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Edz280zx

Moving to Cali.....smog Q's

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1 hour ago, thisismatt said:

 

Follow the $$$.  Shocking, but I agree with Z-train here entirely.  Why does anything matter besides what comes out the pipe, if it's not about control and money?  Next is pay by the mile taxation.  Conveniently, they'll have to track your vehicle's every movement for this, and Californians will gladly give up their privacy.

 

 

Reagan believed it mattered what comes out of the tail pipe. That's why he enacted California's own smog standard and Nixon agreed to let him. Trying to suggest there's been no benefit from enforcing emission standards and that doing so is all about money and control is your theory, but throwing VMT into the argument is pure demagoguery. There are reasons why the Federal Clean Air Act, and the California Clean Air Resources Board were created. We got our act together and did something to mitigate air pollution. Have you seen what Mexico City, Beijing and Delhi has to breath in 2018?

 

43241929225_fd0a778784_z.jpg

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/babies-in-mexico-city-show-signs-of-alzheimers-blame-air-pollution

 

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http://www.ejinsight.com/20151202-beijing-issues-rare-triple-orange-warning-air-quality/

 

43241929405_703d4bce8f_z.jpg

 

ttps://www.livemint.com/Politics/59mo6b3al9iTMYoYRXxopL/Supreme-Court-clears-action-plan-to-tackle-air-pollution-in.html

 

 

Thats what freedom from pollution control looks like. 

 

 

 

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I didn't say it was only about the money, but the leeches will do anything to line the coffers...

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Emission controls are there so you can have more cars on the road. More cars = more money income to the state. geez....

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Am I reading you right? You're choosing a government financial conspiracy theory, and blaming Californians for choosing to live here for a bunch of other reasons that override their cars? (Didn't you just move back to CA? ;)

 

Anyone can have a criticism (to their advantage of the Ca system) to justify keeping / not paying the smog maint price for their luxury collectible car on top of owning a daily driver or two or three for their household. But nobody comes up with a real CA smog program solution that doesn't strip the program of their source of funding that makes the program work. (Then there are the gov't financial genius's who rob Peter's program to pay (fund) Paul's program. But that's a whole 'nother" story, and sounds like what you're talking about Matt. )  

 

 I'm with DZM on:

 Interstate commerce isn't 'driven' by old Datsuns. 99.99999% of cars on the road are less than 10 years old, the rest are diesel trucks. Only vintage car collectors give a shit.

 

If you have a Datsun, it has all the emissions equipment on it. Easy as pie to keep that equipment in working order. The trouble is that people don't know what their emissions system does, or how it does it. This in turn leads to fear and suspicion of it and an adversarial relationship with the laws. If there was a 'reasonable fee for non compliant vehicles' everyone would pay it and drive around with a blue cloud behind them.

 

If you buy a Datsun you should know enough to not buy one that has missing/broken equipment. You should pay much less for it and fix it.

 

I don't have the answers either. I just have a wee bit of insight to the old CA smog system,  know about government red tape and their bureaucracy, their resistance to change. I hear people's paranoia about government "launch" every time they're upset about not getting their way for their issue or splinter group. I  do it too initially. When I ask questions how folks know their conspiracy theory is true... most don't know enough about how that government sector works before launching their personal hate campaign.

 

If someone actually comes up with a workable solution that continues to push the retirement of real DD  gross poluters, one that doesn't allow rogues testers to cheat the system (as grossly done in the past,) and doesn't punish the car collectors for having a collectible car (or in many cases multiple collectible cars {luxury items: boat, swimming pool, expensive cars, etc.) ...

 

You could be the next grass roots candidate for making major CA change, & or be the idea man for one. Either I would think it way it would pay really really well.

 

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I love California as an geographic standpoint, absolutely despise it's government and pitty the people who are so self-absorbed in their world that can't see what their elected officials have done to them, it's almost like stockholm syndrome!

