720inOlyWa Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 First of all, as beholding as I am to Ratsun for so many things, one has to be careful when taking advice from anywhere online... just sayin’... I made a chunk of wood up to retain tension against the tensioner to hold the timing chain in place as I replaced the head and head gasket. The dimensions given in the forum yielded a piece of wood that didn’t really drive down into the throat of the chain gap very far, but I wedged it in there as good as I could. Now, I figure those dimensions must have been for another motor, not my Z24. So I have it all back together now and I am ready to fit the sprocket back n the cam. But I can’t lift it high enough up to slide back on the cam. I am sure this has happened many times, to many amateurs like me. So what is the fix? How do I get enough slack to lift the sprocket again? Yes, I made a narrower wedge and drove it into the throat, and I even wedged against it with the blade of a big screwdriver. No dice. So I stopped to see what you think I should do... Quote Link to comment
ericsb210 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You might wait for other advice, but in the past: line up timing marks, put cam gear topside into chain, turn crank towards slack side (opposite of normal rotation) we are talking just a frog hair of crank movement with a little oomph the cam gear should slip on. This usually works. After cam gear on insure timing marks are still lined up than torque to spec. The right way would be to remove timing cover install camshaft sprocket along with chain, line up timing marks, then lastly install tension-er, replace timing cover 1 Quote Link to comment
dr.feltersnatch Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Even when done right it barely slips back on. If it slips down even a little your screwed. Of it did slip your going to have to pull the timing cover. If the little foot popped out it usually screws up the spring. 1 Quote Link to comment
Dolomite Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The wedge method is shit in my book, never worked for me. If the chain slips a red cunt hair, the timing cover has to come off. Quote Link to comment
dr.feltersnatch Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 What method do you suggest? Quote Link to comment
720inOlyWa Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Damn. I sure didn’t want to pull that cover... Quote Link to comment
ericsb210 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Did the chain ever loose tension? Did u put it at TDC on #1 cyl before starting? If you did n the tension stayed tight on the chain. Look down the timing chain can you see if the tensioner is still in place. You can do as I suggested. Quote Link to comment
Draker Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 There is a tool for that. Under $15 shipped 1 Quote Link to comment
uberkevin Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The wedge method is shit in my book, never worked for me. If the chain slips a red cunt hair, the timing cover has to come off. I'd like to know what you use to keep the tension. 1 Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 It takes a little bit of muscling and patience, but if you can get the sprocket onto the dowel, you should be able to work it onto the cam.. assuming your wedge held the tensioner in. Quote Link to comment
720inOlyWa Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I had known about that tool, I think I would have been fine. I suppose it is no good once the tension has been lost though. Draker, where do I order mine? Quote Link to comment
dr.feltersnatch Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 http://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-648831-Nissan-Timing-Holding/dp/B0002Q8TV4 1 Quote Link to comment
Guest Rick-rat Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The wedge method is shit in my book, never worked for me. If the chain slips a red cunt hair, the timing cover has to come off. The wedge is only meant to keep the tensioner in place, as long as you don't turn the crank over it doesn't matter if the chain slips a little. As long as the crank and cam are in the right position, chain will work as it is supposed to Quote Link to comment
Dolomite Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'd like to know what you use to keep the tension. My old man made a tool out a piece of high density nylon. I hope he remembers how he made it because I'm gonna need it before too long. I guess I kinda mis spoke, I meant a wooden wedge sucks. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just use a chunk of wood cut thin enough to wedge down between the chain, if you lost the tensioner then it is over with, you are going to have to remove the front cover, if the head is torqued down, then your also going to have to drop the front of the oilpan a little also, it sucks, but that is the way it is if the chain tensioner comes out of it's hole, once the wood block or whatever you are using is in, you cannot move the crank till it's all back together. I had one slip on my U20 roaster engine when I had the head off, it sucked. This is what my wedge looks like installed in my LZ23 when I blew a headgasket. 1 Quote Link to comment
