720 4x4 suspension swap?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

So back to the topic in hand. Why not just solid axle the truck? It's really not that much work and it doesn't have to be "redneck" when you're done. Use a stock Toyota axle (which you can grab for  a couple hundred bucks) make sure it has the right gears, do some homework before you start cutting and take good measurements.

 

There are a couple areas that can be problematic.

 

Leaf springs and shackles - This may take some time to sort out if you don't want a truck that is too tall. In my opinion, anything more than 4 inches of lift is unnecessary and can be down right stupid.

 

Steering - High steer is a cheap upgrade now days, but sometimes getting it to fit without interference is time consuming. Also making sure the ratio between the steering box and the steering arms is vital. If you're using a Nissan box, you may have some homework to do to figure out what length steering arms and pitman arm to use.

 

Caster vs pinion angle - Typically 4 to 7 degrees caster is desired, but sometimes is hard to achieve and maintain a good pinion angle. A sky high truck with a single transfer case and tons of travel may have a driveline angle so steep that the u-joints would bind and break. A double transfer case helps alleviate this problem as it lengthens the front shaft. Keeping the truck relatively low helps also. Using a high pinion diff from a FJ80 is a huge step in the right direction. And you can always have a custom axle housing built to any spec you want or you can have your axle "cut and turned" to locate the pinion angle any where you want it.

 

Those are the main hurdles.

 

Some people may suggest a Dana 44 (or Dana 30 or GM 8.5"). Stay away from those axles. The balljoints they use tend to fail quite frequently. Also, stay away from "full width" axles. Unless you are building a full-on crawler, you just don't need them and they look totally funky. I'm not saying this is a bad option, but to build a full width axle truck, a lot of money goes into making it nice and un-redneck.

[Thisolddatsun]

So back to the topic in hand. Why not just solid axle the truck? It's really not that much work and it doesn't have to be "redneck" when you're done. Use a stock Toyota axle (which you can grab for a couple hundred bucks) make sure it has the right gears, do some homework before you start cutting and take good measurements.

 

There are a couple areas that can be problematic.

 

Leaf springs and shackles - This may take some time to sort out if you don't want a truck that is too tall. In my opinion, anything more than 4 inches of lift is unnecessary and can be down right stupid.

 

Steering - High steer is a cheap upgrade now days, but sometimes getting it to fit without interference is time consuming. Also making sure the ratio between the steering box and the steering arms is vital. If you're using a Nissan box, you may have some homework to do to figure out what length steering arms and pitman arm to use.

 

Caster vs pinion angle - Typically 4 to 7 degrees caster is desired, but sometimes is hard to achieve and maintain a good pinion angle. A sky high truck with a single transfer case and tons of travel may have a driveline angle so steep that the u-joints would bind and break. A double transfer case helps alleviate this problem as it lengthens the front shaft. Keeping the truck relatively low helps also. Using a high pinion diff from a FJ80 is a huge step in the right direction. And you can always have a custom axle housing built to any spec you want or you can have your axle "cut and turned" to locate the pinion angle any where you want it.

 

Those are the main hurdles.

 

Some people may suggest a Dana 44 (or Dana 30 or GM 8.5"). Stay away from those axles. The balljoints they use tend to fail quite frequently. Also, stay away from "full width" axles. Unless you are building a full-on crawler, you just don't need them and they look totally funky. I'm not saying this is a bad option, but to build a full width axle truck, a lot of money goes into making it nice and un-redneck.

I have been thinking about it I just need another vehicle to drive while I do it. And I figured I would do a toyota back axle as well for gear sets and lockers/lsd

Maybe a nice garage and someone willing to lend a helping hand so I can do it right the first time. My dads 80 long bed is sitting on 1/2 ton chevy axles and its falling off them cause my grandpa and him did a redneck solid axle on it. I would love to fix it all up drop a motor in it and get it all set up so he can crawl with it again. But I was really thinking it would be the easiest route with toyota axles for a SAS. Just want to do it right the first time through so its not sitting Falling off its axles cause i cant fix it or did it redneck and destroy the whole truck. Would like to do 4 or 5 link on it not really big on big lifts would rather keep it low with big tires. I was thinking 33s to start I had 31s and liked them but they were bald and dying. I think 33s would put it at a decent height + decent ground clearance. Atleast to start.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Well I would never waste the time and money to link a stock Toyota axle housing because they are too narrow for that mindset. And to build a custom housing opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. To build a custom axle costs $3500 MINIMUM!!! I've built them costing as much as $7200 before, yes that's a Toyota axle.

