distributorguy Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 G-DUAX, thanks for the tip on Techline. Today they gave me a huge sponsorship deal for the race truck! I get to try almost all of their products, so it looks like I'll likely be pulling the short block back apart to coat more parts than I thought! 2 Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I've even moly coated bearing inserts, cam tower journals, timing sprockets, valve guide bores, and the complete internals of oil pumps. Nice thing about pistons, being moly coated, once you wear through the coating, just re-coat :-) Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 G-daux does that process/coating mess with any engine tolerances on the parts your coating? Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 When I did my bearing inserts, they were too tight, and I had to hone them to get my clearances back. Used my dial type cylinder hone, with 600 wet or dry paper around it. Pistons, valve guides, cam journals, sprockets I don't worry about, since the coating thickness isn't much, and I'm dealing with used parts most of the time anyway. Oh, and don't abrasive blast the bearing inserts, the grit will imbed into the soft bearing material.... Chains can be done, but they need to be pre-run to take set, then degreased very well, soaked in the moly, baked, and then broken free, as it glues the links together. But chain life goes way up on something like a 18,000 rpm kart engine. Too much work for an L-series. Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Thanks G-daux, kind of what I thought... wish I knew before I assembled my motor I would have used that trick.... guess I will save the info for the next time.... Distributorguy how long before your runs on the salt flats?.... Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Speed Week is August 12-18th this year. Anyone on this forum is more than welcome to come visit us in the pits while we're playing with the truck. Fingers crossed that the race happens this year. They shipped out a huge box of materials for me to try including the thermal dispersant to coat the radiator, all the dry lubricants to coat rocker arms, the cam, oil pump internals, etc... We're having a difficult time finding room for ballast in the truck. Experimenting last night, we found we need about 600 lbs at the front of the box to get a 25/25/25/25 balance with a variance from high to low of 11 lbs. All ballast is supposed to be forward of the rear axle for safety. Maybe we can squeeze some steel solids on top of the frame, under the box. Still a high center of gravity but lower than in the box floor. We need to get this thing back up on the hoist, but my hoist is not in the heated shop. Ughhhh Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Inside the doors? Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 We're trying to offset weight to the rear. We're at 53/47 F/R without that 600 lbs ballast currently. The ballast needs to be bolted securely to the frame. Even if we put steel sheet on the bed floor, it needs to be bolted through the frame with solid stand-offs. That's where this gets simply time consuming coming up with a safe option that the tech inspectors will like at first glance. That's the real key. Safety first, balance second. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Why not use lead? It's about twice the weight of steel. You definitely want that ballast secured. Don't want to get hit in the head by a flying 40# chunk of metal. I've heard horror stories... Quote Link to comment
petercscherer Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Friend of mine filled the frame rails with lead shot in his Bonneville Speedster... Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Steel is $.50 a lb. Lead is $1.25 pound or more, although I can order a 500 lb pallet for $700 plus truck freight, plus lift gate fee (another $400). Shot is $1000 for 600 lbs. Or get 600 lbs of steel locally for $300, and I can use it later for another project when we're done racing. 1 Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted March 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 A special thank you to Tech Line Coatings for providing all these great chemicals to treat almost every internal component of our engine, and many external components! They will go to good use, and we will abuse them as hard as we can! [/url]">http://http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/distributorguy/media/Datsun%20project/F5FEABE1-58B9-4017-B7F8-6E1CE7ECE72B_zpsbyebrgiz.jpg.html'> Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 You will have the moly coat stuff for a long time if you keep it sealed. I've had mine for probably 5 years, and I doubt the level has went down an inch. I did put a couple of 1/2" steel balls in mine to mix the stuff up by shaking, as the moly tends to settle out. 1 Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Got a little more work done over the last couple days. Sprayed some of the Tech Line Coatings on the head, valves, intake manifolds, and got a solid start building a box cover. The cover has to be flush with the rails, no