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I live in CA, in one of the most stupid liberal/progressive areas to boot. I don't have a problem with air quality laws. But just like a lot of other laws, they've been morphed into revenue generators for the state and for lobbied interests. You haven't addressed the point about why not a sniffer test, hell with the rest?

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Who knew a nearly 2 and half year old thread was just a tinderbox waiting to catch on fire like a CA hillside...

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You who? 

 

I don’t have any answers to this. 

 

Go go ahead and see if you can sell that “sniffer, and to hell with the rest" idea. I’d really like to see it In place.

 

I just think it’s too late in the game to successfully launch it on its own merit, by itself. What’s the motivation for the system to change? There’s no revenue in it to even pay for changing the system. As DZM pointed out, your idea is for the <1% of the cars on the road (and many part-time or non-oped at that.)

 

Find a way to make the world cleaner w/o threatening their budget, or make them more $ yet...and you’ll get your idea put in place. Otherwise there’s just no getting anybody in power on board to help you put it in motion. Sad but true. Most all gov’ts and Corp systems work that way. 

Edited by Seeker > 620 KC
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7 hours ago, thisismatt said:

I live in CA, in one of the most stupid liberal/progressive areas to boot. I don't have a problem with air quality laws. But just like a lot of other laws, they've been morphed into revenue generators for the state and for lobbied interests. You haven't addressed the point about why not a sniffer test, hell with the rest?

 

California is corrupt, it has crazy strict emissions laws, and it's liberal, but you knew that before moving here. It's the same as buying a 1976 Datsun with an engine swap in a state you know won't let you register it. You can complain about Santa Barbara all you want, but you're the fool who bought that money pit.

 

I dispute that auto emissions enforcement is a corrupt revenue generator for the state. When you consider the billions being pulled down by auto sales tax, registration fees, and gas tax, although it's a total PITA, smog checks are small potatoes. As long as your car works right, it's $35 for the smog certificate once every two years. The rest goes to the shop owner. If the car doesn't pass it can cost an ass load, but the state doesn't get any of that money. You pay more than 3X that every year to register your car, but no outrage there? Let's not even go into the corporate rape know as auto insurance in this F'n shithole... oops I mean paradice. Yes it was intentional. ?

 

In Japan they made it simple, instead of smogging cars, they chop them in half after 40k miles. It's a way to keep the country's auto technology current, and a thinly vailed Government subsidy for their auto industry. Keep that in mind next time the state is sticking a probe up your tailpipe and maybe it won't be as much of a PITA. 

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They don't chop them in half but they do make it expensive to operate an older vehicle in Japan. This is why they export the low mileage drive trains.

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On 8/15/2018 at 4:09 PM, Edz280zx said:

Figured I would update this since I've been here two years already...lol. The Z passed smog with all of it's original equipment. Since it is a federal car it does not require a catalytic and only needs to conform to the federal guidelines not California. This also means that I can legally install a header as long as it has the EGR installed. Also found that you can replace the fuel injection system as long as it is listed as a "replacement" for that particular vehicle. This means that the FAST f.i. sold by ZCarDepot as a replacement system should be legal...results may vary I would hazard a guess. Anyways, that's my update for now.

ya' see why when it comes to Cal you don't update,.....

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2 hours ago, paradime said:

 

California is corrupt, it has crazy strict emissions laws, and it's liberal, but you knew that before moving here. It's the same as buying a 1976 Datsun with an engine swap in a state you know won't let you register it. You can complain about Santa Barbara all you want, but you're the fool who bought that money pit.

 

I dispute that auto emissions enforcement is a corrupt revenue generator for the state. When you consider the billions being pulled down by auto sales tax, registration fees, and gas tax, although it's a total PITA, smog checks are small potatoes. As long as your car works right, it's $35 for the smog certificate once every two years. The rest goes to the shop owner. If the car doesn't pass it can cost an ass load, but the state doesn't get any of that money. You pay more than 3X that every year to register your car, but no outrage there? Let's not even go into the corporate rape know as auto insurance in this F'n shithole... oops I mean paradice. Yes it was intentional. ?