 

So to 3 or 4 link a truck (I would only 3 link the front and keep leafs in the rear, really it's all most people need) and build a custom axle, you are now SERIOUSLY committed. You'll be in it for at least $5K in parts alone.

 

Leaf spring it using a stock(ish) Toyota axle and be done for under $1500.

[Thisolddatsun]

Well I would never waste the time and money to link a stock Toyota axle housing because they are too narrow for that mindset. And to build a custom housing opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. To build a custom axle costs $3500 MINIMUM!!! I've built them costing as much as $7200 before, yes that's a Toyota axle.

 

So to 3 or 4 link a truck (I would only 3 link the front and keep leafs in the rear, really it's all most people need) and build a custom axle, you are now SERIOUSLY committed. You'll be in it for at least $5K in parts alone.

 

Leaf spring it using a stock(ish) Toyota axle and be done for under $1500.

I suppose that's a good point. Have you seen yhe core 44 axle? Its like the size of a dana 44 but has the strength of a dana 60 or something. I read about it in a article in fourwheeler or some magazine like that. I know a guy that just did a SAS on his toyota with a stock toyota front. Might see if hed be willing to help he really likes the datsun. I just wanted to see how long I could keep it ifs but I dont want to start putting money into it if I am just going to do a frame swap or Solid axle in the future.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

An axle swap is easier than a frame swap.

 

I don't know that I've seen a "core" D44. If it doesn't have kingpin D60 outers, it's not as strong as a D60.

 

The D60 axle is a good option too, but they are big and heavy and the diff has a hard time clearing the oil pan when you're trying to keep it low.

 

And that brings up another good point. Keep it low and cut the fenders if needed. If you have 4" of uptravel (bump) that is plenty. A low center of gravity is way more tractable on and off road plus you can drive harder because you're not worrying about flopping it on it's side. I tell all my customers here that building a tall truck is easy. The real challenge is building a low truck that works well.

[Lockleaf]

If you want to keep it in the family, you can run an hb233 both front and rear. The rear from a pathfinder is already 4 link plus panhard bar, so you can take the links and match the suspension geometry when you put it under your truck. For the front, the link below is a company that sells an hb233 front axle housing that uses chevy knuckles (same lug pattern).

 

Most offroad guys consider the hb233 as a step above dana 44, but not quite as nice as Dana 60. There are some great gear ratios available, many of these are factory lsd, and they are cheap in junkyards and easily available there too. Plus it helps keep the axle width a little narrower and more under the truck.

 

https://ruggedrocksoffroad.com/nissan-h233b-front-axle-housing-by-diamond-axle-p-36077.html

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Wow, that axle is cool. D60 outers with a Nissan center section. That would easily be a $5000 front axle after it was built. But why spend all that money and still have a low pinion enter section? And one that NOBODY is going to have trail spares for. I would run a Ford 9" high pinion center if you're worried about strentgh. But really though, an FJ80 high pinion diff is plenty strong.

[Thisolddatsun]

An axle swap is easier than a frame swap.

 

I don't know that I've seen a "core" D44. If it doesn't have kingpin D60 outers, it's not as strong as a D60.

 

The D60 axle is a good option too, but they are big and heavy and the diff has a hard time clearing the oil pan when you're trying to keep it low.

 

And that brings up another good point. Keep it low and cut the fenders if needed. If you have 4" of uptravel (bump) that is plenty. A low center of gravity is way more tractable on and off road plus you can drive harder because you're not worrying about flopping it on it's side. I tell all my customers here that building a tall truck is easy. The real challenge is building a low truck that works well.

thats what I was thinking. I have a design for some custom flat fenders for my truck in my head little modification to the stock fenders itd look pretty cool. I worked at a couple gas stations and crawled all over guys who brought in their offroad toys and just designed stuff that would make it look one of a kind and keep the boxy nissan look. Just wish I had the shop to do it in.

[Lockleaf]

Youre totally right about the low pinion. It seems almost centered when I look at the axle under my r50 pathfinder. But for someone backyard building one, I think it could be done for 2500. Junk yard pathfinder axle for guts, junkyard chevy knuckles and brakes, replace basic wear parts and pay a shop to shorten axle shafts and attach u-joint yokes to them. Not race grade by any means, but I'd run it for playing. But regardless, only a hardcore Nissan guy would bother, It's true.

[Thisolddatsun]

Youre totally right about the low pinion. It seems almost centered when I look at the axle under my r50 pathfinder. But for someone backyard building one, I think it could be done for 2500. Junk yard pathfinder axle for guts, junkyard chevy knuckles and brakes, replace basic wear parts and pay a shop to shorten axle shafts and attach u-joint yokes to them. Not race grade by any means, but I'd run it for playing. But regardless, only a hardcore Nissan guy would bother, It's true.