720inOlyWa Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 My wooden wedge was far more elegant than waynos version and it still did bupkiss for me. I’d sure like to watch somebody make that work, because it didn’t come close for me.It is also near impossible to juggle the sprocket off or on without messing with the wood and losing tension. I ordered the tapered nylon tool for future use, but it looks like this time, I am screwed. I wonder if I can see the tensioner piston status with a good flashlight. Well, time to go find out... Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 This link posted is for an L series engine....not a Z http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B0002Q8TV4 Difference between the two.... One can use the Z wedge on an L series, which will sit below the cam sprocket (out of the way) after install. L series..... LZ Z series.....wedge also sitting below sprocket after install. My dimensions were similar to the Z wedge posted above.......but......I made mine 5 inches long/5/8 thick/top-1 1/4 tapering down to 3/4" Never failed 2 Quote Link to comment
john510 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ive used a piece of garden hose folded in half and it works pretty good,no worry of splinters dropping into the motor. Quote Link to comment
Nuclear Water Boy Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 When I got caught in those tensioner won't go back in because it popped outward further, I simply would raise the chain in one hand applying tension and with a long screw driver I'd prop it on top of the tensioned. Dropping and applying pressure with the chain I'd push on the top of the tensioner with the screw driver. It takes some finesse but it can be slipped back in. I once had a friend bump the crank pulley by hand back and forth just a tiny bit to get it back in. I actually got a tensioner back in that had completely popped out but the spring was still in the block and in the back inside of the tensioners guide. Make sure you have the wedge ready to go because as soon as the tensioner is in pop that wedge into position. You may find the chain is now out of sync with the cam but you can rotate the crank pulley a bit at a time holding the chain keeping a bit of tension with the wedge in place. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment
Lockleaf Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I snuck a flat head through one of the holes in the cam gear and really carefully pried against the head to get the gear into position and carefully tapped it on. I had a friend helping align as I pried. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I use a large flathead screwdriver handle as the block, it just has to jam the chain together so it doesn't move. Plastic handle won't hurt anything. Then just the screwdriver tip sticks up, it's not much in the way. If all is correct, it may still be annoying to get the cam sprocket on the cam front. In which case, take another big flathead or prybar, go through hole in the cam gear and leverage it against the front cam tower boss. You won't need much pressure, just enough to slip it into the hole. Push the screwdriver up, the gear raises a smidge and slips right onto the cam face. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I use a long handle screwdriver too, but I've also had good luck usign a piece of heater hose with a piece of steel stuffed in the end. This brings me back to my "cut the tensioner spring" topic. I always cut the spring when I have the front of the motor apart. It will never pop out again. Quote Link to comment
Three B's Racing Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I use a long handle screwdriver too, but I've also had good luck usign a piece of heater hose with a piece of steel stuffed in the end. This brings me back to my "cut the tensioner spring" topic. I always cut the spring when I have the front of the motor apart. It will never pop out again. But if you cut the spring, the tensioner won't last as long right? Because as the chain wears the tensioners surface and you have a shorter less psi spring won't it start to rattle? I know, oil pressure is what keeps tension on the tensioner and chain but oil pressure is only part of the equation as that springs length=pressure to also help to keep the correct amount of pressure on the chain as the tensioners face starts to wear otherwise the chain will push the tensioner in and out to easily possibly causing a rattle not to mention diffusing cam timing. Quote Link to comment
Three B's Racing Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 But if you cut the spring, the tensioner won't last as long right? Because as the chain wears the tensioners surface and you have a shorter less psi spring won't it start to rattle? I know, oil pressure is what keeps tension on the tensioner and chain but oil pressure is only part of the equation as that springs length=pressure to also help to keep the correct amount of pressure on the chain as the tensioners face starts to wear otherwise the chain will push the tensioner in and out to easily possibly causing a rattle not to mention diffusing cam timing. They make a tensioner setup with a nifty little "J" hook on it designed to hold the tensioner back off the chain while doing head gaskets. Don't remember who makes them but they are out there. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 NISMO, Datsun Comp, Nissan Motorsports used to be where you could get those. I don't think they are available anymore. Quote Link to comment
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