps can only go on in one position.

 

 

My finger is on Intake 1 and my thumb is on exhaust 1.

 

 

Set TDC using the crank pulley timing mark. Pull distributor and look. If drive spindle is 11:28 then the distributor can't help but go in and be correct.

[Charlie69]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

The arrow with FRONT marked looks like 9 o'clock to me. There are two rotor tips the outer one (Intake) is at 9 and the inner (Exhaust) is at  4 o'clock.

 

Caps can only go on in one position.

My finger is on Intake 1 and my thumb is on exhaust 1.

 

Set TDC using the crank pulley timing mark. Pull distributor and look. If drive spindle is 11:28 then the distributor can't help but go in and be correct.

It looks like to me that your finger in the picture above is on E2 and your thumb is on Intake 4.

The lettering closest to the tower is what the tower is.

 

Also the cap only will go on the distributor in one direction but the distributor can go in in many different positions in which each position the distributor is installed in will change what tower on the cap is actually #1 cylinder spark plug.

 

There have been times in the past when I set a distributor in wrong and did not have time to get it set correctly so I just used which ever tower on the cap the rotor pointed to at top dead center on compression stroke and wired all other cap towers accordingly.

 

 

Here are clearer pictures to work with Mike.

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Charlie69

[datzenmike]

I think you may be right. It's still 9 and 4 just turn the cap.

[MaxChlan]

It's.... Alive! Of course, the ignition timing still isn't quite right. This is with the cap twisted as far as it will go clockwise, so I think the distributor moved when I put the oil pump back in. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by MaxChlan

[MaxChlan]

So, here's a mini-conclusion about my time replacing the head gasket, timing components, water pump, and other bits. I'd like to preface this with a quick thank you to all who answered my questions; it helped tremendously. 

 

Things are always difficult the first time you do them; from taking off different accessories to setting an engine on TDC, it can be very difficult to keep track of everything you're doing. To those who have more experience than me working on vehicles, I'm sure doing a head gasket on a Z24 would be fairly straightforward. So this dialogue is more geared towards those who (like me) do not have the experience. 

 

One of the best pieces of advice I can give when doing this procedure is to take more pictures; more than you may think you need. This is especially important when it comes to the vacuum lines on the stock Hitachi carburetor, because it really is a fucking mess. My suggestion is to take pieces of painter's tape and number different hoses on both sides of a coupling point, so when you remove it you have a better chance of finding where everything goes. On the notion of documentation, pay particular attention to where each length of bolt on the timing cover goes, as there are multiple lengths due to the fact that some bolts also hold brackets for the power steering pump and accessory belt tensioner, while others go through the water pump, and some simply go into the timing cover itself. My advice would be to take a picture and either print it out so you can write which length goes where, or use a mobile application (like iPhone Markup) to write notes on the picture digitally. This will save you the headache of breaking bolts off in the block (I broke at least two), which obviously is a time-killer. Putting various bolts in little plastic bags and labeling the bags (and how much is supposed to be in them) makes looking for things much easier. 

 

On the notion of replacing components: conventional wisdom dictates that the best replacement is the OEM one. I used an OEM head gasket, water pump, water pump gasket, head bolts, intake gasket, exhaust gasket, oil pump gasket, and so on.  Where there is no OEM replacement, find parts that are made in Japan. The biggest piece that I can think of is the timing kit I used. I used a timing kit from OSK (I'll look for the part number later). I ordered my parts from the Nissan Parts USA website through my local Nissan dealer (Walser Nissan in Burnsville). You pay more, but in my opinion it is worth it. 

 

Now onto the actual procedure:

 

I found the FSM to be mildly helpful; my suggestion would be to print or type up a procedure for yourself using the FSM as a guide. If there is anything you do not know how to do, consult Youtube to get a rough idea on how to do it. The most challenging part for me was removing the timing cover, and particularly the procedure for doing so. My recommendation is to put the engine at TDC before removing the timing cover (which involves removing the oil pump to access a bolt on the bottom). This will help ensure that your distributor is in time with the engine on assembly, so you do not have the fiasco I had of removing the oil pump about six times to set the timing. After removing the timing cover, mark the chain and both sprockets for removal of the chain. I made three marks on the chain, camshaft sprocket, and crankshaft sprocket to ensure that I had the orientation correct. After this, have no fear in removing the components. It took me a half hour just to remove the timing components because I was very nervous. In the same token, don't feel like you need to do it fast. Take your time, measure three times and cut once. 

 

Once the timing assembly is removed, my recommendation is to take the intake manifold and head off as one unit (the bottom bolts of the intake are almost impossible to access or crack loose). Once the head is off, take it to a local machine shop and have it leveled. For me, this helps with the peace of mind. 

 

Assembly was much easier than removal of all the components. My biggest recommendation is to take the stupid rubber half-moon off the front of the head until you have literally everything done aside from installing the valve cover. I dropped the half moon in twice, and one time resulted in me having to completely remove the front cover again. In addition, place a rag inside the hole to block any other things from falling in (like a screw or socket). Better safe than sorry; slap a spot of RTV on the half moon when you put the valve cover on and it shouldn't fall off again. 