exceptions. [/url]">http:// [/url]">http://http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/distributorguy/media/Datsun%20project/419B82C6-BECC-4DA2-B79C-A647B1BB1AF5_zpsxdcfx2sr.jpg.html'> 2 Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 Since Tech Line Coatings sponsored us, I disassembled the engine, cleaned off the pistons, blasted them, and coated the tops with ceramic CBX, the skirts with a thermal barrier lubricant, and the interior with a thermal dispersant that sheds oil quickly. [/url]">http:// [/url]">http://http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/distributorguy/media/Datsun%20project/8C215581-1150-4D4F-97CE-D3250B16E208_zpsajqix0fw.jpg.html'> 1 Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted April 15, 2017 Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 Take some fine abrasive paper, and take off any of the thermal barrier that may have gotten on the side where it could possibly rub the cylinder. Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 Already done, although there was very, very little. And the CBX is all polished with an ultra-fine industrial steel wool I got from a friend who owns a Teflon applicating shop. I wish I could find out where he buys it. It doesn't "shed" like normal steel wool. The texture is more of a loose long-stranded braid. 2 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 That coating on the piston skirt will wear off eventually, but for the short period of time it remains, it does help a lot. You can also use it to add some life to worn pistons or loose bores. Of course this is only for the truly cheap at heart. Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 :thumbup: I'll be tearing down the motor every year after Bonneville, so at that point I can re-coat if needed or replace or ??? My goal is simply to reduce friction enough to make a difference. Between a proper oil choice, coatings, bore finish, ring sizes, bearing widths, rotating mass, it all matters. The build rate of the skirt coating is ultra-thin. I think about 20 layers would equal a wet coat of the ceramic on the piston top. I wouldn't doubt if it was worn through by the time we finish racing this year. But the point is that its sacrificial, instead of sacrificing metal. With the exception of the ring lands and the wrist pin bore, the entire piston has beneficial coatings. I also used the "special" additives for breaking in the rings and the dry film lube on the bore. They probably should have been used separately, but WTH. Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted April 18, 2017 Report Share Posted April 18, 2017 Running a single gapless compression ring reduces drag considerably. The 20,000 rpm F1 engines of yesteryear (before all the green regen BS) used only one ring period, not even an oil ring. Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 I was wondering how much pressure loss there would be if I switched over to a gapless top ring and eliminated the 2nd ring, still run a low tension oil ring. In terms of surface area of drag, it would be reduced by half. This is something I'd wait to try until after I can at least get a scuff on the cylinder walls. Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Not much to add, other than a new Kam-lock harness from Stroud Safety. Thank you Bob!!! [/url]">http://http://s1148.photobucket.com/user/distributorguy/media/Datsun%20project/40A2076E-EECE-4560-B2C7-08EE5B2D952F_zpstbhwrrfu.jpg.html'> Quote Link to comment
G-Duax Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 As far as pressure loss with gapless rings, when doing something on my Toyota, and I need to turn the crank for some reason. it's a real pain in the a$$ due to the gapless rings. Goes like this: Breaker bar & socket on crank snout, turn crank, release pressure, crank turns back to where it was. Turn crank again, hold in position for 60 seconds, release pressure, again crank turns back..... Go fetch #1 son, have him turn crank & hold the damn thing while I plug the distributor, of check valve clearance, or what ever. But they need to go in the engine before firing it, so the hone roughness on the cylinder seats them in properly. Putting them on a already run bore won't give you that result. Quote Link to comment
distributorguy Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 My past experience with Total Seal was total crap. To be honest, they never seated, using good break-in oil, a fresh hone done properly, and a legitimate break-in. Never saw better than 7% leakage past the rings. I've been using JE's supplied Hellfire rings with their pistons ever since, with good luck. They seem to not only seal better, but they don't pump oil and they hold up to extreme boost. They also work on simple 9:1 street motors. Other guys tell me to use a gapless 2nd ring and you don't get the oil pumping. Makes me think you could skip the 1st ring...???? I think some of the new ring break-in additives could do a better job at breaking in the Total Seal rings, but I'm not brave enough to get burned a 2nd time. Yet. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I always defer to the piston manufacturer for ring recommendations. (performance forged pistons) Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.