E1/J13 Interchangeability with MG/Nash parts?

[yellowdatsun]

Wondering if anyone has personal experience with interchanging British MG/MGB/BMC A/B series engine, or Nash metropolitan parts, with the E1 and J13 engines? I know the E1 was a licensed copy of these engines, and I have compiled a list of the cars that came with the BMC engines, but was looking for firsthand interchangeability info.

 

Things like gaskets, intakes, alternators, starters, thermostats, water pumps, and the like.

 

A list of alternate parts sources for us would be a huge help to all when looking for parts for these old engines. Especially because MG parts are so much easier to find. More expensive, but at least they exist:)

[MikeRL411]

Wondering if anyone has personal experience with interchanging British MG/MGB/BMC A/B series engine, or Nash metropolitan parts, with the E1 and J13 engines? I know the E1 was a licensed copy of these engines, and I have compiled a list of the cars that came with the BMC engines, but was looking for firsthand interchangeability info.

 

Things like gaskets, intakes, alternators, starters, thermostats, water pumps, and the like.

 

A list of alternate parts sources for us would be a huge help to all when looking for parts for these old engines. Especially because MG parts are so much easier to find. More expensive, but at least they exist:)

 

The Nash Metropolitan has a complete MGA engine. I believe the rest of the drive train is also MGA but have no personal experience with it. I think [repeat think] that a MGA head gasket will interchange with the J13.

[nukeday]

I realize this is an old thread, but as I have two trucks, one E1 and one J13, this is of interest to me too. Yellowdatsun, I'd appreciate the list you've put together. I'm convinced the SU intake and dual exhaust from and MG will fit. The Sprite and Midget had an 1100 and 1300 respectively.

 

Here's an interesting link to SU carbs on those models: (the HS2 setup looks applicable)

http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/SUcarbs.htm

 

 

Here's some MG Midget stuff from ebay:

 

 

 

 

I've also looked at brakes, and front suspension interchange, but have not made much headway there. One of my elderly neighbors has a Midget, and I plan to pay him a visit soon and maybe even have him bring the car over to do some measuring and visual investigating. I'm curious if there is enough room around the fuel pump for the dual dump exhaust, and if the SU snorkels will clear the steering column.

Edited February 15, 2009 by nukeday

[MikeRL411]

When the FairLady 1500 first appeared in Japan it had a single SU intake and "banjo" air filter. It didn't take long for Japanese drivers and rally car drivers long to realize that the MG dual SU intake and air filter was a bolt on replacement. Since the steering column was on the right side there was no interference problem. You are on to something regarding more interchangeability of intake, exhaust and engine parts.

[ggzilla]

The E1 is second-generation from Austin design, so some parts may fit. But it is definitely not a copy, more like a redesign. The J-series is quite different.

 

Here is a Nissan-built Austin, 1953 model i think:

[MikeRL411]

While I was in Japan a friend of mine drove one of those Datsun built Austins. Very well built. The only difference he noted [when he had a flat tire] was that the Datsun version had metric wheel studs and nuts. He had an American 4 way tool, put a dime on the flats of the studs and changed his tire. His pronouncement was "Today I found out that I have metric nuts!"

[datzenmike]

The Sprite and Midget had an 1100 and 1300 respectively.

 

.

 

The Midget also started with a 948cc (950) motor which was upped in Oct '62 to 1098cc. (1,100) My best friend in high school had a '62 Midget with the 950 A motor but curiously it had roll up windows not the sliding ones. He used to go on about how only 50 were made with the old 950 motor but the new roll up windows. I don't know...

[pl521sss]

This is a good topic

 

Is J13 an upgraded version of E1 motor?

 

Thought there's several version of the E1 motor depending on the serial number.

 

Like to hear from the expert

[datsunaholic]

The E1 differences are mostly with how the oil filter and distributor drive bosses are configured, at least externally.

 

The J13 HEAD interchanges (boltwise) with the E1, and the pistons are identical. But the block is quite different inside. You CAN exchange the intakes between them.

 

The MGB intake bolts on, as does the exhaust... when the engine is on a stand. In a truck, they run straight into the steering shaft. There's simply no room to install them.

[pl521sss]

The E1 differences are mostly with how the oil filter and distributor drive bosses are configured, at least externally.

 

The J13 HEAD interchanges (boltwise) with the E1, and the pistons are identical. But the block is quite different inside. You CAN exchange the intakes between them.

 

The MGB intake bolts on, as does the exhaust... when the engine is on a stand. In a truck, they run straight into the steering shaft. There's simply no room to install them.

 

 

How about carburator, any differences on them?

Is there a better cylinder head that came with these motors?

Sort of the L16 with numerous cylinder head combo.

[yellowdatsun]

Man, what the heck, like no one responded when I first posted this, and now there's a flurry of activity.

 

As for the comments about the intakes and exhausts, they are correct, the dual SU style intakes won't clear the brake master cylinders, and the exhaust won't clear the steering.

 

It's an especially interesting topic for me because my GF has a 1959 Nash Metropolitan, so her engine looks identical to the engine in my 62' 312 Bluebird. Metropolitan parts are vastly easier to find, as is the MG stuff. As for the generators, and alternators, I haven't delved that far into it yet. A lot of the small normal gaskets do interchange though.

 

The Nash single barrel carb also is not a bolt on to the datsun intake manifold. Two problems arise, the Nash intake manifold won't work with the Datsun exhaust, and the angle on the intake is different so the carb wouldn't sit perfectly vertical even if the intake did fit.

[yellowdatsun]

But, with the bracket I made the carb does actually run on that engine *very* well. The nice thing about the nash carb is it's EXTREMELY simple in design, and parts are available. Unlike the original 312 carb.

