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B110 - Lowering the front


Coda

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Hey Y'all. 

I'm looking for some thoughts on my suspension setup. My build thread is here if interested.

First off, I have read everything I can get my hands on about this subject (on Ratsun and at the 1200 wiki site).

Here's my dilemma: 

I want to use these wheels, from 86ish 200SX.  I like them because the sit flush with the fenders. They are 15X6 ET 30. They fit fine in the back with 3 inch blocks and the plan is for a 195/50/15 tire:

12790960_1109421275777150_87302147556105

 With 280ZX rear rotors on the front with Pulsar brake adapters, I have <some> clearance:

IMG_5944_zpsnxkbok1e.jpg

I've run other cars with as little without issue. Here's the problem - once I put rubber on the front, there will be little to no room for moving the perch down:

IMG_5941_zps5qd1gyn6.jpg

Here's MY thought - I'll chop three inches out of the tube above the perch and use VW inserts. Then I can cut a couple coils off the springs to bring my height down:

IMG_5942_zpsmfygu0bf.jpg

 

If i am able to keep the strut travel, but reduce my spring height, will it absolutely ride horribly? I am not wanting to change to stanza struts, because they would push the wheels out past the fenders and I don't want to run flares.

I'm sure I'm missing something...

I'm open to other options...Even considered having the front wheels narrowed 1.5 inches.  That should give me clearance to lower the perch, but I really don't want to run staggered sizes.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

 

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Here's MY thought - I'll chop three inches out of the tube above the perch and use VW inserts. Then I can cut a couple coils off the springs to bring my height down:

 

Check the diameter of the VW inserts. The 1200 uses a strut tube that is a smaller diameter than any other Datsun. 

 

 

 

If i am able to keep the strut travel, but reduce my spring height, will it absolutely ride horribly?

 

It could bottom out without stiffer springs being introduced, yes. A 240Z/280Z uses the same diameter springs as I recall, and is a wee bit stiffer.

 

 

I am not wanting to change to stanza struts, because they would push the wheels out past the fenders and I don't want to run flares.

I'm sure I'm missing something...
I'm open to other options...

 

Other options that are more sensible (although you already bought the big brake kit), include switching to a complete B310 (79-83 210) front suspension. This nets you beefier control arms, TC rods, struts, brakes, etc. Those brakes would be somewhat comparable to the "big brake kit" you have now. 

 

Bigger brakes and a lower ride height requires using the B310 LCAs, TC rods, ball joints, steering knuckles, and tie rods, but with 280ZX struts and brakes. This nets you HUGE brakes (for a 1200) and narrows your track compared to the 1200 struts. As a side bonus the 280ZX strut tube is already quite a bit shorter than any others. 

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That rim has too much positive offset +30 is too much.

 

With stock struts and fenders, 1200s like a lot of offset. Usually at least +25. 

 

 

In fact the simplest option would be to just get the later stock studs that are 10mm longer, then get some 5mm spacers.   :rofl:

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Hey Y'all. 

I'm looking for some thoughts on my suspension setup. My build thread is here if interested.

First off, I have read everything I can get my hands on about this subject (on Ratsun and at the 1200 wiki site).

Here's my dilemma: 

I want to use these wheels, from 86ish 200SX.  I like them because the sit flush with the fenders. They are 15X6 ET 30. They fit fine in the back with 3 inch blocks and the plan is for a 195/50/15 tire:

 

 With 280ZX rear rotors on the front with Pulsar brake adapters, I have <some> clearance:

 

I've run other cars with as little without issue. Here's the problem - once I put rubber on the front, there will be little to no room for moving the perch down

 

 

Or...

 

Easy solution to the second problem also. Do not buy a 195/50-15. :rofl:

 

It is way too tall for a 1200 anyway. If you're intent on running these wheels, get some 195/45-15 tires. That gives you more room to move the perch down, and they'll look a LOT better on the car.   :thumbup:

 

 

Also know that when you're done, you'll have to trim the front fender opening just behind the bumper. Otherwise when you turn, you'll bend the crap out of it. 

