Reamed on rings: blew my gasket!

[datzenmike]

Hi Jason,

tools are a special case. Last week end with mostly my, at least ten year old, $100 Can Tire ratchet set I stripped the L20B out of my parts truck. Took it apart into pieces I could lift out. The automatic trans was light enough. The thing is, a tool worth a few bucks can do hundreds of $s worth of work (thousands over it's lifetime) so get what you can afford and don't look back. $68 seems like not much when you have the right tool when you need it. Saves money in the long run.

 

Well I went to the wreckers between showers to-day. There's a 720 with a nice Z24 engine that was brought in. Most of the crap there is towed in with little damage because the motor or transmission is cooked. This was in an accident so it was running at least. The guy quoted me $300 last week. This week I payed up any money I owed him for parts and asked again and he said $200!. So I put half down on it. He knew the lady who owned it and says it's a good runner, actually he said it was a really good running truck. I'll go bright and early Sat next, and cut the rad support off and unbolt and lift the motor and tranny (auto) out as one. Should be easier to lift out through the front.

 

BTW the L automatic (3N71B) from my parts ruck looks identical to the (L4N71B) auto from a Maxima that have. The Maxima one has a shorter tailstock to allow for the extra torque converter lock out mechanism just ahead of the main body, and keeps it the same length. The Maxima's had an L24 engine so an 'L' type bell but it looks like it just bolts onto the auto body. It appears that a Z bell could be bolted on if I want. Maybe I'll save the auto for when I get older.

 

Been looking at an '80?, not sure, has square single headlights, 210 two door. They came with A15s (I think) and it runs. Wonder what an L20b with 5spd OR auto with over drive would run like?

[tangent]

HEY :mad::mad: :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you guys keep jumping back and forth on the DE, E, and Z blocks.... So I personally want to run the DE block because it has the oil squirters. Does the Z have squirters? It would be easier to run because it has a rear sump.... But then I would need to find out the compression ratio with the KA24E head on it. Some oil squirters matched with a good set of forged pistons would make for a great bottom end. I'm not in to big a hurry to get a motor built but mine leaks oil like a SOB so I would like to get the wheels turning at least :D

 

Frank had some forged flat tops in his KA-E block My question (a little of topic....) If you had KA24DE bottom end would the compression be super low? I know that if you put single cam pistons in a dual cam block its like 11 to 1 or something crazy..... I suck at the engine build side of datto projects.

 

So why is it you want the single cam head?? as far as compression and turbocharging goes, You are trying to avoid detonation right, why not just leave the stock DE compression ratios and just run good gas and use a good intercooler setup to cool the intake charge??

[datzenmike]

One of the reasons the DE CAN run a 9.5? compression is the fact that the oil squirters keep cylinder temperature down by cooling the pistons. Four valves = swirl/better mixture and less chance of hot spots. The DE also has a semi hemi shaped head. As for a turbo, a four valve head isn't necessary for breathing, the turbo does all the work, a three or even a two valve will work too.

Jeff if you can get me the DE cylinder head volume in CCs the compression can be worked out easily if you are using the 2.8CC dish KA24E pistons.

[Jason]

Morning Mike, good score on the Z24. Well, tools are needful things alright, learning to use them, well, that's resulting in broken off bolts etc. I needed the tap and die set to chase out bolt holes and to ream out the manifold for pipe plugs to block off the air injector holes. It's a round port stock shorty for my L20b with a round port head. Thing is, Byron had the pipe plugs and did it for me so all I have to do now is finish off the big one on the side.

[Icehouse]

So why is it you want the single cam head?? as far as compression and turbocharging goes, You are trying to avoid detonation right, why not just leave the stock DE compression ratios and just run good gas and use a good intercooler setup to cool the intake charge??

 

 

It's really just preference, I don't like the DE heads. They look funny, I don't like the 2 timing chains. They seem like they should both be dual row to me. I also don't need that much HP in my 620, if I got 250whp I would be more than happy. The single cam should be fine for that kinda reliable power. It will be a while before I even start the engine build, I was just curious about the parts interchange mostly. So have you decided what engine you are going with?