[ppeters914]

Is there a better cylinder head that came with these motors? Sort of the L16 with numerous cylinder head combo.

Don't know for sure, but I've never seen any discussion that there were different heads for the E1 or J-series, so I'm gonna vote no.

 

Pete Peterson in San Jose (near you) has an RL411 and is a MG nut. He knows quite a bit, but isn't a Ratsun member nor visits/posts any more on the EarlyDatsunClub Yahoo Group. That said, I recall him posting a year or so ago about using MG heads on Nissan E (and J?) motors.

[family200]

Well, i have never done it, but the machinist where I took my engine told me that an MGB head would bolt on to the J-series block. He said you would have to grind some metal off of the head below the thermostat for some clearance issue.

 

I don't have any MGB stuff to compare it too, but I do have an MG Midget with the british A-series motor, and it is smaller than the J-series japanese stuff. The A-series was practically bored out to its limits for the 1295cc version in the Midget. The J-series was based off of the British B-series (or something real close to it) I think. The J-series was eventually bored out to at least a J16, and maybe bigger? I know the B-series was taken out to at least 1800cc in the MGB. The NAPA guy said that the j-series was an austin clone.

 

I tried using an MGB rear main seal on my J15 and it was a little too small. It didn't fill in the rope channel as well as I hoped it would. I ended up using the J15 seal.

[nukeday]

Here's a Nash 1500 intake/exhaust. Given the issues involved with the SU's and the dual dumps, I don't see why this would be advantageous for use on a Datsun engine. For the sake of our discussion, though: it looks like it will fit.

 

 

 

So, it looks like we should be concentrating on BMC B-series engines for interchange. BMC A-series engines are smaller based on family200's comment. It would sure be nice to get a midget, MGB, E1 and J series in the same place at the same time....

Edited February 20, 2009 by nukeday
difference between BMC A & B engines

[yellowdatsun]

Yep, the intake and exhaust will bolt onto the Datsun engine just fine, the problem is with some of the exhausts not clearing as they go down, and the SU intake won't clear the brake master.

[Daddyoethan]

OK....  who is RUNNING a J-13 or J-15 head on a 1800cc MGB engine.  I have a 1972 MGB 5 main engine, and an early J-13 engine.  Looking to put the mess into a 320 truck. 

 

I have a 1800 MGB engine with BW 35 automatice in my mom's Nash Metropolitan.   I would be great to get the extra hp with the 1800 and the stock look with the Datto head.   The J-13 is supposed to flow better.  

 

Thanks. 

 

 

[MikeRL411]

And then there were a few Hudson badged Metros.

[Datman74]

The E1 differences are mostly with how the oil filter and distributor drive bosses are configured, at least externally.

 

The J13 HEAD interchanges (boltwise) with the E1, and the pistons are identical. But the block is quite different inside. You CAN exchange the intakes between them.

 

The MGB intake bolts on, as does the exhaust... when the engine is on a stand. In a truck, they run straight into the steering shaft. There's simply no room to install them.

This interests me....everyone I speak to about getting my J13 rebuild says the pistons are NLA and $1K - $1.5K to get them made... then again, can't imagine the E1s are that easy to come by either

[datsun 521 ute]

Here are some pictures of an old E1 manifold I had laying around compared to an MG header and twin SU manifold I will be putting on my 521 J15. The Gasket is from the MG headers sitting on the E1 manifold.

 

So one of these heads will fit then?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wow-MGA-MGB-Alloy-MSX-Crossflow-Cylinder-Head-GT-/230620025005?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b20650ad&vxp=mtr

 

Datman here is a link to some pistons

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datsun-12010-B5101-75mm-73mm-Piston-1961-69-E1-J13-311-312-320-410-411-520-521-/380578331019?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item589c3c798b&vxp=mtr

[Pedro]

Guys just a thread revival. Unlikely anyone will know the answer, but here goes.

I'm trying to put a J15 (out of datsun 620 ute) into a 411 wagon I have (car came without motor, impossible to find J13 engine here), the sump is to big on the J15.

 

A friend has a E series sump from a Datsun 320 or 312 (sedan I'm hoping), does anyone know if the E series sump will bolt to a J series block?

Thanks

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I realize this is an old thread, but as I have two trucks, one E1 and one J13, this is of interest to me too. Yellowdatsun, I'd appreciate the list you've put together. I'm convinced the SU intake and dual exhaust from and MG will fit. The Sprite and Midget had an 1100 and 1300 respectively.

 

Here's an interesting link to SU carbs on those models: (the HS2 setup looks applicable)

http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/SUcarbs.htm

 

 

Here's some MG Midget stuff from ebay:

 

 

 

 

I've also looked at brakes, and front suspension interchange, but have not made much headway there. One of my elderly neighbors has a Midget, and I plan to pay him a visit soon and maybe even have him bring the car over to do some measuring and visual investigating. I'm curious if there is enough room around the fuel pump for the dual dump exhaust, and if the SU snorkels will clear the steering column.

The Sprites and Midgets used 948, 1098 and 1275 cc A series engines that are different from the B series MGA and MGB engines.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

But I do know that an intake from an MGB will bolt on to the E1 motor. I have a Canon DGV MGB intake that I have had bolted up to a 1200 head at one point.

[505plus5]

Good topic...

[emceefarlane]

Well, i have never done it, but the machinist where I took my engine told me that an MGB head would bolt on to the J-series block. He said you would have to grind some metal off of the head below the thermostat for some clearance issue.

 

Does that mean this head i took off a spare E1 motor i have is most likely an MGB one? Note the grind marks

 

 

The grind marks don't appear to be on the E1 head that's working in the car now.

 

Any way to differentiate the two? ie Jig Number Stamps etc?

 

Did i read somewhere the MGB head flows worse than the E1?

 

Thanks