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A 6:00 x 12 tire is about 6.5" wide and 21" tall.

 

1/ A 195/50R15 tire is going to be 22.68" or 1.7" taller. This will make he car think you dropped from a 3.90 down to a 3.6 ratio differential and you will loose acceleration performance and speedo is out 4 MPH. Not to mention a car ascetically designed fender and 12 " rim and 21 " tire will look donk with a 15" rim and 22.68" tire.

 

2/ In addition it's 7.68" wide or 1.68" wider than the 6" rim, with 0.84" over per side. As you have very little strut clearance to begin with and you say the rim is flush with the fender this could be a disaster.

 

 

The solution, if sticking with those rims is to get a 165/50R15 that is 6.5" wide (only 1/4" wider than the rim or about flush with the outer edge) and only 21.5" tall or a 170/45R15 that is 6.7" wide (1/3" wider per side than the rim) and 21" wide.

 

The less tall tire will also give you more room to drop the bottom perch. About dropping the perch....

 

Lowered cars are still going to have the same suspension travel over the same dip or bump in the road at the same speed. It only makes sense to increase the spring rate and make it firmer to resist movement. Most car springs are way too soft anyway from the factory. This is a compromise to comfort for the most people who would buy a1200. Doesn't mean it's perfect for you. An interesting thing about a coil spring is... the shorter you make it the stiffer it gets. Keep in mind that you should NEVER set your ride height by cutting a spring. When you get really low the spring can often be extremely stiff and worthless. Judicious cutting of the coil spring can sometimes provide a firmer ride and yet be too low, requiring the lower perch to even be raised slightly.

 

When ready, remove the spring and carefully (accurately) measure the thickness of the steel wire. Measure the outside to outside diameter and the total number of free coils. Start where the coil leaves the bottom and meets the top but leave out the flattened coil at top and bottom. Just the ones that will move. From this info the spring rate can be calculated easily and a new rate worked out and how much to cut away to achieve it. I worked my 710 coils out to about 100 pounds per inch (lb/in) and to increase by 50% (a very conservative amount) I removed about 1.5 coils. (yours will be different) this gives me a firm ride that is passable for comfort and the car does not bottom.The ride height is set by split collars. The worse thing is to guess and cut too much... you can't put it back.

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The solution, if sticking with those rims is to get a 165/50R15 that is 6.5" wide (only 1/4" wider than the rim or about flush with the outer edge) and only 21.5" tall or a 170/45R15 that is 6.7" wide (1/3" wider per side than the rim) and 21" wide.

 

But those would seriously be like rubber bands. I have 21' tires on my 14" wheels and they are already a fairly low profile...

 

But I do appreciate the head's up. Didn't know those sizes were actually available...   ^_^

 

http://www.tires-easy.com/achilles-atr-k-economist/165-50-R15/tirecode/ACHI0251516550VXL

 

But soooooooooooo tiny...

 

8.0-165-50-R15-Federal-Formoza-4.jpg

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I used Koni yellow 1st gen MR2 rear struts in the cut down stock struts but also went coilover. I mean if you are going to the extreme of shortening you struts, may as well go coilover. Not too many short insert options for stock 1200 struts.

 

I have the Boge MR2 inserts in mine as well. Only thing that would fit in the casing...   ^_^

 

And I concur with the coilover option.  :thumbup:

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But those would seriously be like rubber bands. I have 21' tires on my 14" wheels and they are already a fairly low profile...

 

But I do appreciate the head's up. Didn't know those sizes were actually available...   ^_^

 

http://www.tires-easy.com/achilles-atr-k-economist/165-50-R15/tirecode/ACHI0251516550VXL

 

But soooooooooooo tiny...

 

8.0-165-50-R15-Federal-Formoza-4.jpg

 

Well that's the problem with falling in love outside of one's own species. It don't fit.