 

That is about it for this conclusion. Here's where I'm at now:

 

Last night, I removed the snow tires from the truck and put my summer tires back on (in August, lol). The engine is a little down on power (thanks in part to old gas, and needing to set the hot valve lash as well as fine tune the ignition timing) but it seems to drive okay. Looking into the future, I have brakes for all four corners on the way because the brakes are pretty bad at this point. The rears drag a lot, and I believe the passenger front brake is pretty worn down. I also have an exhaust leak which is a simple fix.

 

I have one question regarding the rear drums: where is the best place to get the self-adjustment device? It seems like the kits I ordered do not come with one, and Google searches have been fruitless. 

 

That's all for now; unfortunately the truck is greasy and gross so no pictures yet. Look for some in the future! I hope this little conclusion was informative and mildly entertaining. 

[MaxChlan]

Quick little project I did last night. After cleaning off the air cleaner when I did the head gasket I noticed that without all the grease and oil it looked like shit. A little high temperature rattle can action fixed that. 

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

[seattle smitty]

Just found this;  great thread, Max, and the rest of you.

Two minor comments on stuff that was covered a page or two back.  First, having pried and fought and cursed to remove an old radiator hose that has welded itself on,  when you install the new hose, smear a thin layer of old-fashioned Permatex #2 or Permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket (brushes on) around the hose mounting surface before sliding on and clamping the hose.  Not only does this old-timey black goop seal up any pits, but it makes the hose a lot easier to remove if you ever have to do it again.

Second, as to the water pumps with the good cast impellors and the new style ones with the less efficient stamped-steel impellors,  the late racing mechanic Smokey Yunick said years ago that IF all you can get is the stamped kind, you can improve their pumping efficiency greatly by making a thin sheetmetal disc and epoxying it to the back side of the stamped impellor.  Obviously, if you make this disc as one-piece, you have to pull the impellor to epoxy it.

Fun thread.  Good looking truck.

[bottomwatcher]

Nice write up on the trials and tribulations of dealing with these old motors. The best part is you suggest quality component's yes you can get cheaper parts but they will bite you in the ass down the road. The Naps z is a very reliable motor as long as you address the head gasket issue, other than that they will run forever with proper maintenance. I read all the time folks wishing for more power from this engine but there is none. Keep it stock and maintained and it won't let you down. Now this is coming from a KA swap guy if you are not in for a lot of heartache with a swap stick with the bone stock dead nuts reliability of the naps z. Thanks for the effort showing the what you went through to keep the truck on the road.

 

[MaxChlan]

Fellas, I quick little update on the happenings of the fall with Big Bird:

 

After the aforementioned head gasket story, I've had mild success with keeping this truck road-worthy. My passenger side caliper failed, causing some weird wear on the rotors and uneven pad wear. After driving without front brakes for a week, I decided to try my hand at replacing the rotors. It wasn't too bad; I had an experienced mechanic take one hub assembly off, and I did the other one and reassembled. I had to trim a few tabs on the pads and of course make a few trips to the parts store, but overall it was successful. Then my brake master failed; after ordering the wrong part and then getting the correct one (as well as a leaky heater core hose that almost blew my engine up), I was back on the road... for two days. Then the alternator regulator crapped, causing the alternator to supply 18+ volts. Obviously not driveable, so I ordered the reman replacement. Last night I installed it, but instead of a 10 minute job it turned into 1.5 hours as the new alternator had a different style plug on it. It's only been 24 hours, but so far no issues have arisen. 

 

What's next on the docket? Most likely a Weber swap. Once my cash flow is right, I will order the kit from Pierce Manifolds. The reason? My gas mileage is terrible, and getting the truck to run right when it's cold is somewhat of a battle. The fast idle screw was removed before I got the truck, and I'm sure there is something not right with the carburetor or many of the vacuum lines and diaphragms that haven't been touched in 30 years. I'm thinking it just seems like the right thing to do at this point, because the ease of operation of the Weber pales in comparison to the Hitachi. If anyone is in the market for a California-spec carburetor with all the fixings, send me a PM. That will certainly change my timeline if I can mitigate some of the cost of the Weber swap. 

 

That's all for now!

Edited November 29, 2018 by MaxChlan

[datzenmike]

You probably got a Hardbody alternator. The plug changed in '86.5 just after the last 720. 

[MaxChlan]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

You probably got a Hardbody alternator. The plug changed in '86.5 just after the last 720. 

That's what I figured... I always tell the parts guy that I have an '85 so that I don't have that issue, but the computer listed the part numbers as the same for the hardbody and the 720. If I put in an '84 it gives me the alternator with the correct plug. This mistake shouldn't have a noticeable effect, right? I already cut the old plug off so... ?

Edited November 29, 2018 by MaxChlan