I dont know if Im brave enough to build myself a whole custom axle I deffinatly dont have the skill or tools to do something that awesome. Haha. Be cool but Im not that much of a nissan die hard. Mostly just datsuns before it changed to nissan and this is actually my very first truck so I want to keep it and make something original. Maybe get a feature on the cover of any of the 4x4 magazines out there. I think it would be awesome.

[Lockleaf]

Yeah I'm not that hard core either

[Thisolddatsun]

Deffinatly if it was going in something that Didnt ever see road time or wouldnt be a big deal if it broke. But anything can go wrong with a back yard axle especially if your welds are bad/crooked how you preped the pieces being welded together. Be a fun story to tell But be pretry exciting when it goes.

[]2eDeYe]

 

 

Some people may suggest a Dana 44 (or Dana 30 or GM 8.5"). Stay away from those axles. The balljoints they use tend to fail quite frequently. Also, stay away from "full width" axles. Unless you are building a full-on crawler, you just don't need them and they look totally funky. I'm not saying this is a bad option, but to build a full width axle truck, a lot of money goes into making it nice and un-redneck.

 

 

I will suggest a Dana 44, in a light truck the balljoints are not that big of an issue. I flogged my welded front Dana 30 on my jeep and never had ball joint problems, broken u-joints out the ass, but the ball joints are still tight, which can't be said of the rest of the jeep. I would also suggest using one from a Jeep Wagoneer as it is marginally wider than stock (4-5" total wider than the 620 stock rear). They also have an excellent turning angle, my 4x4 can probably turn tighter than my lowered 620. You won't find a Dana 60 front that is 62" wide unless it was a custom build. Not to mention they are readily upgradable with stronger everything including the ball joints.

 

If you want to use toyota stuff I would suggest Series 80 Landcruiser axles out of a 90's 4 door. You might even score a set of factory lockers. There are also upgrades available for these axles these days. 

 

No way your finding a disc brake Nissan front axle easily in N America. :lol: 

[Thisolddatsun]

 

I will suggest a Dana 44, in a light truck the balljoints are not that big of an issue. I flogged my welded front Dana 30 on my jeep and never had ball joint problems, broken u-joints out the ass, but the ball joints are still tight, which can't be said of the rest of the jeep. I would also suggest using one from a Jeep Wagoneer as it is marginally wider than stock (4-5" total wider than the 620 stock rear). They also have an excellent turning angle, my 4x4 can probably turn tighter than my lowered 620. You won't find a Dana 60 front that is 62" wide unless it was a custom build. Not to mention they are readily upgradable with stronger everything including the ball joints.

 

If you want to use toyota stuff I would suggest Series 80 Landcruiser axles out of a 90's 4 door. You might even score a set of factory lockers. There are also upgrades available for these axles these days.

 

No way your finding a disc brake Nissan front axle easily in N America. :lol:

i looked at dana 44s forever to swap. But then I just hated jeeps. They are nice but everyone and their stupid jeep only clubs and jeeps are better than anything just pissed me off. Iv found jeep owners dont always see "respecting others projects" as a thing. I didnt like toyotas a whole lot but determined if I wanna keep my little truck a badass little truck toyota parts would be needed. And well first gen toyotas are pretty badass 2wd or 4. Almost got a 2wd one and made it real pretty.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Start gathering parts and see what you can come up with. Who knows, maybe your neighbor has a D60 kingpin axle sitting in his side yard that he wants $300 for. Maybe you can find a FJ80 high pinion diff for $300. If you start looking around now and keep an open mind, you may end up with some cool parts by the time you're ready tostart cutting.

 

I found a brand new set of five 17 x 9 Trail Ready HD forged beadlocks that were 6 lug with brand new 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers for $2000. That's about $3000 less than they cost retail. That kind of sealed the deal on the 6 lug axles.

 

Get it?

[Thisolddatsun]

Start gathering parts and see what you can come up with. Who knows, maybe your neighbor has a D60 kingpin axle sitting in his side yard that he wants $300 for. Maybe you can find a FJ80 high pinion diff for $300. If you start looking around now and keep an open mind, you may end up with some cool parts by the time you're ready tostart cutting.

 

I found a brand new set of five 17 x 9 Trail Ready HD forged beadlocks that were 6 lug with brand new 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers for $2000. That's about $3000 less than they cost retail. That kind of sealed the deal on the 6 lug axles.

 

Get it?

