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That4doorKiD

510 Dogleg 5 spd makes noise

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Currently in the process of putting the front cover on... again. I found which bolt interferes with what gear. I made this for future searches.

 

5B8762EA-73D9-4084-9E2F-D062B5218027_zps

 

When I put it together the first time, I didn't feel any dead stop, as in a bolt hitting that gear. Looking through the hole, the end of the bolt hits the side of the teeth. I turned the gear with the input shaft to make sure I did not damage the gear; I did not.

 

Did you forget to put the bearing shim back in?

Mike is right. The shim is roughly the same thickness as the paper gasket that would normally be there. I dry fitted the cover with no bolts, with and without the shim. The shim with no gasket makes the cover not sit flush, in my case.
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Front cover is installed with bolts torqued down. Problem bolt has an extra washer. Spins freely with no grinds!! :thumbup:

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The front cover bolts were not all the same length. Depending on the front cover, four of them were longer than the fifth one so if you get the bolts mixed up, that can be the trouble. Most of the front covers were thicker around the four holes and thinner around the lower hole.

 

Mixing and matching parts and 40 years of existence means some of the parts and hardware may have gotten swapped out or lost over time.

 

Also, since the holes are "wet", you need to put sealer (RTV, etc) on the threads or you will have a leaky front cover.

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The front cover bolts were not all the same length. Depending on the front cover, four of them were longer than the fifth one so if you get the bolts mixed up, that can be the trouble. Most of the front covers were thicker around the four holes and thinner around the lower hole.

 

Mixing and matching parts and 40 years of existence means some of the parts and hardware may have gotten swapped out or lost over time.

 

Also, since the holes are "wet", you need to put sealer (RTV, etc) on the threads or you will have a leaky front cover.

All my bolts were the same length.

 

I put the correct amount of fluid in it yesterday and am letting it sit to make sure there's no leaks. I'd hate to install it to find out I have to pull it out for a leak. There was enough sealer that got squished in the bolt holes from the first assembly that it'll probably be fine. Time will tell.

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The counter bearing sits above the surface of the front face of the transmission case. In other words when the case is slid onto the rest of the transmission the bearing sticks out slightly. The cover plate has a recess in it the diameter of the bearing and enough and slightly more for the bearing to stick out into it. The bearing has no support like this so the amount it is sticking out is measured and compared to a chart. A bearing that sticks out more, gets a thinner shim than a bearing that sticks out less. The idea is that when the cover plate is tightened down the top of the shim (stacked on the front of the bearing) is level with the front of the case around it and the cover plate supports the counter bearing but does not place a load on it.

 

Shims range from 0.024" for a bearing that barely sticks out 0.119"... to a 0.004" shim for a bearing that sticks out 0.138" (give or take)

 

The 0.004" thick gasket is likely figured in but not that critical.

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The removal of the gasket almost never requires a thinner shim. In fact, removing the gasket and using the original shim usually helps tighten everything up a bit. When the trans ages and things wear, this is not a bad thing.

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Seems like it would be leak if the cover couldn't sit flat. Even with gasket maker, there wouldn't be any real torque on the sealer.

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usually when this trans are run low on fluid they tend to scratch the bearing causing the noise.  The main input shaft bearing specially, also the rear counter shaft bearing is notorious for failing.  So more than likely they are both bad i tried to post pics but couldn't but if you take the front cover like the above pic and see any change in color in the metal then a rebuilt is at hand.  They are really simple to fix if you have a press or large bearing extractor.

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first, check the fluid level and fill if its low. mine made same noise and all it was, was the fluid.

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The end of the transmission does ride on a pilot bushing inside the crankshaft. When the clutch is engaged (peddal up) the crank and flywheel and clamped to the transmission input shaft and they turn together as one. Only way for the bushing to make noise is with the clutch disengaged with the engine turning and the transmission not.

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Mine doesn't make any noise anymore, it was the throw out bearing was bad added to no tranny fluid.