[datzenmike]

Morning jason, yeah I have SO much Z stuff around the house, literally around the house. My parts truck can now be towed away so I have access to the back yard again, I'm getting my dad's old 30,000Km Sundance certified this week so it will be on the road at last, and my wife's old Plymouth is to be towed after I get the stereo speakers out of it. My wife has a company car but we needed the truck for all personal use, so now i can do some work on it that will require it to be disabled.

 

If the Z24 works out I'll switch my ported head onto it. And then the EFI. If it's not so good but just ok, I'll do a rebuild on my other block this winter and have it for next year. That'll spread the cost out.

 

You know how the Z engines are supposed to have weak valve springs and don't rev to 6K? I've compared the Z and L valve springs and they look the same! I don't think it's weak springs, it's the fact that the Z valve stems are much longer and the flared end below the face is thicker. Add to all this extra weight, the retainers are thicker too. Been looking at the springs on a 2.8 Chev motor, and will remove them and some others and try for something stiffer. The valves could be turned down if I can find a lathe and L series retainers could be used to to reduce weight. Would be nice if something like a 3.8 Buick V6 spring would work eh?

 

I have the choice of using the 225mm flywheel that's on the truck now or a 240mm that was on a 720 L20B. For a transmission, I have a 5spd from that '80 200sx.

 

The big one on the side? Was it for the EGR tube? Which round port head are you using? My truck has round port, but with those liners and air injection tubes. They're closed off and I removed one and plugged the hole, but the others are too difficult to get at with the intake and carb on. The air tubes are quite long and with the liners, really block the ports I think.

 

Hey happy Fathers day Jason! My son (25 where did the time go?) is taking me to the Qualicum Beach car show to-day and meeting with my youngest boy for supper where he works in Comox. Any plans with your family?

[Jason]

That great Mike, big old Z24 with EFI, should pull stumps! It'd be neat if you could find different valve springs that'd work from a american motor for cheap parts, but, I don't see the disability to rev above 6K as a detriment for your application Mike. In fact, I'd think you'd want more torque and power below this limit. I'd say try the runner and see how you like it first with the carbs and then move onto swapping the head with the EFI.

 

I'd probably use the 225mm flywheel, it's plenty big and beefy and should spool up a little easier than the 240mm, matched up with your 5 speed should be pretty nice running.

 

Yah, the big one off the side is the last one to be plugged, no one I know has a tap that big so I'll just weld up the old fitting now that I've removed the tube. I'm using the W58 that was on the motor when I got it, I see no need to change the head as it all works fine. Removing the injector nozzles helps clear things up a bit and man it's a lot cleaner without all those extra lines running around.

 

Happy father's day to you also Mike! My young lady (7 years old now) got me tickets to playland, but, it's raining here so we'll go at the first sunny weekend. We've got my nephew's birthday party to go for supper at tonight and I'm going with my daughter to visit my grandma this afternoon. I'm off right now to go and cut the grass at my dad's place, that's what he wanted for father's day, we'll take him out for some seafood next week with my mom after the craziness dies down a little bit (dad's suggestion).

 

Later

[datzenmike]

That great Mike, big old Z24 with EFI, should pull stumps! It'd be neat if you could find different valve springs that'd work from a american motor for cheap parts, but, I don't see the disability to rev above 6K as a detriment for your application Mike. In fact, I'd think you'd want more torque and power below this limit. I'd say try the runner and see how you like it first with the carbs and then move onto swapping the head with the EFI.

 

I'm out to prove that the Z24 is to be reckoned with. I think it has a bit more potential hidden inside, I just want to let it out. I'll sink time and cheap parts into it but nothing too too much. The bottom end must not suffer, if it fails, I still want it to pull real hard. I couldn't agree more when you said to try the runner and see how you like it first with the carbs and then move onto swapping the head with the EFI. Thanks for the encouragements.

[Jason]

Mike, that Z24 will put out as much torque as a KA24E, it's displacement here that counts. If it wasn't so tall, I'd be tempted to try one in a 510, they can be had cheap and man, what a daily driver it'd make in a 510 with FI. Mind, with the KA24E stuff so cheap these days..... Still I'd try it if I where you!

[datzenmike]

I'm hot to do this, maybe a KA E head on it later? Na, thats just making a KA the hard way. I want a Z24E (the hard way,lol) H-m-m-m- there is a truck KA in the j/y, I got my hi vol oil pump from it.