Yeah I look around for things all the time. The whole frame swap came up cause theres a broke down pathfinder in my front yard that my dad would sell/give me if i asked.the head froze or something like that and its all torn apart still. Figured could do my v6/frame swap all at the same time.

[Lockleaf]

Pathfinder wheelbase is about 105", kc trucks are 110", so it would need a small frame stretch or axle relocation. If you were to go that route, you can actually build some fair power it of an N/A vg. Check out the link below, it connects to a list of three or four articles building a 3.4l vg that's pretty cool. They also do done other good work to a wd21. Again maybe more hardcore than you want to build, like that axle, but hey it's still cool info.

[Thisolddatsun]

Pathfinder wheelbase is about 105", kc trucks are 110", so it would need a small frame stretch or axle relocation. If you were to go that route, you can actually build some fair power it of an N/A vg. Check out the link below, it connects to a list of three or four articles building a 3.4l vg that's pretty cool. They also do done other good work to a wd21. Again maybe more hardcore than you want to build, like that axle, but hey it's still cool info.

5inches difference in wheelbase. Just cut the tailgate off with like 2 inches cut another 5 inches off the bed and weld the 2 inch tailgate back on and vwalah 105" wheelbase 720.

Also didnt see the link.

[Lockleaf]

Huh, nice simple fix. I like it. And you didn't see the link because I apparently didn't put it in. So here it is.

 

http://www.motoiq.com/Projects/Nissan/Pathfinder.aspx

[Thisolddatsun]

Huh, nice simple fix. I like it. And you didn't see the link because I apparently didn't put it in. So here it is.

 

http://www.motoiq.com/Projects/Nissan/Pathfinder.aspx

Well you know Iv spent some time under my truck in the rear and noticed that there's a good 5+inches of bed without any frame just bumper brackets and part of my flatbed design ended up measuring the bed and if I bob it right its like a 4ft by 5ft bed. So pretty much it would be sheet metal work nice and simple. Making the line perfect and cutting straight would be the hardest part.

Anyways if I did do the solid axle I was thinking of using this

Ford shock tower (part # E5TZ-18188-A) is an easy-to-attach shock mount that can be trimmed to fit your specific application.

[harlow426@mail.com]

Im still learning but right now its mostly to go out camping and play but also driven on the road but doesnt need to go more than 50 if that. Really just looking for more info on suspension a arms and such. Cause cv axles break eventually and I cant go buy new cv axles for my year. Only 84+ plus a locker or lsd would be nice. Not sure I want to weld the gears.

I think welding the diff is a bad idea. If you manage to get enuf 'heat' to penetrate you change the hardness/temper of the base metal. If you shot pein and re-harden/anneal the gearset... welding might b satisfactory. Air locker most ideal I think....allows u to turn off when not needed.

[Thisolddatsun]

I think welding the diff is a bad idea. If you manage to get enuf 'heat' to penetrate you change the hardness/temper of the base metal. If you shot pein and re-harden/anneal the gearset... welding might b satisfactory. Air locker most ideal I think....allows u to turn off when not needed.

Iv heard lots about welding the gears and would rather not do it. And air locker would be cool but then you have to run a air line to the axle which can get caught on something and break. Also you need a air compressor as well. Mechanical locker maybe a spool/spooler is what I would like. Open diffs kinda suck.

[datzenmike]

I heard the 1980 was a one year setup.

 

The '80 (only) had the front differential on the right side, all later years were on the left. You can use '80 axles on '81-'82 if you swap side to side.

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Well you know Iv spent some time under my truck in the rear and noticed that there's a good 5+inches of bed without any frame just bumper brackets and part of my flatbed design ended up measuring the bed and if I bob it right its like a 4ft by 5ft bed. So pretty much it would be sheet metal work nice and simple. Making the line perfect and cutting straight would be the hardest part.

Anyways if I did do the solid axle I was thinking of using this

Ford shock tower (part # E5TZ-18188-A) is an easy-to-attach shock mount that can be trimmed to fit your specific application.

Those are great and only $15 each. If you're going to do a link suspension with coilovers, you need to have shock towers that can hold the weight of the truck. Like the ones I built for my '83 Toyota.

[Thisolddatsun]

Those are great and only $15 each. If you're going to do a link suspension with coilovers, you need to have shock towers that can hold the weight of the truck. Like the ones I built for my '83 Toyota.

I would love to do coilovers when I do a 3link and 4link. And I know I'll need some sort of shock tower for when I SAS the truck and itd be nice to keep it relatively low budget but do it right at the same time. Definitely considering doing the leaf spring setup because of the alignment problems you can run into with linking a DD.