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Can't be the throw out bearing from your description

 

Put in a 5spd dogleg from a 200sx in to my 510. I drove it slowly on to the sidewalk, then we drove it on my Dad's trailer. While it was in gear, we were hearing this occasional

 

scratching sound. He was thinking it was the throw out bearing.

 

We put the stock TO bearing of the 200sx, and the fork. What could be wrong. It's not the gears grinding ps. We had very little tranny fluid what was left after dripped out, could it have been that.

 

It was assumed making noise 'in gear' means driving it. If 'in gear' and making noise then the clutch pedal must have been down placing a load on it. You would have noticed that when releasing the clutch in neutral, it would have been quieter. This would have been better information to pass on.

 

Nothing moves in the transmission when the clutch is down or disengaged but there is a load on the release bearing. The opposite is true when the clutch is released... transmission gears are spinning (even in neutral) and release bearing is not.

 

Clutch down=noise = release bearing (possibly pilot bushing)

Clutch up = transmission bearings or gears.

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Can't be the throw out bearing from your description

 

 

It was assumed making noise 'in gear' means driving it. If 'in gear' and making noise then the clutch pedal must have been down placing a load on it. You would have noticed that when releasing the clutch in neutral, it would have been quieter. This would have been better information to pass on.

 

Nothing moves in the transmission when the clutch is down or disengaged but there is a load on the release bearing. The opposite is true when the clutch is released... transmission gears are spinning (even in neutral) and release bearing is not.

 

Clutch down=noise = release bearing (possibly pilot bushing)

Clutch up = transmission bearings or gears.

Ahhh, but it wasn't consistent I can't completely remember when the noise was happening glad it's gone tho thanks to you guys'

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On 10/6/2015 at 12:18 PM, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

The front cover bolts were not all the same length. Depending on the front cover, four of them were longer than the fifth one so if you get the bolts mixed up, that can be the trouble. Most of the front covers were thicker around the four holes and thinner around the lower hole.

I just want to add for future researchers, since I am currently in the process, my front cover had 1 long bolt and 4 shorter. Were talking only 1/8" difference so its easy to miss if you aren't paying attention. The longer bolt goes in the top left cover hole if you refer to Shacks image.

Stoffregen, can you test shifting prior to installing the transmission to tell if the rtv method worked? Can you tell if it isn't working by simply bench shifting the transmission?

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Yes, bench shifting is always a good idea. It's a better idea to test it before you glue the front cover on. Put it on dry first then test shift it.

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3 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Yes, bench shifting is always a good idea. It's a better idea to test it before you glue the front cover on. Put it on dry first then test shift it.

Crap. Too late. Fingers crossed. What feeling am I looking for to tell yay or nay

Edited by Kathos

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I don't think it's critical to have the cover off when just checking if the gears are all there. 

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You need to listen for the positive click as it goes into gear. The click is the sound of the shift collar detents snapping into position.

 

Then there's the positive clunk of the shift rods hitting the front cover. This sound may or may not be good. If the shift rods are hitting the front cover before the detents snapping into place, then you're not shifting far enough. That probably won't be a problem though.

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So I hear the click you are talking about. In every gear except 5th and reverse. I hope that's okay

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Put in 5th and turn the input spline one turn. The output should turn slightly, but noticeably, more than one turn. Reverse is.... reverse. If it does your are good to go.

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I took it out for a ride yesterday. It feels great! I noticed a little bit of whining in 5th gear that may or may not be a good thing. Now that its on the ground I may double check the transmission fluid level. It pretty much ate all of the 2 quarts I threw at it when it was on stands so maybe its got a tad too much. (Ac-delco 10-4014)
Overall it shifts awesome, both up and down. Clutch feels good. Now everything just needs fine tuning.

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2 US qts is 2.11 Liters so you're good. Just fill till it runs out the fill hole.

 

 

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