 

In Japan they made it simple, instead of smogging cars, they chop them in half after 40k miles. It's a way to keep the country's auto technology current, and a thinly vailed Government subsidy for their auto industry. Keep that in mind next time the state is sticking a probe up your tailpipe and maybe it won't be as much of a PITA. 

My family moved to CA when I was 3. 36 now. It used to be a lot better place to live. My schools growing up were great, now we will probably home school our kids (my 4yo can probably out-read a sixth grader). You don't have to preach to me about the sad state of affairs in CA - a state I was once proud to be a part of.

 

Anyways, the smog conversation was about a sniffer test, which would simplify testing across the board and would treat all vehicles the same. They wouldn't even have to exempt older vehicles if they just stuck to the emissions.

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I think its been mentioned already... but Ill just throw it in here for reference.

 

I registered my 71 510 with a carb'ed KA swap in Cali about a year ago (prior it was registered in CT). Being older then 75 there was no smog check. All I had to do was drive it to the DMV for them to verify the VIN. No questions about the swap at all... although technically the swap was not Cali legal as I removed all the smog equipment from the KA to run carbs on it. If someone really wanted to be a dick they could have sent me to a STAR facility where it would have failed inspection.... but the DMV people did not care.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, demo243 said:

I think its been mentioned already... but Ill just throw it in here for reference.

 

I registered my 71 510 with a carb'ed KA swap in Cali about a year ago (prior it was registered in CT). Being older then 75 there was no smog check. All I had to do was drive it to the DMV for them to verify the VIN. No questions about the swap at all... although technically the swap was not Cali legal as I removed all the smog equipment from the KA to run carbs on it. If someone really wanted to be a dick they could have sent me to a STAR facility where it would have failed inspection.... but the DMV people did not care.

 

 

 

It appears you slid through the cracks due to an uninterested DMV person, and weren't a victim to the standard rules and regs. I would hazard to say that is not the typical experience of someone trying to register a motor swapped vehicle.

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10 minutes ago, Seeker > 620 KC said:

 

It appears you slid through the cracks due to an uninterested DMV person, and weren't a victim to the standard rules and regs. I would hazard to say that is not the typical experience of someone trying to register a motor swapped vehicle.

 

The guy definitely didn't know what he was looking at... but he did comment on how much work I must have done in the engine bay.

 

This was in the bay area at the Daly City DMV if it makes a difference.

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12 hours ago, Rjawm said:

Who knew a nearly 2 and half year old thread was just a tinderbox waiting to catch on fire like a CA hillside...

...

To help dampen and summarize this thread's flames that I helped fan long after the issue was already dead...as Rjawm so keenly pointed out ;)

 

"The question is when I move to California in July (Redlands area) will I have to get a catalytic converter or anything else?  I've found one site that says that if it passes the sniffer, I don't have to.  Just wondered if anyone had any experience with this."

 

Ed got his question answered by the DMV a couple years ago by getting his new title and reg, due to his smog tech passing his 280zx.   He didn't have to add any additional CA smog equipment to pass CA smog for title and reg change. He was only required to have the all the Federal smog equipment his Z originally came with. If the federal requirements included a CAT he would need one to pass smog. In his case it was not Federally required and he did not have to have one.

 

Same rule applied to my Federal 200SX, but my Federal Oregon car originally came with a CAT, so a CAT was required for my SX in order to pass CA smog.

 

Or if he were really creative/crafty/ bending the rules, he could have searched out a "who cares" smog tester or a rebel smog tester who might have signed off on the visual CAT verification that a CAT was installed on the car, when in actuality there wasn't one. But that would not be the typical experience for out-of-state smog to CA smog, nor help preventing smog.  