[tangent]

It's really just preference, I don't like the DE heads. They look funny, I don't like the 2 timing chains. They seem like they should both be dual row to me. I also don't need that much HP in my 620, if I got 250whp I would be more than happy. The single cam should be fine for that kinda reliable power. It will be a while before I even start the engine build, I was just curious about the parts interchange mostly. So have you decided what engine you are going with?

 

Nope, gonna rebuild the carb in the 521 and drive it for a while, havnt even really taken it out since the brake swap.. think I'll spend some time on bodywork and keep soaking up the info..

[datzenmike]

It's really just preference, I don't like the DE heads. They look funny, I don't like the 2 timing chains. They seem like they should both be dual row to me. I also don't need that much HP in my 620, if I got 250whp I would be more than happy. The single cam should be fine for that kinda reliable power. It will be a while before I even start the engine build, I was just curious about the parts interchange mostly. So have you decided what engine you are going with?

 

This is nuts but I like the look of the KA E valve cover! Very nice. The E only has one single row chain too, doesn't it? Looks kind of puny.

[naz]

 

KA24E timing chain

[Icehouse]

Jeff if you can get me the DE cylinder head volume in CCs the compression can be worked out easily if you are using the 2.8CC dish KA24E pistons.

 

Didn't Naz say he would do it :D

 

Nope, gonna rebuild the carb in the 521 and drive it for a while, havnt even really taken it out since the brake swap.. think I'll spend some time on bodywork and keep soaking up the info..

 

Yeah soaking up info is the cheap way to do it right the first time :D

 

This is nuts but I like the look of the KA E valve cover! Very nice. The E only has one single row chain too, doesn't it? Looks kind of puny.

 

I don't think you have to worry about the look of the valve cover in your truck.... Who can see it way up there anyways :D

 

Its the 2 chains that bothers me. I wouldn't worry as much on a rebuild but for the "low milage", "ready" for a 510 or what ever datsun worries me. How can every motor for sale be low milage?

[datsunaholic]

Hey, if you're worried about "Low Mile" engines I've got a L20B I'd sell- "only" 310,000 miles.

 

More miles means more money, right? So if a 1500 mile L20B sells for $1500, a 310,000 miler should get me $310,000?

 

What? It doesn't work that way?

[naz]

The chains are pretty unlikely to ever break in normal operation unless the thing is run out of oil and one of the hydraulic tensioners collapses and it jumps a gear which is still hard but possible. Usually chains will stretch over time and start to wear the sprockets and guides they ride on and start rattling loudly. The KA24E has only one main cam to drive and a very heavy chain(which is nicely one of the most efficient means of energy transfer you can get). The KA24DE has 2 cams to drive and 2 chains one double and the one single the double is run across the section that is 1:1 ratio which would be the hardest on the chain itself, but single chain has the advantage of some gearing to help a with mechanical advantage. I personally can't think how one would be that much more reliable over the other. I would just vote go with whats cheap and or available and not worry about which motor you have since they are both good motors. Anyways how many people on this forum have busted a chain on motor? I would love to see a count on this. If the chain is worn out then usually number of other pieces are worn out as well. :D

[Icehouse]

I agree buddy :D I have seen a few busted chain motors at different performance shops. Ones they pull for motor swaps, once you see the owner its obvious how the chain broke. Original owner drives it 250,000 or so miles, sells it 17 year old kid buys it. 17 year old kid revs the shit out of it..... chain makes bad noises for months, kid doesn't care, engine blows, parents buy SR.... You get smoked in a race against a parent powered s13 with 17 year old dump ass driving :D

 

 

This does not mean all 16 or 17 year old kids are dump asses. I've rode with Dillon.... If he had a car with a bad timing chain it would last for years with him driving :D haha Sorry to pic on your age group buddy, I know you know who I'm talking about though.....

[71-521]

If he had a car with a bad timing chain it would last for years with him driving :D

I doubt that it would last for years...he's smart enough to replace it quickly just to get rid of the noise!;)

[datzenmike]

OK... reality check for mike. Thanks Jason, there was a good running Z24 came in to the wreckers here. They wanted $300 for it (crunched front end) I laughed. Well, another $100 for the mains and another $70 for the rods... over $500 total, just have to keep saying it untill ....