 

13s don't look bad where 12s were, even 14s ... maybe. 15s is pushing it. There are 21 inch rims today with an inch of tire, ... isn't there? a 21" rim is the same height as a stock 1200 tire and rim. These are 'Ol School' with 12" rims and 21" tall tires with 4.5" rubber top and bottom. If you run 15" rims you get 3.25" of rubber or 'rubber bands'. It is what it is. 

 

Coda... If you like the rims (nothing wrong with this) you will have to deal with making this work just like marrying into another culture.  

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Thanks for the insightful replies. I do want to use the wheels  (because I have them and I'm on a budget) so, I'm prepared to do what I have to do to make them work (I dig the culture analogy). I think the 165/50 might be the ticket. Coil-overs sound like a huge expense, Ill research that and see if I can find the funds.

Thanks again!

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Thanks for the insightful replies. I do want to use the wheels  (because I have them and I'm on a budget) 

 

I understand the budget thing. But "because I have it" is the absolute worst reason to do anything. If they are in good shape I'll gladly trade you some nice 14" D-slots for them.    ^_^

 

Then get some 185/55-14s for kinda low, or 165/55-14 for super low.   B)

 

Coil-overs sound like a huge expense, Ill research that and see if I can find the funds.

 

Versus using your stock springs, you're looking at spending maybe $140-150 if you don't use camber plates. $300ish if you do. 

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I understand the budget thing. But "because I have it" is the absolute worst reason to do anything. If they are in good shape I'll gladly trade you some nice 14" D-slots for them.    ^_^

 

Then get some 185/55-14s for kinda low, or 165/55-14 for super low.   B)

 

 

Versus using your stock springs, you're looking at spending maybe $140-150 if you don't use camber plates. $300ish if you do. 

 

You might have yourself a deal. I'll come out to the compound and we can chat.

 

I'm used to the world of Subaru coilovers, where a cheap set is a 1k bucks.  I'm down for 300 bucks. 

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I'm used to the world of Subaru coilovers, where a cheap set is a 1k bucks.  I'm down for 300 bucks. 

 

Well, you get some these for $40-60, then some of these for $80-100, then find some inserts you like, then you make that shit happen.  B)

 

It's what's on my car if you want to see how it looks/works. 

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You can probably get close, or at least closer to what you want, (lower) for about $25.

 

While coil over kits are great if you re-set your ride height twice a week, otherwise, once you have your height set, all that adjust ability is just money going for a ride.

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Well, you get some these for $40-60, then some of these for $80-100, then find some inserts you like, then you make that shit happen.  B)

 

It's what's on my car if you want to see how it looks/works. 

 

Thanks for the links - I forgot those guys were local (to us). I can't find any specifics on the collar set, though. All it lists is a part number.  Is this for sure the one that fits 1200 struts? Not that I don't trust your knowledge, but I do like to see data on the parts I order, just to help me sleep :)

 

You can probably get close, or at least closer to what you want, (lower) for about $25.

 

While coil over kits are great if you re-set your ride height twice a week, otherwise, once you have your height set, all that adjust ability is just money going for a ride.

 

I assume you are talking about split collars? I'm going to commit to a wheel and tire package and see where it all lands once I get the CA18ET in the car.

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techno toy tuning front coil over kit will work great 

not sure what other companies have them 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. These look like a pretty good deal. Similar to the Ground Control offering.

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I assume you are talking about split collars? I'm going to commit to a wheel and tire package and see where it all lands once I get the CA18ET in the car.

 

Yes. Rated at 6,000 pounds so each one would hold 3.3 B110s on top of it.

 

Find out what fits first. Don't end up in an unhappy marriage!

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Thanks for the links - I forgot those guys were local (to us). I can't find any specifics on the collar set, though. All it lists is a part number.  Is this for sure the one that fits 1200 struts? Not that I don't trust your knowledge, but I do like to see data on the parts I order, just to help me sleep 

 

Nothing fits a 1200 strut tube perfectly (because it's so tiny), but they will work. It's what's on my car right now. Ground Control collars are little better quality, just also a bit more spendy. 

 

But with one in southeast Dallas and one over here in Kennedale, I wouldn't order it online. Just go in the store and get it.  ^_^

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