racerx Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Hopefully next week's quiz doesn't involve common phrases....yep, like the finger and the moon. Link to comment
Ooph! Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 "My point is that being here inherently breaks no law. " No, you are just outright wrong. It is OK to be wrong, it is not OK to double down on it when you are wrong. They are specifically breaking at least this law: Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1) and fall under this US code: 8 U.S. Code § 1227 - Deportable aliens (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. Link to comment
paradime Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Yeah, we only use forced labor on people who break the law, like criminals... Seems like their should be some penalty for being here illegally, but it's never that cut and dried when it comes to residency and immigration law. I've witnessed decades of hollow promises and blatant inaction when it comes to protecting the border. The only thing I can take from that is the status quo works for those in power. In the puppet show, politicians dance and blame each other, but behind closed doors they're all on the same page of doing nothing. In all reality, If there's any justice to be had in building a wall, that $25 billion of our tax money should go to law abiding American workers, not Mexicans or Convict Inc. Link to comment
a.d._510_n_ok Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Black students at Parkland school express concern over greater police presence A group of black students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High said they felt 'intimidated' by the increased police presence at the predominantly white school, and what it might entail for non-white students. https://twitter.com/i/moments/979403365724585984 1 Link to comment
racerx Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 What other store would be as big as Amazon ? resistance is easy,don't buy from them....really that easy?..like trying to stop a Tsunami. Even if all of ratsuners stop using amazon that number is insignificant compared to how many people shop there. 1 Link to comment
tr8er Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 "My point is that being here inherently breaks no law. " No, you are just outright wrong. It is OK to be wrong, it is not OK to double down on it when you are wrong. They are specifically breaking at least this law: Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1) and fall under this US code: 8 U.S. Code § 1227 - Deportable aliens (1) Inadmissible at time of entry or of adjustment of status or violates status.- Once again, and I tire of the repetition, this statute does not say anything about the legality of being in the USA. It relates to getting in illegally or violating a term of status. So tell me about doubling down now. Link to comment
Dolomite Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (1) Inadmissible at time of entry or of adjustment of status or violates status.- Once again, and I tire of the repetition, this statute does not say anything about the legality of being in the USA. It relates to getting in illegally or violating a term of status. So tell me about doubling down now. Well...now you’re tripling down, all in with a pair of deuces. Black students at Parkland school express concern over greater police presenceA group of black students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High said they felt 'intimidated' by the increased police presence at the predominantly white school, and what it might entail for non-white students.https://twitter.com/i/moments/979403365724585984 Thugs gonna thug. Link to comment
racerx Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Well...now you’re tripling down, all in with a pair of deuces...you can win with a pair of dueces, better than 7 and 2 and unsuited. Thugs gonna thug. Link to comment
Dolomite Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 I was using deuce as a reference to a pile of shit, which is what tr8ers argument is. Link to comment
tr8er Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 I was using deuce as a reference to a pile of shit, which is what tr8ers argument is. Annnnd the pile of shit, while pungent, is the winning hand. Pay up or show. Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. (1) Inadmissible at time of entry or of adjustment of status or violates status.- Once again, and I tire of the repetition, this statute does not say anything about the legality of being in the USA. It relates to getting in illegally or violating a term of status. So tell me about doubling down now. Annnnd the pile of shit, while pungent, is the winning hand. Pay up or show. You are wrong. It is extremely cut and dry. From the comment by Ooph! which links to the Act I posted earlier (see below): 8 USC 1325: Improper entry by alien Text contains those laws in effect on March 29, 2018 From Title 8-ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12-IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER II-IMMIGRATION Part VIII-General Penalty Provisions "Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers..." " be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." here is the act in its entirety: Edit: Ratsun keeps breaking the link, cut and past and it comes up fine. http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=&req=%28title%3A8+USC+section%3A1325%28c%29+edition%3Aprelim%29+OR+%28granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title8+USC-section1325%28c%29%29&f=treesort&fq=&num=0&hl=false&edition=prelim http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20USC%20section:1325©%20edition:prelim)%20OR%20(granuleid:USC-prelim-title8%20USC-section1325©)&f=treesort&edition=prelim&num=0&jumpTo=true#sourcecredit 1 Link to comment