 

Edited by Seeker > 620 KC
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I'll interject a little here. The "official" process for transferring an out of state vehicle into California is listed here: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/checklists/outofstate

From what I can tell, all the DMV inspection consists of is verifying the VIN#. Technically they could care less what engine was in it as long as you have the smog certificate if it is needed. I also found this document extremely interesting: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

Particularly this section:

Non-Catalytic Converter Equipped Vehicles

Headers for non-catalyst equipped vehicles are considered legal replacement parts as long the replacement header allows for the installation of all smog control equipment originally attached to the stock exhaust manifold. Depending on the vehicle, some of the equipment that would normally be attached to the exhaust manifold includes:

  • Air Injectors

     

  • Heat Shields for the Thermostatic Air Cleaner

     

  • Heat Risers

     

  • EGR System Hookups

     

  • Fuel Evaporation Systems

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My brother and I just imported a 92 Skyline GT-R to Oregon and had no issues registering it there. Trying to do the same in Cali would have been a $8000 - $10,000 process. Had we imported a 1972 Skyline GT-R we could have walked it through registration no questions asked. The stupid thing is, the turbo EFI  R32 runs cleaner than the NA side draft 2.0L. California's shit is all so fucking arbitrary, it's impossible to respect.

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6 hours ago, thisismatt said:

My family moved to CA when I was 3. 36 now. It used to be a lot better place to live. My schools growing up were great, now we will probably home school our kids (my 4yo can probably out-read a sixth grader). You don't have to preach to me about the sad state of affairs in CA - a state I was once proud to be a part of.

 

Anyways, the smog conversation was about a sniffer test, which would simplify testing across the board and would treat all vehicles the same. They wouldn't even have to exempt older vehicles if they just stuck to the emissions.

 

My mistake Matt, I saw this 

 

"Didn't read all that, but I brought my 521 into CA about 7-1/2 years ago and did not have to smog it. Just a VIN verification at the DMV. Done. Also, smog testing is bi-annual, not yearly."

 

and assumed you and the truck came together.

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7 hours ago, datzenmike said:

They don't chop them in half but they do make it expensive to operate an older vehicle in Japan. This is why they export the low mileage drive trains.

 

Hyperbole, not literal. Shaken Law makes CARB look like a free for all.  

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                             I've also wondered why they don't aggresively  go after people 

who register cars out of state,or refuse to get CA plates when they move there.

              OTOH,if they did,they'd have to find a way to spend the windfall.

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1 hour ago, paradime said:

My brother and I just imported a 92 Skyline GT-R to Oregon and had no issues registering it there. Trying to do the same in Cali would have been a $8000 - $10,000 process. Had we imported a 1972 Skyline GT-R we could have walked it through registration no questions asked. The stupid thing is, the turbo EFI  R32 runs cleaner than the NA side draft 2.0L. California's shit is all so fucking arbitrary, it's impossible to respect.

See, we do agree.

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On 8/16/2018 at 8:02 PM, Z-train said:

Semantics. Az isn't a shithole. The people's republik of Kalifornia on the other hand is. And SMOGGING here is only required when you LIVE in Pima Or Maricopa counties. And Pima dropped all smogging of MC's and classic cars.

Arizona is NOT a shithole it's a hellhole.How's the weather this time of year ? tired of the brutal heat yet ? 

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17 hours ago, angliagt said:

 

                             I've also wondered why they don't aggresively  go after people 

who register cars out of state,or refuse to get CA plates when they move there.

              OTOH,if they did,they'd have to find a way to spend the windfall.

 

They do, my Sister and Brother in-law drove down to SD North County area last Winter for the holidays and got pulled over after two weeks by a cop that have seen their vehicle and for the past week and a half, he asked if they are living or visiting and let them go when he got the answer, IMHO that was an illegal stop and I know they do it because I've experienced it myself and know from others that had this happen.

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