 

A KA also came in but would cost as much plus they've been done before. Have my heart set on building a Z24E. The KA pistons would give 9.2 c/r

 

Well the story so far... Got the Z24 in an '84 for $200, put half down. Went up last w/end with a cut off saw (looks like a chain saw with a metal cutting disc on her) and trimmed away the front rad support. Unbolted and unhooked all wires and mounts for the block and tranny. It's an auto so easier to pull together and split when it's out. Got it all ready by 11:30 Sat morn and they couldn't pull it out of the shell because the guy who works the loader wasn't in, and nobody wanted to try starting the damn thing.

 

Have to wait till next w/end, although they said they would pull it for me during the week.

 

Went home and applied the cutter to my parts truck. Got some pieces to help my long bed into a short bed conversion. And a 'little' something else that I might try.

[Icehouse]

Sounds like me... Little by little.... the 10 step way :D

[datzenmike]

Ice, there's a big difference between us! You get five steps done per day! I just mutter to myself. The up side is I can mutter here and it helps me keep going. lol

 

Gotta pull the drive shaft off the parts truck so it can be scrapped this week. Finally got my dad's '90 Sundance with 21,000 MILES on it, on the road, so now my truck can be worked on. Still have to rig a tripod for lifting the engine out and in. The hood on my truck is chest high, so it has to lift quite a long way vertical to clear the rad.

 

The Z24 is an automatic, so will put my L20B 225mm flywheel on it. I have a 240mm from an '80 720 4X4 but I know the old one works OK. Have to get the 720 P/S hoses and steel lines yet.

 

More later....

[Bleach]

aren't you supposed to replace the timing chain with every oil change? ? :D

[Icehouse]

Ice, there's a big difference between us! You get five steps done per day! I just mutter to myself. The up side is I can mutter here and it helps me keep going. lol

 

Gotta pull the drive shaft off the parts truck so it can be scrapped this week. Finally got my dad's '90 Sundance with 21,000 MILES on it, on the road, so now my truck can be worked on. Still have to rig a tripod for lifting the engine out and in. The hood on my truck is chest high, so it has to lift quite a long way vertical to clear the rad.

 

The Z24 is an automatic, so will put my L20B 225mm flywheel on it. I have a 240mm from an '80 720 4X4 but I know the old one works OK. Have to get the 720 P/S hoses and steel lines yet.

 

More later....

 

I do alright.... Its the getting to my project that is tuff.... :D You do a way better job of posting your projects though :)

[datzenmike]

I do alright.... Its the getting to my project that is tuff.... :D You do a way better job of posting your projects though :)

 

Saying "I do alright" is like saying that Jessica Alba is only "nice looking" or that Gong Li is just "a woman". You have a kack for understatement. lol

[datzenmike]

Well the old '78 parts truck is gone. I left work early and went to the yard to get my Z24 as it's closed on long w/ends and I forgot. Some asshole pulled the oil pump off of it but didn't take it. What was weird was that it's a high volume pump like those on the KAs. Some one has also taken the carb, the starter and the alt. but I have lots of extras so its just less stuff to take off anyway. The plan is to take it out with the auto tranny and split it later (much easier out)

 

We loaded it and I took it home and started pulling the tranny which I'll return as I don't want it. It's not part of the deal and if you saw the brownish red crap that drained out of it you wouldn't either! I pulled the exhaust pipe off and there was no carbon at all inside the manifold. The block has the original grey/blue paint with a light dusting of dirt on it, no black oily dirt a half inch thick on it.

 

Now here's the best part. The truck was an '84 720 w/Z24 carb engine. When I removed the tranny, painted on the auto flywheel was...

 

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/IMG_0175.jpg[/img]"]

 

Wooo Hoo!!!

I now have an '88 Z24i motor!!!!!!! Maybe this is why it had the high volume oil pump. The Z24i was a throttle body injection motor but the '84 carb and intake was put on it when it was swapped. There is even intake bolts missing! This motor is four years newer than I thought and was FI and automatic, so not too much wear 'n tear on it. Also no-one's going to swap a crappy motor into their truck, so it should run. (it was running when it was rolled)