tr8er Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 That refers to ENTRY! Are you actually not comprehending the distinction between being somewhere, and crossing a boundary? Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 That refers to ENTRY! Are you actually not comprehending the distinction between being somewhere, and crossing a boundary? Obviously if they are in the USA they entered not by an immigration officer, but because your dense ass needs it spelled out exactly (3 under the statue): "attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense" See also :Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers... So if they are in the USA and they did not enter by an immigration officer they violated the law. A law that has incarceration and fines as an outcome, which would make them a criminal. Edit: also from section 1321 of the same law: Prima facie evidence Proof that the alien failed to present himself at the time and place designated by the immigration officers shall be prima facie evidence that such alien has landed in the United States at a time or place other than as designated by the immigration officers. Edit2: You do realize your are argument is literally "no one saw it happened so it didn't happen" ? They crossed the boundary when they entered. To be here they literally had to cross the boundary. So yes, being somewhere does explicitly mean they crossed a boundary. 1 Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Seems like their should be some penalty for being here illegally, but it's never that cut and dried when it comes to residency and immigration law. I've witnessed decades of hollow promises and blatant inaction when it comes to protecting the border. The only thing I can take from that is the status quo works for those in power. In the puppet show, politicians dance and blame each other, but behind closed doors they're all on the same page of doing nothing. In all reality, If there's any justice to be had in building a wall, that $25 billion of our tax money should go to law abiding American workers, not Mexicans or Convict Inc. " The only thing I can take from that is the status quo works for those in power. In the puppet show, politicians dance and blame each other, but behind closed doors they're all on the same page of doing nothing." THIS exactly^ The people in power like having a underclass that works for below prevailing wage, doesn't complain when you do horrible illegal shit to them, and that can be treated almost as a de facto slave class. Like many other illegal activities it only exists because it is a supply that fills a demand. You want to stop most illegal immigration? Heavily fine those who employ illegals, shut off the demand for underpaid labor, if the demand is greatly reduced the supply of people coming to fill that demand will decrease. So spit-balling, make a law with a $10,000 dollar a day fine per person against any company employing illegals, and have a large finders fee for reporting it. Throw in a few checks and balances to protect against misuse. Reduce the demand and you will reduce the supply. 3 Link to comment
racerx Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 The government will not deport 11 mil or so illegals or undocumented. You will hear the news that hundreds got caught by ICE but that's "FAKE News" or tokenism. It makes us feel good but in reality not even a drop in the bucket. They don't have the resources to do so and they know that they fill a gap in the employment pool and help keep the economy going. As mentioned before, the vast majority work in jobs that the vast majority of the US population will not do. Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 The government will not deport 11 mil or so illegals or undocumented. You will hear the news that hundreds got caught by ICE but that's "FAKE News" or tokenism. It makes us feel good but in reality not even a drop in the bucket. They don't have the resources to do so and they know that they fill a gap in the employment pool and help keep the economy going. As mentioned before, the vast majority work in jobs that the vast majority of the US population will not do. As I stated above remove the demand and you reduce the supply. You won't need ICE or gov't resources. Just some minor changes to the law. Also, I greatly disagree with this statement "they fill a gap in the employment pool and help keep the economy going. As mentioned before, the vast majority work in jobs that the vast majority of the US population will not do." It's not that US population won't do those jobs, its just US companies don't want to pay Americans to do those jobs. This is literally advocating for keeping illegal immigrants as a near slave class of low paid workers without the job protections Americans enjoy. This shouldn't be a "oh well that's how it is moment" this should absolutely disgust you that these people are being taken advantage of in this way. Link to comment
racerx Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 As I stated above remove the demand and you reduce the supply. You won't need ICE or gov't resources. Just some minor changes to the law. Also, I greatly disagree with this statement "they fill a gap in the employment pool and help keep the economy going. As mentioned before, the vast majority work in jobs that the vast majority of the US population will not do." It's not that US population won't do those jobs, its just US companies don't want to pay Americans to do those jobs. This is literally advocating for keeping illegal immigrants as a near slave class of low paid workers without the job protections Americans enjoy. This shouldn't be a "oh well that's how it is moment" this should absolutely disgust you that these people are being taken advantage of in this way. ...before u judge me, we came to the usa in the late 60s, and my parents had to work in the farms and canneries because they did not have any local experience. Due to their diligence and fortitude, they took night classes to improve their chances of getting better jobs and eventually they did succeed. As a young man, I also worked in the fields for only a few days picking strawberries, then later wash dishes, bus tables and did some janitorial work. Even baby sat and took care of an elderly couple. So before you make any snap judgevents, consider your statement that I should be disgusted how these people are being taken advantage of. Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 ...before u judge me, we came to the usa in the late 60s, and my parents had to work in the farms and canneries because they did not have any local experience. Due to their diligence and fortitude, they took night classes to improve their chances of getting better jobs and eventually they did succeed. As a young man, I also worked in the fields for only a few days picking strawberries, then later wash dishes, bus tables and did some janitorial work. Even baby sat and took care of an elderly couple. So before you make any snap judgevents, consider your statement that I should be disgusted how these people are being taken advantage of. Way to flip that around and completely miss the point. But to be absolutely crystal clear. I'm not judging you, I don't know you to judge you, and furthermore I just don't care. Getting back to the point: Do you think anyone working in the USA should have a minimum legal wage and protection under the law? IF yes: shouldn't we punish businesses that take advantage of workers? 2 Link to comment
Draker Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Punishing people is racist. 1 Link to comment
Draker Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Anyone catch sessions appointing an outside prosecutor? Hmm.. OIG doesn't have power to prosecute, until now. 1 Link to comment
tr8er Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Dguy, our legal system doesn't work under presumptions. So I agree, anyone not born here got here somehow. But the courts don't just pick how they think they got here to prosecute. So I feel there should be a law specifically laying out the illegality of being here without permission. There isn't. And while you repeatedly show me evidence of illegal entry, which I already knew, nothing addresses my concern. How do you prosecute someone with amnesia. Wakes up in a hospital not knowing how they got there? Do you just say, "sorry, you are illegal and now you must build a wall for us". I don't think that works. You can disagree all you want but I don't see why you would Link to comment
paradime Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Obviously if they are in the USA they entered not by an immigration officer, but because your dense ass needs it spelled out exactly (3 under the statue): "attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense" See also :Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers... So if they are in the USA and they did not enter by an immigration officer they violated the law. A law that has incarceration and fines as an outcome, which would make them a criminal. Edit: also from section 1321 of the same law: Prima facie evidence Proof that the alien failed to present himself at the time and place designated by the immigration officers shall be prima facie evidence that such alien has landed in the United States at a time or place other than as designated by the immigration officers. Edit2: You do realize your are argument is literally "no one saw it happened so it didn't happen" ? They crossed the boundary when they entered. To be here they literally had to cross the boundary. So yes, being somewhere does explicitly mean they crossed a boundary. Dguy, by your argument, if you are in possession of stolen property, that itself is enough to convict you for the theft. Mere possession, or in this case physical presence may be prima facie evidence, but it does not meet the burden of "proof" they "crossed a boundary" illegally. In fact, many foreign nationals living in the US have simply overstayed their work or travel visa. As stupid as it sounds, being an undocumented resident in the US is not a crime. No one is saying "it didn't happen", only that there has to be proof it happened. Link to comment
john510 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 That refers to ENTRY! Are you actually not comprehending the distinction between being somewhere, and crossing a boundary? Come on man,if just being here weren't illegal in some way how is it ICE,CBP,Homeland security,whoever has been allowed to arrest and deport so many ? if they aren't breaking any laws how is our government getting away with this ? Link to comment
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